You left out penalties
Lionel Messi | PSG Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Penalties
Messi - 103 (from 133 pens)
Ronaldo - 145 (from 174 pens)
Free-kicks
Messi - 58 (Scored from every 17 games)
Ronaldo - 58 (Scored from every 19.5 games)
XG (Expected Goals) since 14/15
Messi - 208.27
Ronaldo - 227.94
On that last one, Messi has scored an astonishing 32.7 more goals than expected given the relative difficulty. Ronaldo, in comparison, has scored 5.06 more goals than expected. Messi is a chronic over-performer in goal-scoring given his fewer mins played and difficulty of chances presented to him.
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The thing i like with Messi, he was able to change his playstyle (due to his age) from goalscorer to playmaker, and still keep his magic.
He had a rough last season, but now he seems acclimatized in his team, and he's doing pretty well with a ton of assists.
I don't like to compare those 2 players, but i don't see the magic in Ronaldo anymore.
He had a rough last season, but now he seems acclimatized in his team, and he's doing pretty well with a ton of assists.
I don't like to compare those 2 players, but i don't see the magic in Ronaldo anymore.
Sorry, that's League and Champions League since 09/10, hence the disparity between awards given and overall games played.
The problem is PSG's midfield 2 of Verratti & Vitinha/Ruiz/Soler. These 2 are surrounded by fullbacks who love bombing forward and a front 3 that doesn't press well. Its ok against Ligue 1 teams who are fearful of PSG's front 3 so don't press high up to win the ball but Madrid/City/Pool/Bayern would cut through PSG.
Even Spain & Barca never played Xavi-Iniesta in a midfield 2. Would never work against potential tournament winners.
Pretty pathetic rebuttal considering the stats he provided.
Messi is clearly superior.
All of this is fine except Messi has done it only by playing for Barca and nowhere else.
PSG: Its like playing for Michael Jordan's 1992 Olympic winning Dream team. This is not a test for his ability to play across multiple leagues at all. It would be like calling Ronaldo a Balon D'Or favorite for hitting 30 goals in the Portuguese League.
Argentina: He plays for a team that is guaranteed Quarter Finals even without him. Check Argentina's record in 7 Copa Americas played between 1991-2004: 2 wins, 1 final, 3 QF and 1 withdrawal (death threats in 2001). Yes he's played well but the burden on him is not as much as Ronaldo.
World Cup: Yes he rightly has the Golden Ball but that's like Ronaldo celebrating all his goals for United/Euro 2021 last year without actually leading them to any victory. Infact thats what everyone criticizes Ronaldo for during his time at Juve (despite helping them win 2 titles in 3 years).
Ronaldo has been a top performer across 3 leagues.
When he joined United, they were a clear 3rd best behind Arsenal and a new-Chelsea.
When he joined Madrid, they were a clear 2nd best behind Barca and a level below United/Milan/Barca/Pool/Chelsea in Europe.
Juve was the only top team that he joined, and even they had an ageing team.
We have to account for all of this. Its like saying Denilson was a better player than Ryan Giggs because Denilson won the World Cup or Lampard is a better box to box midfielder than Iniesta because Lampard scored more goals.
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Wait, are you counting farmers league goals?
Dude, he comes out on top even in Ronaldo's La Liga prime years. So.....
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Use all the gynmastics you like. He's ahead in every metric, almost, and even in scoring he's per minute better than Ronaldo. It is what it is. You can't change it. Stats don't lie, nor do the MOM awards. He's either the best statistically or he's the best in terms of just straight up running the game, hence the MOTM gap between them. There's just NO way around it, bruh.
In 10,000 minutes less. You cannot get around a player simply statistically being overall better having played so many minutes less. There isn't an argument in the world that can get around that. It's overkill like a pipebomb in a pine box.
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Really? I always thought these 2 were the central playmakers. With just Busquets as the nr 6. I’m probably wrong.
Let's not forget that Ronaldo is 2.5 years older. I'm not sure if Messi would have the magic in the PL at near 38 years old either.
In 150 more games. Not sure what you're not getting about this.....
Barca: They played on either side of Busquets in a team that pressed really well.
Spain: For the longest time ever the midfield was Xabi-Busquets-Xavi with Iniesta as LW/RW or Xabi/Fabregas-Senna-Xavi with Iniesta as LW/RW.
In each case there was a proper DM in a midfield 3. They never went with a Xavi-Iniesta midfield 2.
You can write whatever biased essay you want. Having watched both footballers since their teenage years through their peak and now near the end of their careers, I have no doubt whatsoever who the better footballer is and always has been; its Lionel Messi. Unequivocally and by atleast a level.
It's a horrific tackle.
The idea that anyone could pull on the ball and swing back their leg with that perfect timing to barely avoid getting hit but making it look like they did is cartoonish anyway.
Some people can't use their brains, clearly.
