Again, as an Irishman we felt the wrath of colonial Britain, so I am the descendant of the victims and it does skew our national psyche I guess, but that only drives me to aid the oppressed, not disregard them because my ancestors had a rough time. If British people, many of whom I count as friends, show empathy for our past and the resulting madness we might display I see that as progress, not hypocrisy.
Gianni Infantino loses the plot (WC 2002 Edition)
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
At one point it was definitely true but that really isn't the point of what was said. Funny that's your biggest takeaway from that.
If they can prove it, then it should happen.
What about the West ?
The ignorance here is startling.
I fecking hate reading people's opinions online these days, I feel the brain cells dying by the day
Genghis Khan was a piece of shit. Why don’t we start there?
Ireland's Patron saint was most likely a slave we stole from Wales in 436 a.d. That's the end of the sympathy for the famine I suppose.
I have a feeling that final will be between Argentina and Portugal. FIFA and Qatar will make sure of that.
Tellingly silent on Charlemagne
If Qatar were fixing it they'd be mad not to be the winners. If we can't prove any corruption in the bidding we'd never prove that either, they may as well go big!
This was about European policy towards migrants, not about ME "right" to exploitation.
Fair enough.
...
As I said before, it is good to criticise violations of human rights and labour exploitation. It just sets me off when it's paired with a whitewashing other things.
it's the exact opposite.You have to go centuries back to find successorless political entities of note, and a successor state by definition accepts legal liability. You're not a successor state if you don't.
this is a football forums not another platform for woke this, political that , point scoring. I really joined here to get away from this nonsense.
My favorite football writer Ronay did this piece today and it’s quite good - apart from the paragraph where he’s obviously wrong on the beer issue and which he trivializes as “not a human right” but fails to understand the context of last minute change.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...rre-monologue-on-qatar?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...rre-monologue-on-qatar?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Ronay at his best.
But felt the need to actively come into this thread and post in it?
I don't think the title of this thread is accurate at all. He definitely hasn't lost the plot. He's just been bought by the Qataris.
Greed is the biggest sickness on this planet. Everyone seems to be on the take in every walk of life.
Greed is the biggest sickness on this planet. Everyone seems to be on the take in every walk of life.
At least Charlemagne made the hay wagons run on time.
Yeah I get where that frustration comes from.
This is a world cup with countries from all continents but yet it seems only the European/'Western' countries have actually protested and complained about workers conditions/human rights, or rather other countries' opinions aren't focused on enough in the media. Would be interesting to know why that is.
For what it's worth I'm glad anyway that Western countries have raised issues about human rights.
To take the topic back on the rails, Infantino is a cnut.
He better not speak for anyone, especially not for the workers who died for this shit.
He better not speak for anyone, especially not for the workers who died for this shit.
Best thing to do is put thread on ignore and just participate in the threads you want to.
We are just seeing parallel supranational yet unofficial governments acting like peers to real governments… point is, again, they are not of the liberal democracy kind, that’s why Infantino feels entitled to say what he says, with the support of a gay colleague at his side. What the latter is missing is that out of the protection his FIFA badge allows him in that room, he is just a gay man in Qatar and, as such, in big trouble.
The problem I have with this whole media agenda against Qatar is that it’s being propagated by people who’ve never visited let alone lived there.
For those that are ignorant, you may want to look at how Britain treats so called migrants/refugees from similar demographics in 2022. Let alone work environments, they are not allowed to work AT ALL. Some of them live in squalor. Heck look at how our own government has treated its working class? Energy prices/taxes/cost of living anyone - how have these issues been precipitated? Has anyone paid attention to the social care crisis in the NHS and how it has increased death rates in hospital? It’s not in mainstream media is it. How are these issues any different in principle?
Read about the East India company (a British company) and how it cut off workers fingers in the fabric industry - all for profit. fecking hypocrisy as far as I’m concerned and some of you are oblivious. We have absolutely no right to adopt the moral high ground.
