Foreign secretary advice to LGBT fans.... Be respectful

[Doracle]

Yep, all the nations who were going to wear them have backed down.

Statement says they wrote to fifa in September and received no response.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

And now we suddenly have a Fifa behaving like the corrupt authoritarian country it sold it's event to and instead of adhering to rules every one agrees on have fifa behaving like the dictators they mingle with. At some point it becomes too much to take for anyone with self respect.

Yes.

It would be a blow to more than the LGBT+ case if England and the others back down on this.

FIFA are corrupt scum and during the last days they've practically flaunted their true nature in everyone's faces. Has to have some consequences now. This is about national self respect. Like I've said before, if the national FAs don't have the balls or the authority to stand up to them, the governments of the countries involved should do it for them.

You can't keep preaching about keeping "politics" out of football whilst at the same time blatantly bending over for an authoritarian state that has lined your pockets. It's feckin' disgusting.

 

[2mufc0]

Did the Qatar captain wear the Palestine armband yesterday? Im sure I read that somewhere.

No he didn't, there was some fake news before the game he would. Wearing anything Palestine associated is a big no no in football.

 

[Smores]

I'm not really sure why Fifa are being so submissive here. Fifa have full control on this decision and Qatar can't do shit about it.

Another wad of money in someone's bank account no doubt.

 

[Abizzz]

Kane will now not wear it according to SKY

So they crumble under the tremendous weight of a yellow card? Clowns.

As strongly as I feel about this I can't blame him or the other players. It effectively would mean sitting out the 3rd group stage game.

Taking part in world cups is what we all dream of playing as kids, and given they never had that dream buried like the rest of us they probably still do.

 

[GreenFieldsGoldenBarley]

They still sign up to rules and laws. And have to follow the process. Stupid to think otherwise.

It happens in all sport.

Weird how you don't have an issue with Qatar backing out of agreements unilaterally and randomly changing their policies a day before the tournament, but you do have an issue with people protesting laws as a matter of conscience because 'they have to follow the process'.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Kane will now not wear it according to SKY

Great way to send a message. “We’ll only do it if it doesn’t inconvenience us”.

 

[BD]

Spineless cnuts

 

[The Boy]

The FA have given in ... utterly pathetic

 

[hasanejaz88]

So the things listed here, under "persecution", "discrimination in the constitution", "blasphemy laws", "forced conversions", "forced displacements" and "Muslim extremist violence against Christians"? They aren't true?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Pakistan#Persecution

The guy said they are killed by the state for just being Christians. As if the state is rounding up Christians and killing them and Christians are having to hide their identify. Oh and also said Muslim countries as if it's happening everywhere, certainly doesn't happen in Qatar. Absolutely ridiculous thing to say. Should I say Muslims are killed in Christian countries given the attacks that have happened against them like the NZ terrorist attack?

I absolutely agree that our treatment of minorities in Pakistan is not good, they can be discriminated against and there have been attacks against their community by terrorist organizations. But to claim that the government is killing them is insulting to me to think that people believe this hate speech.

Like I said, there are Christian communities in big cities like Karachi, where some of the best schools are run by Christians and a lot of Christian students go to. It's not perfect ofcourse but that was an extreme statement full of hate for Muslims and should not be tolerated. End of.

If anything, the group that sadly actually have to hide their identify are Ahmadis, which is considered a controversial sect of Islam. They are treated horribly in society and also by the state, which says they cannot identify as Muslim.

 

[Zen86]

So much for the “using football as a vessel to change attitudes and initiate dialogue” line they’ve all been trotting out for so long.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

Kane will now not wear it according to SKY

Kane bottling it yet again? There’s a surprise.

 

[Roane]

Agree we need more than armbands but I don't see the harm in this instance. It's only a small gesture, why not let it go ahead?

It's just confusing to me. Above you say you'd like to see more done on LGBTQ issues but at the same time you seem a pretty adherent follower of the Quran. Which as you've said yourself is pretty clear on the issue in a not so favourable way.

I wouldn't normally ask these questions but given the nature of this thread and you posting here would you like to clear up what you actually believe with regards to homosexual people?

Is homosexuality immoral?

Should it be legal or illegal to be gay?

If it goes ahead it goes ahead. I'm not taking issue with that. I was just questioning if it's Qatar or FIFA who need the focus.

