We won't have oil money.
Qatar's energy supply is produced almost exclusively by natural gas (99.2%), with oil making up the rest (0.8%).
ACTUAL POLL thread - how do you feel about potential Qatari ownership?
- Thread starter Wumminator
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Qatar's energy supply is produced almost exclusively by natural gas (99.2%), with oil making up the rest (0.8%).
What I’ve found during this whole mini saga is that while I’m no fan of the Qatari regime or state-ownership of football clubs, I really really want the Glazers to feck off. While some of the stuff happening in Qatar is terrible, it doesn’t impact my life at all. Which I’m aware sounds really horrible and self-serving but it’s also, y’know.. true. Whereas I’ve watched the Glazers rinse this club I love dry for nearly two decades now.
So essentially my desire for the Glazers to feck off is stronger than my opposition to the Qatari regime. Just a gut reaction. I’m beyond sick of seeing these parasites take from the club to the point where anyone seems preferable. Makes me feel a bit sad if I’m being honest.
So essentially my desire for the Glazers to feck off is stronger than my opposition to the Qatari regime. Just a gut reaction. I’m beyond sick of seeing these parasites take from the club to the point where anyone seems preferable. Makes me feel a bit sad if I’m being honest.
In reality, I'll still support the club - that's a connection that is more or less impossible to break.
In financial terms - I might well stop making any contribution to it (match tickets, MUTV sub) - but even that's a hard habit to break. If club policy/marketing/social media starts to reflect Qatari state policy then it'll be easy to stop.
In financial terms - I might well stop making any contribution to it (match tickets, MUTV sub) - but even that's a hard habit to break. If club policy/marketing/social media starts to reflect Qatari state policy then it'll be easy to stop.
We have a good thing going on with ETH. As long as they don't mess it up, I won't be too upset.
Speaking as a Feyenoord fan I would rather stay relatively obscure nobodies tham become a European power house under oil money.
And that would be a far bigger leap than for you lot.
And that would be a far bigger leap than for you lot.
Not happy about it but it won't stop me from supporting the club.
I changed the pill tbf.
This. I have enough problems in my life. I don't want to have to trouble myself with the ethical issues at United.
Of course, I'll have my opinions, and I'll share them here whenever I like. But at the end of the day, the only thing that really affects my mood for the weekend is the result on the pitch.
I'll still enjoy football and I'll still enjoy seeing United win, regardless of who owns the club. The politics are interesting but secondary to me.
I’m largely indifferent. It’s one of those things that looking back as far as the attempted BSkyB takeover in 98/99 that things like this were looming over the horizon anyway. I’ve just accepted this as just the next evolutionary step in the journey that is association football.
I can’t see us lauding it over everyone else for too long (as I know some fans will), as I can see the likes of Liverpool, Spurs and Arsenal getting their equivalents soon enough. My personal prediction is that the Premier League will be the Super League with all these new owners.
Objectively I will say Qatar has the money to improve us long-term (i.e. new training facilities and new stadium), which I don’t think INEOS can carry out, and if they did… it would impact the short to medium term (i.e. new players and maintaining first team).
The ideal scenario for a Qatari ownership for me is sit in the background, change nothing that’s happening now in terms of what’s happening on the pitch and look into investing heavily in the stadium and training facilities. Any involvement in first team affairs beyond providing funds for transfers would be viewed sceptically.
I can’t see us lauding it over everyone else for too long (as I know some fans will), as I can see the likes of Liverpool, Spurs and Arsenal getting their equivalents soon enough. My personal prediction is that the Premier League will be the Super League with all these new owners.
Objectively I will say Qatar has the money to improve us long-term (i.e. new training facilities and new stadium), which I don’t think INEOS can carry out, and if they did… it would impact the short to medium term (i.e. new players and maintaining first team).
The ideal scenario for a Qatari ownership for me is sit in the background, change nothing that’s happening now in terms of what’s happening on the pitch and look into investing heavily in the stadium and training facilities. Any involvement in first team affairs beyond providing funds for transfers would be viewed sceptically.
This is where I am with it as well. All I want from new owners is for them to let the club spend its own money and not be total fecking parasites.
Related to that, I don't particularly want Mbappe, Bellingham and Gvardiol or whatever the galactico shopping list is that twitter "United fans" are currently wanking themselves blind over, either. I just want the project we're already building under Ten Hag to be carried out in the same vein as it's been started, with a massive priority put on players with the right attitude and mentality.