For those that are ignorant, you may want to look at how Britain treats so called migrants/refugees from similar demographics in 2022. Let alone work environments, they are not allowed to work AT ALL. Some of them live in squalor. Heck look at how our own government has treated its working class? Energy prices/taxes/cost of living anyone - how have these issues been precipitated? Has anyone paid attention to the social care crisis in the NHS and how it has increased death rates in hospital? It’s not in mainstream media is it. How are these issues any different in principle?
Read about the East India company (a British company) and how it cut off workers fingers in the fabric industry - all for profit. fecking hypocrisy as far as I’m concerned and some of you are oblivious. We have absolutely no right to adopt the moral high ground.
I agree.
That's why we should do whatever the feck we want now, because no one will give a toss 100 years from now.
The thread was created in 2016. It's also kind of hilarious how the OP actually missed out on the point it was trying to make. Who knows why it got resurrected and added 9pages of discussion to the former 10ish posts thread.
If your only concern about your responsibilities and behaviour is the thinking of people in 100 years then yes, do what you like. But that's not what I said.
I was being sarcastic.
The poster was dismissing objections to human rights abuses because people in the same geographic location did awful things 100 years ago. I said, in that context, that we cannot let things that happened 100 years ago move our moral compass.
The point is - every country has skeletons in the closet, but that is no excuse for what Qatar has done / is doing, and Infantino is a corrupt piece of shit.
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It's funny how when someone says 'you destroyed the world' and you're response is 'nobody can give a toss'. First of all you don't have to go back more than 10 years to see the last time the UK played a part in destroying a country. Secondly, it's incredibly insensitive to those effected by the 'world destroying' to say 'it happened like a 100 years ago, nobody cares, piss off already'.
I don't like to bring arguments that go that far back when debating this topic but atleast be a bit more respectful of countries and people who have been very negatively effected by colonialism less than 100 years ago and bare resentment to being taught about morality from those colonialists.
Also, about the argument of reparations. Not saying I agree with it or not, but it's funny that the UK government were still paying reparations to families of former slave owners up until this decade but the idea of paying reparations to the family of slaves and countries colonized themselves is an absolutely ridiculous notion.
Right, all their citizens too? You half wit
No, I do agree in principle. Of course "here and now" problems should be criticised and not dismissed by "you were bad too" arguments. Infantino is a moron. It's just the irrelevant bit of "it happened so long ago it doesn't matter" is funny to me and I made a small joke about it. That's all.
I am from a country occupied by a European colonial power. We destroyed nothing. We were neutral in the second war, occupied in the first.
In case there is a language problem, the point was that by the logic in the post I was answering is that that nobody is permitted to give a toss because of some heinous actions 100 years ago in the same geographic location. As if the world wars have any relevance to my objection to human rights abuses.
I didn't say what you are accusing me of in any way shape or form. I said it was an irrelevance to this discussion. But if that's the best line of argument you can come up with then plough on.
I really wasn't dismissing the holocaust. Merely saying it wasn't relevant to my objections to Qatar today.
This line seems to have caused people problems. " Nobody can give a toss about something because of what happened 100 years ago. " That's not my opinion just what the poster was saying. Paraphrasing stupidity.
He had to so he could use his favorite word
Got it, my bad.
Western countries are primarily the ones with governments that support human rights, worker unions and rights for gay people. This post is not very long so take it as a broad stroke because there are Asian countries that certainly do as well that are in the wc. Fact of the matter is that while most citizens in every nation under the sun DO support these things, their governments do not.
France and Germany are the countries that go the farthest, with large social movements taking action. For example several large French cities will not broadcast their games in the public squares.
Or my awful command of the language? Lets call it quits
Who's the ISIS successor then?
Didn't realize you were from a colonized country I think you mentioned UK before in our previous discussions, I can apologize for that.
You should know, or rather you're having these arguments with so many people you might forget specific ones
, I haven't used the line of colonialism for my arguments against the criticism of this WC. It's always been revolved around the lack of same criticism for Russia, who were a far worse country globally than Qatar are now. But those discussions have been done and repeated before so no need to get into it again.