he is a very good player - but he is not what we need with McT and Casemiro already in the team.
Declan Rice
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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Small club mentality, used to think he'd be alright but not anymore.
He's the cm version of Maguire. Not a bad player but not good enough for a world class club and West Hams asking price is an embarrassment.
And people wonder why the like of Real Madrid stay clear off English player if they possibly can.
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I like him as a player, he screwed himself with this contract and he's needed to move to a big team with a top coach to develop him further IMO.
Oh so they score goals in training!
The funniest part of this for me is they play against each other in training, so what does the combination of that and England not scoring in open play against actual opposition say about the English defence?!
Even Southgate agrees with this, he flat out said Maguire and Stones are tasked with progressing the ball because England doesn’t have a midfield pivot good enough to do so.
Yet we have ardent admirers here gushing about his qualities every time he had a half decent game, makes you wonder.
He's probably the next Keane, but it's not the Keane that played for Man United.
He is a decent player. Nowhere near the 100 odd million being quoted for him. He could end up going up a few gears with a better team but thats too much of a risk for the money quoted. I would probably put money on him ending up at Chelsea to be honest, since they wouldnt care about spending all that money + I think his profile would fit what Boehly would be looking for.
Kalvin Phillips
He is the definition of an average player. He is average at everything. Running is maybe the only thing he is good at.
I think we still need a long-term DM because Casemiro is old and won't be playing at a top level for long
Fabinho, Rodri (and Fernandinho before him), Tchouameni (and Casemiro before him and Xabi Alonso before Casemiro), Busquets, Kimmich. That's five sitting DMs I just listed. Veratti also plays as a sitter when PSG switches to 4-3-3. So on the contrary, just about EVERY top side has a premier sitter. Its just that the sitter is also great at progressing the ball and controlling tempo like you mentioned. I believe that Rice has those qualities as well. He is also a pretty good carrier and progressor of the ball and is better at shielding the defence than many sitters playing. He's been West Ham's midfield since he was 20. If he wasn't English, he would be higher in everybody's estimation and if he is available for a reasonable price (unlikely), we definitely should move for him.
Also excluded the likes of Bennacer, Tonali, Brozovic who have been mainstays for the last two champions of Italy.
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Seems very rigid to me, reminds me of a CB playing in midfield.
Never worth 100 million but isn't a bad player.
Never worth 100 million but isn't a bad player.
Fun fact, only 2 teams had a worse defence than West Ham in the top 10 last year. One of them being Man Utd who were having such a freak year makes that look worse as well.
The only balls that kalvin Philips has progressed are his own, all the way up and down the city bench.Kalvin Phillips
What’s so funny? Unless not being average at shielding the defence has a different meaning than actually shielding the defence then I don’t see what so funny.
Palace defence conceded 5 less goals last season, let’s buy their defence shielding DM for slightly more than Rice. 160m maybe?
Edit it gets worse. Only 5 teams conceded more shots per game than West Ham and 3 of them were relegated!
https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/2...amStatistics/England-Premier-League-2021-2022
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So can no individual performance be discussed because the entire team was poor?
People can do what they like. I’m not stopping any discussion. I’m just giving my own opinion, and for me it’s makes it harder to play well if no one else in the team is and that’s on the manager. The same applies to Foden and every other player thread people have bumped after the game last night.
Well you said its odd to focus on one player. I don't think that's happening seeing as other England players are being discussed as well.
But in anycase this is a Declan Rice thread and Declan Rice played football last night. Seems very appropriate to discuss his performance here. Otherwise, when should his performances be discussed.
Hopefully he runs his contract down at West Ham and he leaves for free. They got too greedy.
This was the only player thread that I noticed bumped when I said it’s odd.
In any case, I have done nothing except offer my own opinion. You’re talking as if I shut all conversation down. It would be nice to have that power sometimes but alas that is just beyond my capabilities.
It was. It was only Rice and Maguire - a United player.
Im the one who bumped Bellingham up because I found it weird how everyone was laughing at Rice but Bellingham seemed to have an astonishing game or something because no one said anything about him - Rice’s partner.
An English player in the PL is automatically shit but any English player playing abroad gets people weirdly wet.
I just never understand this "lets not talk about individuals" thing on a football forum. If its odd to discuss Declan Rice now when would it be appropriate.
West Ham and Moyseh will be kicking themselves. They will never get anywhere close to £100 million for him, let alone their asking price of £150 million. I this value has peaked.
I never said that ffs. You’re doing too much here. I provided a reasonable reason for why he had a poor game. Nothing more than that.
One average game against top opposition in a shite system under a shite manager and suddenly he's back to being a £30m player again. Classic Caf.
Has he played well this season?One average game against top opposition in a shite system under a shite manager and suddenly he's back to being a £30m player again. Classic Caf.
Have West Ham in general?
We're also 7 games in. I think he's done enough over the last 4 or 5 seasons to be given a bit of leeway here, people are so quick to write players off if they have a bad 7 or 8 game run.
He’s shown his qualities for long enough, and objectively been one of the league’s best midfielders for years. His stock price has dipped a bit now though, but based on history, this would probably be a good time to buy more rather than cash out.
Any interest we had in him surely died with the Casemiro signing. Rice isn't the type of midfielder we need at all now.
Is he better than Mctominay though
McTominay at his best? No.
I'd never thought I'd see the day where people said McTominay is above Rice, but he is on current form.
When both are at the top McTominay is better, fecking hell I hope ETH keeps improving the players and we might be better than shit for once
What a difference a year makes!
He showed his qualities in a 3-5-2 West Ham that barely moved over the half way line and counter attacked in the majority of their matches.
Now Moyes is trying to play more open, they're struggling and not looking anywhere near as defensively sound.
Rice was being highly overrated by sitting in a perfect situation to show off his ability to win the ball in tight spaces. Now that's changed, he's looking more like he does for England.
A good player, but nothing special at all.
This is has just become rhetoric now which, if not considered, sounds like it could be true so people go with it. Firstly, West Ham have scored plenty of goals in recent seasons, amongst the highest in the league at times, and secondly they are not a 352 team.
West Ham are struggling now, for what, 4 games or so, and it’s simplistic and way too early to determine it is down to a supposed change in approach.
Rice’s best assets are indeed defensive, which would not make him an anomaly amongst top midfielders, there are plenty of top midfielders that have built their reputation on excellent defensive work. He also carries the ball forward well and rarely loses possession.
There are no guarantees in football and I concede that a big move may or may not work out for him but I do think his body of work in the PL so far speaks for itself. He has been outstanding.
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