Seeing Messi, Neymar and Mbappe at times literally just fecking stand there and watch the Bayern centre halves stroll around and knock the ball to each other, knowing that there are people who would rather have us be the next version of that than the evolution of the team we saw last night makes me feel a bit sick.
Thanks. I feel a lot better about the deal now
Before any journalists report on this thread in their papers - please can you contact me by direct message.
Fine but have some reservations. I just don't trust the US consortiums to not continue leeching the club after the Glazers have done it successfully for 2 decades. Some people are saying that we don't need money etc. but we do need money, keep piling on the debt is not the answer. We got a way with investing £0 in our infrastructure and spending the money on players instead. However the time has come when we can no longer do that and the Glazers are well aware of it, hence why they are selling it. They know we need some serious money for the stadium, training centre, womens team but at the same time we still need to continue investing in the squad because it's not good enough. We don't have the money for that.
That leaves us with Jim and the states. I think Jim has scared a lot of people with the reports of taking loans from JPMorgan and Goldman Sachs to cover the debt. To regular people this just sounds like the Glazers all over again, something we are desperate to get rid of. It's hard to really know what we would really get with him being an owner. It's a bit of a lottery and some people understandably are not that thrilled with that prospect.
With the states, we know exactly what we will get. Sportswashing and all that baggage that comes with it, with some very shady people involved in running the club but at the same time a proper investment in all areas is pretty much guaranteed. The emir of Qatar being a United fan makes me a bit more confident that we wouldn't be some kind of toy club and that he would really care about us.
Ideally we would all chip in and own the club. Signings, starting XIs etc. would be determined by having polls on RedCafe. But it's not an option so leaving all personal agendas and feelings about certain things behind, Qatar ownership is probably best for the future of the club.
That leaves us with Jim and the states. I think Jim has scared a lot of people with the reports of taking loans from JPMorgan and Goldman Sachs to cover the debt. To regular people this just sounds like the Glazers all over again, something we are desperate to get rid of. It's hard to really know what we would really get with him being an owner. It's a bit of a lottery and some people understandably are not that thrilled with that prospect.
With the states, we know exactly what we will get. Sportswashing and all that baggage that comes with it, with some very shady people involved in running the club but at the same time a proper investment in all areas is pretty much guaranteed. The emir of Qatar being a United fan makes me a bit more confident that we wouldn't be some kind of toy club and that he would really care about us.
Ideally we would all chip in and own the club. Signings, starting XIs etc. would be determined by having polls on RedCafe. But it's not an option so leaving all personal agendas and feelings about certain things behind, Qatar ownership is probably best for the future of the club.
I feel that there are two options missing. Why only "seriously consider my continued support"? Surely some people have made up their mind already and will definitely stop supporting United.
I also think that "Not happy, will still support the club" kind of throws everyone into the same category. Some people might choose to support the club, but not financially for instance. I also think that there is a difference between those who will serve as the devil's advocate and those who will continue to criticise the ownership whenever the topic is brought up.
I watched the Qatar world cup, but every time someone asks me about it I take my time to criticise the tournament itself too. It has become so second nature by now that I will never be able to think about that world cup without also remembering all the negative aspects. Whatever positive branding Qatar wanted out of the world cup has therefore failed with me and most of my peers.
I will apply the same logic now. Would I prefer other owners? Yes. Would I be fine with less success if it meant not being owned by a state? Yes. Will I continue to criticise these regimes? Yes. Will I completely stop supporting United? Probably never.
I also think that "Not happy, will still support the club" kind of throws everyone into the same category. Some people might choose to support the club, but not financially for instance. I also think that there is a difference between those who will serve as the devil's advocate and those who will continue to criticise the ownership whenever the topic is brought up.
I watched the Qatar world cup, but every time someone asks me about it I take my time to criticise the tournament itself too. It has become so second nature by now that I will never be able to think about that world cup without also remembering all the negative aspects. Whatever positive branding Qatar wanted out of the world cup has therefore failed with me and most of my peers.
I will apply the same logic now. Would I prefer other owners? Yes. Would I be fine with less success if it meant not being owned by a state? Yes. Will I continue to criticise these regimes? Yes. Will I completely stop supporting United? Probably never.
I wanted a general canvas, I was going to DM people from different sections later to get a more in depth look.
I don’t agree with their ideologies but I will never stop supporting the club.
