Foreign secretary advice to LGBT fans.... Be respectful

Dve

Full Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2019
Messages
2,898
I agree with you. I've stated many times what people do in their own space and time is nothing whatsoever to do with me. Or anybody else for that matter.

With regards to God I'm not here to convince anyone else or prove anything to anyone else. Im just saying I believe and the proof is sufficient for me. My journey is mine. Mine alone. I am convinced there is a creator. I am convinced the Qur'an is divine. That authority is what I live my life by. Me.
I have no problem with that. I, on the other hand, am convinced that god does not exist, and that the Quran is not divine. I'm also convinced we can still be friends.
 

RacingClub

Full Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2021
Messages
2,040
Supports
Racing Club
I'm beginning to think the poster may believe that being a homosexual is immoral.

Like if someone was to ask me that question I could easily answer.
 

maniak

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Messages
9,870
Location
Lisboa
Supports
Arsenal
Who are you again? You don't get to demand nothing.

Change that attitude and if I feel like it I may respond. Until then I'll stick to those folk who may disagree but are not making demands
Whatever your reasoning, it just sounds like you're dodging the question, and when someone dodges a question it's because they know their answer is not a good one.
 

RacingClub

Full Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2021
Messages
2,040
Supports
Racing Club
Whatever your reasoning, it just sounds like you're dodging the question, and when someone dodges a question it's because they know their answer is not a good one.
Do you think that being gay is immoral?
 

fergies coat

Full Member
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
2,750
Location
Wythenshawe, Manchester
I didn’t demand anything from you (although, if as you say, I ‘don’t get to demand nothing’, it would suggest that you’re encouraging me to demand something from you…), I asked you a simple yes or no question that should be easy to answer.

Do you think that being gay is immoral?

Yes or no.
And if he says yes what does it matter to you? As long as he treats people with respect and does no harm to anyone he can believe what he wants. It's none of you business.
 

redcucumber

Full Member
Joined
May 18, 2022
Messages
3,165
And if he says yes what does it matter to you? As long as he treats people with respect and does no harm to anyone he can believe what he wants. It's none of you business.
What about if one believes black people are lesser (but never acts on it). Would that be fine?
 

Rhyme Animal

Thinks Di Zerbi is better than Pep.
Joined
Sep 3, 2015
Messages
11,193
Location
Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
And if he says yes what does it matter to you? As long as he treats people with respect and does no harm to anyone he can believe what he wants. It's none of you business.
I don’t understand why me asking the question is bothering him (or now you).

It’s hardly a pushy question is it?

He’s free not to answer, and I’m free to ask.

If it’s not my business to ask, I very much doubt it’s your business to tell me what I can or can’t do…
 

fergies coat

Full Member
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
2,750
Location
Wythenshawe, Manchester
I don’t understand why me asking the question is bothering him (or now you).

It’s hardly a pushy question is it?

He’s free not to answer, and I’m free to ask.

If it’s not my business to ask, I very much doubt it’s your business to tell me what I can or can’t do…
So if he says yes. What difference does it make?
 

Rhyme Animal

Thinks Di Zerbi is better than Pep.
Joined
Sep 3, 2015
Messages
11,193
Location
Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
So if he says yes. What difference does it make?
It means that those giving their own time to converse with him on the topic of GAYNESS at this World Cup (that’s what this thread is dedicated to) will have a clearer picture of his actual stance on the issue.

I’m not the only poster asking for him to answer this one question.

I’ll make my stance really clear and state that I think people who oppress gay people’s rights to live equally as straight people are immoral pieces of shit.

I’m not gay, but that’s just my personal opinion.

That was pretty easy.
 

calodo2003

Flaming Full Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
41,571
Location
Florida
Possibly, but if someone believes it's immoral that much your not going to change thier mind. It's seems it's mainly religious people with me. Religion is stuck in the dark ages.
Maybe it’s to see if the answer flies in concert or conflict with the incessant pontification.
 

maniak

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Messages
9,870
Location
Lisboa
Supports
Arsenal
Possibly, but if someone believes it's immoral that much your not going to change thier mind. It's seems it's mainly religious people with me. Religion is stuck in the dark ages.
I mean, in a thread where people are discussing lgbt issues, it kinda matters knowing where the other person stands on the topic.
 

utdalltheway

Sexy Beast
Joined
Aug 20, 2001
Messages
20,438
Location
SoCal, USA
....Religion is stuck in the dark ages.
If we speak to the facts and leave out the opinion/belief; being gay is not a choice and it is not against any natural laws.
If some countries in the 21st century prohibit homosexuality then they open themselves up to ridicule by those of us that deal in a factual world.
That ridicule is not anti muslim or anti-right wing christian - it's just pro-fact.
.
 