I was saying that for those invested in LGBTQ issues, but it could have been any issue just focussed on that as it's the focus, need to make it an all time thing. I don't like gesturing and bandwagon jumping. That's across the board.

And yes I am Muslim and the answer is a little more nuanced than people believe. Islamically sodomy is seen as a sin. The gender isn't relevant. Also in Islam things are not as simple as illegal or legal. For example drinking alcohol isn't allowed. It's a sin too. Yet people drink and have drank in the past. They are seen as bad Muslims but not beyond "redemption" forgiveness etc. The only time it becomes "illegal" is openly and publicly in an islamic state/country where 100% Islam is being followed.

Same with homosexuality, or sex in general. What happens between two people is between two people. Consensual obviously. Do what you want and if you are a believer it's between you and God.

Transgender is different.

Today no country has 100% Islam. You can't have bits where it suits. To do so is injustice. The rules on oppression and injustice are more powerful/relevant/worthy of attention (not sure right word). So for me personally I can dislike something whether personally or religiously but I can't be unjust or oppressive. I can dislike a concept but not an individual. I must not oppress or be unjust.

Not sure how this comes across or will be taken. I've tried to answer it

 

[BD]

It was a meek and not overly impressive action anyway (wearing 'one love' armbands), but backing down the minute Fifa mention any sort of punishment is a real kick in the teeth. It's pathetic.

 

[Slops]

Feels absolutely spineless to me. What happened to wearing it 'regardless of the punishment'.


Yesterday's game despite being pretty unspectacular actually helped to finally ignite my enthusiasm for this tournament, and I'm sure at 1pm today I'll feel the same, but between it all just seems to be reminder after reminder of just how ugly this world cup is.

 

[duffer]

Backing down because of a yellow card would be incredibly disappointing.

 

[BD]

If it goes ahead it goes ahead. I'm not taking issue with that. I was just questioning if it's Qatar or FIFA who need the focus.

I was saying that for those invested in LGBTQ issues, but it could have been any issue just focussed on that as it's the focus, need to make it an all time thing. I don't like gesturing and bandwagon jumping. That's across the board.

And yes I am Muslim and the answer is a little more nuanced than people believe. Islamically sodomy is seen as a sin. The gender isn't relevant. Also in Islam things are not as simple as illegal or legal. For example drinking alcohol isn't allowed. It's a sin too. Yet people drink and have drank in the past. They are seen as bad Muslims but not beyond "redemption" forgiveness etc. The only time it becomes "illegal" is openly and publicly in an islamic state/country where 100% Islam is being followed.

Same with homosexuality, or sex in general. What happens between two people is between two people. Consensual obviously. Do what you want and if you are a believer it's between you and God.

Transgender is different.

Today no country has 100% Islam. You can't have bits where it suits. To do so is injustice. The rules on oppression and injustice are more powerful/relevant/worthy of attention (not sure right word). So for me personally I can dislike something whether personally or religiously but I can't be unjust or oppressive. I can dislike a concept but not an individual. I must not oppress or be unjust.

Not sure how this comes across or will be taken. I've tried to answer it

The way you speak around topics and questions is incredibly frustrating.

 

[yumtum]

As strongly as I feel about this I can't blame him or the other players. It effectively would mean sitting out the 3rd group stage game.

Taking part in world cups is what we all dream of playing as kids, and given they never had that dream buried like the rest of us they probably still do.

Nah, if you don't want to stand for something when faced with the smallest of obstruction then you don't deserve to stand for it when it's "easy".

It's basically being confirmed that it's a token gesture, marketing to get more people on board for their brands.

 

[The Boy]

Transgender is different.

different as in acceptable to you or not?

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

My friend there is a lot of Islamophobia in this thread and many others on the red cafe. You can’t react to it because they are totally lost causes. Let them hate brother, inshallah, they find Allah one day.

Well, doubtful.

 

[AgentSmith]

Take the booking and rotate the armband to help deal with the consequence.

Extremely disappointing to give in given how powerful a moment it could have been.

 

[BD]

Backing down because of a yellow card would be incredibly disappointing.

We were prepared to pay fines … however we cannot put out players in the situation where they might be booked or even forced to leave the field of play.

 

[Roane]

Weird how you don't have an issue with Qatar backing out of agreements unilaterally and randomly changing their policies a day before the tournament, but you do have an issue with people protesting laws as a matter of conscience because 'they have to follow the process'.