This is my attempt at running through a pros and cons list, feel free to chime in:
Pros:
- New investment into the team
- Debt free
- Investment into Old Trafford / New stadium
- Regeneration of the surrounding area
- Massive potential to improve our brand worldwide, continuing to cement our legacy as an elite side
- Placing Qatar under a spotlight, helping to reinforce positive change
Cons:
- Ethical issues surrounding the ownership, human rights abuses and gender inequalities
- The gender inequalities and that relationship with the womens team don't sit particularly well!
- Making the success feel more hollow and we can no longer sit on our high horse regarding PSG, City, Chelsea however I would caveat that and say at least (like Newcastle) we are a proper club rather than just purely a party piece.
- A selection of fans going overboard and celebrating this like the Newcastle fans, headscarves and all.
- Potentially alienating/segregating a large group of the fanbase.
- Edit: Concerns over the football structure and whether they will keep the manager in place.
The way I see it is like this. I think state ownership is wrong on every level and I have maintained for years that City's model should never have been allowed to happen. People will call it eliteist, but Manchester Utd are one of the biggest clubs in the world with one of the highest turnovers. New owners no matter how rich should at best be able to help catch up and partly level the playing field but I don't think they should ever have been able to take it beyond that to ridiculous levels. In no real world are City turning over more than the true, historic elite clubs and as a result their spending should reflect that. Instead they have falsified records to not only compete, but stranglehold the entire competition, which is a joke.
However, the horse has already bolted. What should have been prevented wasn't and now traditional clubs have little choice but to play catch up. Because of that I cant help but think to myself 'well City and Chelsea fans (plus those who condone it) you've brought this on yourselves'. The prospect of an elite, historic club like Manchester Utd with our reputation having that much outside investment is a scary prospect. We have legitimate revenue above and beyond those teams matched by only a select few. With owners also willing to add to our spending power we have the capability of reaching unseen levels. Is that fair? Absolutely not and as I said it should never have been allowed. But those in the media can't say on one hand how brilliant City/Chelsea have been for the Premier League and the spectacle and then moan when Manchester Utd do the same, only on another level. I suspect that only when Utd start spending and dominating as City have that those in the media will begin to moan again.
Pros:
- New investment into the team
- Debt free
- Investment into Old Trafford / New stadium
- Regeneration of the surrounding area
- Massive potential to improve our brand worldwide, continuing to cement our legacy as an elite side
- Placing Qatar under a spotlight, helping to reinforce positive change
Cons:
- Ethical issues surrounding the ownership, human rights abuses and gender inequalities
- The gender inequalities and that relationship with the womens team don't sit particularly well!
- Making the success feel more hollow and we can no longer sit on our high horse regarding PSG, City, Chelsea however I would caveat that and say at least (like Newcastle) we are a proper club rather than just purely a party piece.
- A selection of fans going overboard and celebrating this like the Newcastle fans, headscarves and all.
- Potentially alienating/segregating a large group of the fanbase.
- Edit: Concerns over the football structure and whether they will keep the manager in place.
The way I see it is like this. I think state ownership is wrong on every level and I have maintained for years that City's model should never have been allowed to happen. People will call it eliteist, but Manchester Utd are one of the biggest clubs in the world with one of the highest turnovers. New owners no matter how rich should at best be able to help catch up and partly level the playing field but I don't think they should ever have been able to take it beyond that to ridiculous levels. In no real world are City turning over more than the true, historic elite clubs and as a result their spending should reflect that. Instead they have falsified records to not only compete, but stranglehold the entire competition, which is a joke.
However, the horse has already bolted. What should have been prevented wasn't and now traditional clubs have little choice but to play catch up. Because of that I cant help but think to myself 'well City and Chelsea fans (plus those who condone it) you've brought this on yourselves'. The prospect of an elite, historic club like Manchester Utd with our reputation having that much outside investment is a scary prospect. We have legitimate revenue above and beyond those teams matched by only a select few. With owners also willing to add to our spending power we have the capability of reaching unseen levels. Is that fair? Absolutely not and as I said it should never have been allowed. But those in the media can't say on one hand how brilliant City/Chelsea have been for the Premier League and the spectacle and then moan when Manchester Utd do the same, only on another level. I suspect that only when Utd start spending and dominating as City have that those in the media will begin to moan again.
I don't want to see it, at all. Will I stop supporting United? No I don't think so, but a part of my love for the club will die a little.
For a con, please can you see that regeneration in the area comes at a cost. I don’t want the new regime profiteering from Manchester like City do.
It won’t. None of the ME-run clubs are doing this, they all still support rainbow laces, etc. They’re not buying clubs in order to enforce their belief system on the world.