fergies coat

Full Member
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
2,750
Location
Wythenshawe, Manchester
If we speak to the facts and leave out the opinion/belief; being gay is not a choice and it is not against any natural laws.
If some countries in the 21st century prohibit homosexuality then they open themselves up to ridicule by those of us that deal in a factual world.
That ridicule is not anti muslim or anti-right wing christian - it's just pro-fact.
.
Anyone can believe what they want, but countries shouldn't have laws based on a book that was written thousands of years ago. Time moves on.
 

Chesterlestreet

Man of the crowd
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Messages
19,505
He's a footballer, do you honestly expect him to solve all the world's problems?
Don't be obtuse, I obviously don't.

I don't even expect him to take a stand.

I do, however, expect him to be aware of what kind of position he's in and choose his words carefully. The same goes for Harry Kane. You can't just prattle on about how important something is one day, and then explicitly state that kicking a ball about is more important the next , without people noticing the blatant (and, frankly, grotesque) discrepancy.

Footballers are, whether they realize it or not, in a position to make a difference. They can be a force for good if they choose to be. In this particular case, the latter is not unrealistic at all: wear the armband, take the punishment, tell FIFA to go feck themselves. Symbolically, that would have been huge in the context of this fecked-up tournament.
 

Maroon Lucifer

Full Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
4,852
Location
Faroe Islands
Ah ok, how did the governing body for formula 1 sanction him?
I'm sorry I did a hit and run on you...

No, Lewis said it well before the Saudi grand prix that he was planning to wear that helmet, and said that he hoped that someone from the LGBT+ community or worked with them would reach out. So the press reached out for comments from the Qatari authorities, and get this....this is only a year ago:

"Nasser Al Khater, chief executive of the 2022 soccer World Cup that Qatar is hosting, was asked about it at a media round table and said: "Nobody can stop anybody from taking a position publicly or privately if they wish.

"But it is something that we feel is not fair, and honestly incorrect.

"There's really not any issue that anybody has to worry about in terms of persecution of any sort. Any sort," he added in response to a question about LGBTQ+ fans coming to the country".
 

SilentWitness

ShoelessWitness
Staff
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
30,136
Supports
Everton

It must be depressing to be so blinded by hatred. They mistook this journalists flag for an LGBT one. It is the flag of Pernambuco.
 

moses

Can't We Just Be Nice?
Staff
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Messages
42,763
Location
I have no idea either, yet.
Who are you again? You don't get to demand nothing.

Change that attitude and if I feel like it I may respond. Until then I'll stick to those folk who may disagree but are not making demands
He asked a simple question for clarity, if you don't wish to engage with a discussion honestly perhaps a blog would suit you better.
 

IRONTUSK

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Nov 9, 2021
Messages
116
But, islamophobia, christianophobia ( both religion and that self-centered c*nt), hinduphobia are all ok in my books as long as they take aim at the shitty and backwards aspects of those religions.

I love the arabic culture and I am also indifferent towards the hijab - because a person is free to wear as they choose. But, I also think both Islam and Christianity are bunch of snake oil. So, is every aethiest an islamophobia?
All these phobia words thrown around like homophobia and transphobia. The traditional meaning of the word phobia is an irrational fear of something. Nowadays if two people disagree about something people are automatically labelled....not sure how we got to this point but it seems a bit backwards to me.
 

moses

Can't We Just Be Nice?
Staff
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Messages
42,763
Location
I have no idea either, yet.
I think thiis puts the whataboutery in context.

"You know what’s most shocking about the massacre in Colorado Springs? The fact that it felt so inevitable. Over the past year there has been an escalation in dangerously dehumanising anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric. The idea that LGBTQ+ people are “groomers” and paedophiles has become a mainstream conservative talking point pushed by everyone from Fox News to Republican politicians. Christina Pushaw, the press secretary for the Florida governor Ron DeSantis, for example, said that a new law preventing Florida schools from teaching kids about LGBTQ+ people should be called the “the anti-grooming bill”. If you’re against it, she tweeted, “you are probably a groomer or at least you don’t denounce the grooming of four- to eight-year-old children”. According to the Human Rights Campaign, the average number of tweets each day using slurs such as “groomer” and “paedophile” in relation to LGBTQ+ people increased by 406% in the month after the Florida bill was passed.