Why do people just make up a narrative. I clearly asked that there is a lot to criticise Qatar about but isn't this on FIFA.

I then gave the rules and regs that FIFA have had for ages. They also have a process that teams go through and do if they want changes.

Qatar are cnuts.

 

[duffer]

...

Cowards.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

It just goes to show they didn’t really give a shit about highlighting any issues when they back out at the threat of receiving a poxy yellow card. Pathetic.

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

The way you speak around topics and questions is incredibly frustrating.

That's because the foundations of the beliefs are rooted in illogical premises.

 

[Abizzz]

Nah, if you don't want to stand for something when faced with the smallest of obstruction then you don't deserve to stand for it when it's "easy".

Being banned from your job for a third of the time is hardly the smallest of obstructions.

 

[2cents]

Not sure how this comes across or will be taken.

Honestly, like many of your posts on these topics it comes across as deliberately vague and disingenuous. You haven’t directly answered the question, which should be quite simple.

I’ll rephrase it - in a hypothetical ideal Islamic state with “100% Islam” as you put it, according to you is consensual sex between two adults of the same gender legal or illegal? And if illegal, what if anything is the appropriate punishment?

 

[do.ob]

The guy said they are killed by the state for just being Christians. As if the state is rounding up Christians and killing them and Christians are having to hide their identify. Oh and also said Muslim countries as if it's happening everywhere, certainly doesn't happen in Qatar. Absolutely ridiculous thing to say. Should I say Muslims are killed in Christian countries given the attacks that have happened against them like the NZ terrorist attack?

I absolutely agree that our treatment of minorities in Pakistan is not good, they can be discriminated against and there have been attacks against their community by terrorist organizations. But to claim that the government is killing them is insulting to me to think that people believe this hate speech.

Like I said, there are Christian communities in big cities like Karachi, where some of the best schools are run by Christians and a lot of Christian students go to. It's not perfect ofcourse but that was an extreme statement full of hate for Muslims and should not be tolerated. End of.

If anything, the group that sadly actually have to hide their identify are Ahmadis, which is considered a controversial sect of Islam. They are treated horribly in society and also by the state, which says they cannot identify as Muslim.

I agree that the post that got you triggered was way too generalizing, but it wasn't clear to me whether you acknowledged a problem at all to be honest (not anymore after this post of course).

 

[2mufc0]

It's basically being confirmed that it's a token gesture, marketing to get more people on board for their brands.

I'm not sure what made you think it was anything else in the first place

 

[stevoc]

As strongly as I feel about this I can't blame him or the other players. It effectively would mean sitting out the 3rd group stage game.

Taking part in world cups is what we all dream of playing as kids, and given they never had that dream buried like the rest of us they probably still do.

Not if you change captain every game to someone who hasn't already been booked.

 

[BD]

That's because the foundations of the beliefs are rooted in illogical premises.

Doesn't stop him posting with a gust of condescension and moral superiority.

 

[Abizzz]

Not if you change captain every game to someone who hasn't already been booked.

Then you basically let Qatar decide that captaining your country means nothing.

 

[duffer]

Being banned from your job for a third of the time is hardly the smallest of obstructions.

A yellow card isnt a ban, is it?

Edit, I see your point, if he does it every game.

 

[Tibs]

‘We support LGBT rights’

‘OK but you’re going to get a yellow card’

‘What armband we weren’t serious lol’

- Shows how much courage you need to stand up for what you believe in, in real life - not online or social media.

 

[padzilla]

Surely a player receiving a yellow card for a pro LGBT armband would be a huge gesture of support to that community. Instead they've bottled it at the first sign of resistance. It's pretty embarrassing.

 

[Abizzz]

A yellow card isnt a ban, is it?

2 are and there's 3 games to a group stage?

 

[Slops]

It also feels pretty alarming to me that a governing body or a host, rather than a match official, can threaten a booking for this.

Is there anything in football's rules that actually allows for a booking in this case?

 

[Roane]

different as in acceptable to you or not?

As in different in the Qur'an and Islam.

Believe it or not it was way ahead of its time

 

[TheGodsInRed]

Take the booking and rotate the armband to help deal with the consequence.

Extremely disappointing to give in given how powerful a moment it could have been.

True. You could give Pickford the armband as keepers hardly ever get yellow cards.