Messi’s style and achievements will age better than Ronaldo’s. There will always be ace goalscorers, look at Haaland now. But there’s hardly been anyone in history like Messi as good at dribbling, passing and finishing. Ronaldo gets called the greatest goal scorer of all time and Messi is still as good at that as well as the other parts of the game.
Pepe was a very good defender, but an absolute thug. Reminds me a bit like Vidic with the hardness of him in the tackle, but Vidic (whilst obviously made a mistake or two in timing) didn't tackle to hurt someone on the regular basis Pepe did.
But wrong thread for this
It’s a coward’s tackle too. Vida was the furthest thing from that
You’re downplaying it a bit here. It’s an insane amount of goals that Haaland or Messi will get nowhere near.
It's a 35 goal gap which I think isn't that big considering the numbers and matches we are talking. But I agree Ronnie won't be caught on this one.
I sometimes dream of a world in which the caf has a specific thread for all this Messi vs Ronaldo wankery and the moderators enforce the separation. Dreams are just that though.
Ronnie fans should go to the Siuuu thread, it has been quiet for a while now.
Once every few weeks, this thread will be invaded by a horde of insecure CR7 fanbois with the same pathetic arguments. Messi is superior as proven by facts and stats, now please go back to the CR7 performance thread to defend your idol’s performances
It’s a shame I never saw this guy in a different top league to La Liga which had such a skewed quality from one time being the best league in the world.
Oh well, you don’t always get what you want.
However, I just wish one of him or Ronaldo can win this years World Cup so we can stop the GOAT talk for ever.
Oh well, you don’t always get what you want.
However, I just wish one of him or Ronaldo can win this years World Cup so we can stop the GOAT talk for ever.
I don't know about the decade 2000-2010, but in the time since, small technical players, especially at City, have shown that the league has changed. Messi would have dominated in the premier league.
That’s just performing under Guardiola which is arguably to this date is still his best achievements for Barcelona (+ the ensuing succession at Enrique).
Id love to have seen Messi under managers like Mourinho, Ancelotti, Serie A managers, SAF and more.
Well, you also had David Silva playing brilliantly for many years before Guardiola arrived, but yes the examples tend to be from City who were going for that style from the beginning under different managers.
Mata was brilliant for a few seasons for Chelsea.
I honestly came here to read some thoughts about Messi’s current season
, the mods do a wank job when it comes to Messi/Ronaldo feckwiterry, I’d instantly threadban anyone braindead enough to start this nonsense in anything other than the Ronaldo v Messi thread.Well except he is right though. You are conveniently missing out the one stat which matter most there.
Preach. Genuinely sick of it.I honestly came here to read some thoughts about Messi’s current season
"Best man of my dream = Messi" - Messi fan boy
Woulda/coulda/shoulda … there is no evidence of this - it’s all in our imagination. He could just as easily have become a Fernando Torres if he got a bad injury or a Di Maria if the food/culture/playing style did not suit him … there is a huge difference between playing 4-5 games against English teams every year under stricter CL referees versus playing in England, for a team who’s philosophy may not be one you’re used to, to a packed winter schedule against teams who play direct physical football.
Perhaps if you had not detached the statement you quoted from the context I had placed it in, you wouldn't be having this meltdown.
Many players such as David Silva who one would not think of as suitable to the physicality of the premier league have actually thrived in it. Messi would have likely done the same.
Can we say for sure? Of course not. But considering his talent and his repeated withstanding of the bullying in La Liga from the likes of Ramos, it's highly likely.
I had also made one other point. The premier league is a different league from what it was in the 2000-10 decade. Many teams play possession and pressing based systems. The physical aspect was once true but is now overstated.
This whole comfort zone argument gets really tedious.
Pelé, Maradona, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Zidane, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, di Stefano, Puskas, etc. never played in the EPL either. Messi dominated La Liga in unprecedented fashion when it was the best league in the world by a landslide.
Imagine being so biased that you rather rate footballers on how well their intestines digest the English cuisine instead of their actual ability.
It's funny that fans of a certain player always try to move the discussion away from actual football. How well I adapt to culture, food or whatever has no influence on how good of a footballer I am.
Imagine being so biased that you rather rate footballers on how well their intestines digest the English cuisine instead of their actual ability.
Absolutely. It's so tiring, and have been for years.I honestly came here to read some thoughts about Messi’s current season
I think the proof lies in how long he took to adapt to French football never mind the EPL back in its prime.
We can’t just downplay doing it in different leagues because it doesn’t suit the argument for one player
If PSG dont win the champions league this season I think they will have dissappointed. Their team now reads like this generations Galacticos. They have players on the bench that would start for plenty of the big teams (Soler and Vitinha on the bench, Veratti and Ruiz starting), some of the best young and under 25 year old players around and they just continue to strengthen. But at some point they have to have the success...