The dehumanising rhetoric has been accompanied by growing violence. The Proud Boys, a far-right group, have been disrupting Drag Queen Story Hour events (in which performers read books to children) across the US, often turning up with guns. In September Boston children’s hospital received bomb threats after sustained far-right harassment sparked by the hospital’s work with transgender youths. The tragedy at Club Q didn’t happen in a vacuum."

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...rous-escalation-in-hateful-anti-lgbt-rhetoric
 

Foxbatt

New Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
14,297
I have to agree with this.

There are not many countries out there that are squeaky clean but that's whataboutism, this particular moment it's about Qatar and their record human rights.
And in 4 years time it'll be the turn to shine the light on the US. But not today.
You must be joking! Do you really think it's going to happen? How many international tournaments have been held in the USA after they bombed the hell out and invaded Vietnam?
 

Ronaldo's ego

Incorrectly predicted the 2020 US Election
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Messages
7,669
Location
I'm better than Messi (even though I'm not)
You must be joking! Do you really think it's going to happen? How many international tournaments have been held in the USA after they bombed the hell out and invaded Vietnam?
Like feck that’ll happen. Everyone will be licking their arse as usual. BBC and ITV won’t be able to praise them enough.
 

calodo2003

Flaming Full Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
41,571
Location
Florida
I think thiis puts the whataboutery in context.

"You know what’s most shocking about the massacre in Colorado Springs? The fact that it felt so inevitable. Over the past year there has been an escalation in dangerously dehumanising anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric. The idea that LGBTQ+ people are “groomers” and paedophiles has become a mainstream conservative talking point pushed by everyone from Fox News to Republican politicians. Christina Pushaw, the press secretary for the Florida governor Ron DeSantis, for example, said that a new law preventing Florida schools from teaching kids about LGBTQ+ people should be called the “the anti-grooming bill”. If you’re against it, she tweeted, “you are probably a groomer or at least you don’t denounce the grooming of four- to eight-year-old children”. According to the Human Rights Campaign, the average number of tweets each day using slurs such as “groomer” and “paedophile” in relation to LGBTQ+ people increased by 406% in the month after the Florida bill was passed.


The dehumanising rhetoric has been accompanied by growing violence. The Proud Boys, a far-right group, have been disrupting Drag Queen Story Hour events (in which performers read books to children) across the US, often turning up with guns. In September Boston children’s hospital received bomb threats after sustained far-right harassment sparked by the hospital’s work with transgender youths. The tragedy at Club Q didn’t happen in a vacuum."

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...rous-escalation-in-hateful-anti-lgbt-rhetoric
Pushaw could be the biggest cnut right now in US politics.
 

moses

Can't We Just Be Nice?
Staff
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Messages
42,763
Location
I have no idea either, yet.
You must be joking! Do you really think it's going to happen? How many international tournaments have been held in the USA after they bombed the hell out and invaded Vietnam?
Yeah, Vietnam, famously brushed under the carpet. What actually went on there? We may never know.

I think the US bombing campaign in Asia in WW2 was equally horrific btw. Why don't you make a thread about hypocrisy and history in context, because intentionally or not all you look like you want to achieve here is massive support for oppression of the LGBT community.

Also If you were to compare the structural institutional racism in the states, you might have a clearer and more empathic point rather that appearing in a rush to dismiss the issue at hand.
 
Last edited:

Foxbatt

New Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
14,297
Are you preaching or engaging in discussion/debate? Because you don't seem to responding to point I've made.

So all Muslims agree with me? Probably not on many issues. Does that make them right Islamically? No. Am I right? Check the test and the explanation. Qur'an, Sunnah, action of the Sahabah. Simple. Anyone disagree with this them I won't know what they are following. It isn't Islam and there is consensus on this where it matters.

Oppressing 10% of the population. Not even slightly. Islam is for Muslims first and foremost. There are rules eg don't drink alcohol. Some do. They are sinning Islamically. If they don't follow Islam they are free to do what they want. Drink what they want.

Love, humanity etc In Islam you can dislike a concept if Islam has made it a sin. But individual can never oppress or do injustice to an individual. I've said this on numerous occasions. Islam also has criteria. So chopping off the hand is in Islam. Yet what Saudi do is against Islam. Why because of criteria. So if a person is stealing because of hunger they don't get punished, the local governor/MP/councillor would be accountable in the first instance. If they didn't have the funds it goes up the ladder. Put simply the PM in UK would be punishable for food banks and poverty if it lead to crime. Not the guy who stole.

Sex before marriage is a sin in Islam. Pakistan has no right to punish a 20 year old engaged in sex before marriage. Why? Because they have created a society where dowry makes marriage difficult, even parents want kids to get an education and marry when 25, TV and advertising has semi naked women on billboards etc which evokes desire etc. To them punish a single man or woman in their 20's for engaging in sexual acts would be considered wrong.

This is why I don't do simple yes and no answers. It doesn't represent the whole picture. And no even with the complete picture I don't expect all to agree. I have no problem with it I don't see why likes of you do.

I've never beaten up a gay person, called any names, not befriended one based on their sexual orientation, not employed a person because they were gay, hetro or bisexual etc. I am convinced there is a creator, I am convinced there is an afterlife, I am convinced the Qur'an is a divine book, it tells me I will be accountable for my actions, no one else's. It provides a guide for how I should live my life to attain what it promises. I don't compromise that for nobody. If that makes me a bad person in the eyes of my peers etc I can live with that.
Listen, you are never going to convince most people because they are either ignorant of the facts or biased or both.
I know that Pakistan has transgender rights enshrined in Law but the practice of it is not the same. Yes legally the government had to protect their rights but every country has weirdos. What a lot of people see is the news in many of the western news.
Yes it's the narrow interpretation of what they think is right. It's never black and white in many cases as you have pointed out about the chopping of the hand in Saudi. It's idiotic to encompass a brutal regime and religion. Any religion.
 

Foxbatt

New Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
14,297
Yeah, Vietnam, famously brushed under the carpet. What actually went on there? We may never know.

I think the US bombing campaign in Asia in WW2 was equally horrific btw. Why don't you make a thread about hypocrisy and history in context, because intentionally or not all you look like you want to achieve here is massive support for oppression of the LGBT community.

If you were to compare the structural institutional racism in the states, you might have a point.
What are you on about? It's the start of many illegal invasions, bombings of other countries etc. Yet no boycott call by anyone. Does it only have to be discrimination against the LGBT community that has to be held accountable? I say Only. The discrimination in Canada against the first nations too and Canada is hosting some games too.
 

Roane

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
2,330
He asked a simple question for clarity, if you don't wish to engage with a discussion honestly perhaps a blog would suit you better.

It wasn't a discussion at all. The discussion was between me and a couple of other posters. He came in making demands. As did a few others who I have ignored completely.

I'm open to reasonable discussion with anyone. I have views many disagree with, if I feel it's a respectful genuine discussion I will continue. But I'm not here to comply to demands and shouldn't be expected to be
 

moses

Can't We Just Be Nice?
Staff
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Messages
42,763
Location
I have no idea either, yet.
What are you on about? It's the start of many illegal invasions, bombings of other countries etc. Yet no boycott call by anyone. Does it only have to be discrimination against the LGBT community that has to be held accountable? I say Only. The discrimination in Canada against the first nations too and Canada is hosting some games too.
Right, so Vietnam, which was famously heavily protested in the US and all over the word at the time?
If you were there would you have been calling a halt on the protest because of historical wars in Asia?

On the bolded bit. that's utter hypoicrisy, you are the one making comparisons with other atrocious behaviour instead of just dealing with the oppression at hand. On purpose or not you are on the side of the oppressor in this conversation, if not in reality. This is a thread about LGBT issues so that might explain people's insistence on focusing there.

In case you haven't noticed there is actually no boycott by anyone of Qatar, so you are in reality raging against a hypothetical or some idiots online.

Who is this imaginary person who was for Vietnam but is now upset in solidarity with the LGBT community?

I literally have a picture of Ho Chi Minh and the actual hammer and sickle from a Canadian branch of the communist party in my kitchen. Vietnam was only part of a systematic attack on the poor for geopolitical control under the guise of the war on communism. It doesn't stop me caring about the actual oppresion happening now.

Do you think sexual freedom should be a human right?
 
Last edited:

moses

Can't We Just Be Nice?
Staff
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Messages
42,763
Location
I have no idea either, yet.
It wasn't a discussion at all. The discussion was between me and a couple of other posters. He came in making demands. As did a few others who I have ignored completely.

I'm open to reasonable discussion with anyone. I have views many disagree with, if I feel it's a respectful genuine discussion I will continue. But I'm not here to comply to demands and shouldn't be expected to be
This is a discussion and direct questions are part of that.

Reasonable discussion and being obviously evasive don't fit together I'm afraid.

Comply to demands indeed, suddenly we all about personal freedom.