I wouldn't like it, but I'd still support the team. Out of all the rumoured options I'd prefer it over a US group of Boehly types, and all the options appear pretty shite. Which we already knew. A Musk owned club would be horrific.
My main concern, football wise, with a Qatari ownership is how shite I think they're doing at PSG. I'd feel a bit better about it if they had some United old boys as a poster child for it, which might be silly, but I think a Beckham would be a bit of an insurance policy against owners interfering with what ETH is doing.
My main concern, football wise, with a Qatari ownership is how shite I think they're doing at PSG. I'd feel a bit better about it if they had some United old boys as a poster child for it, which might be silly, but I think a Beckham would be a bit of an insurance policy against owners interfering with what ETH is doing.
Not happy, and chose 'will seriously consider my support'.
In reality, I'm not sure what exactly that means, cause even at the moment I'm not sure how I 'support' the club. I don't buy jerseys, don't pay to watch games, don't go to games, etc. I don't really have that many friends who I talk to about football either. So I can imagine that I'll still watch games and maybe I'll get some joy out of us winning (yet to be seen, and not something I can really decide as such).
But I definitely won't be defending the club, at all. If someone says that we're a club that only helps to make football worse, I'll agree 100%. I won't try to reason why it's actually a good thing for Qatar or the people, or how City did it first so we had no choice, or whatever.
It also depends a bit on the type of owners they are. If they start doing what PSG and City do, then I'll be out. If we're run a bit more sensibly and within our (our meaning the club, not the owners) means, then I can imagine I'll still like seeing us win, as annoying as that might be to my rational side.
In reality, I'm not sure what exactly that means, cause even at the moment I'm not sure how I 'support' the club. I don't buy jerseys, don't pay to watch games, don't go to games, etc. I don't really have that many friends who I talk to about football either. So I can imagine that I'll still watch games and maybe I'll get some joy out of us winning (yet to be seen, and not something I can really decide as such).
But I definitely won't be defending the club, at all. If someone says that we're a club that only helps to make football worse, I'll agree 100%. I won't try to reason why it's actually a good thing for Qatar or the people, or how City did it first so we had no choice, or whatever.
It also depends a bit on the type of owners they are. If they start doing what PSG and City do, then I'll be out. If we're run a bit more sensibly and within our (our meaning the club, not the owners) means, then I can imagine I'll still like seeing us win, as annoying as that might be to my rational side.
I'd rather see proper regulation, rather than joining the club. At the moment the Premier League is like the last days of an unfettered capitalist dream. Regulation is a long time coming and if it does come, we have been late to the game anyway.
Also transfer spending and wages wise, United have easily spent enough money to win a few leagues. We just had a terrible, terrible chief executive in Ed Woodward and a terrible strategy, but the resources were there without Qatar. Just need an owner that cares and has enough money to keep things going and not draining resources from the club.
I don't disagree and I do think some sort of consortium would also make for potentially good ownership. But the issue is at this level of investment do many actually exist that wouldn't want to strip the club for profits?
It's hard to know really, but selling to Qatar you sell a different part of the sould of the club as well, even if not financial.
this. to be honest football has sold his soul years ago and it was only a matter of time until some oil state takes the most interesting asset. as a fan i try to concentrate on the football, all else is in fact a big shitty business and has nothing to do with moral. moneywise as an owner quatar will be top of course - the stadium and facilities will be upgraded for once.
It doesn’t matter anymore. Football as we know it will soon be gone. There’s no win here for anyone. If it’s not us, it’s Liverpool or Spurs. A choice between a future of soulless victories or occasional moral ones but everyone on either side is gonna up as miserable and bitter as City fans.
State owned clubs have never sat well with me. But when all the teams around you are being taken over one by one at some point you have to accept that football has sold its soul - and nor will I pretend that the Glazer ownership hasn't done serious harm to uniteds already.
If we were going to see a big push across Europe to boot out all the billionaires and hedge funds and bring in fan owned models, then great. But if not? Qatar might as well buy us a best in class training ground instead of having an owner who has to make payments to goldman sachs.
I'm also not as invested in the current situation United are in as some other commenters. We have had a good couple of months, we are third in the league and on a good cup run - but look where we were 12 months ago. Plenty of work to do on and off the pitch whoever owns the club.
If we were going to see a big push across Europe to boot out all the billionaires and hedge funds and bring in fan owned models, then great. But if not? Qatar might as well buy us a best in class training ground instead of having an owner who has to make payments to goldman sachs.
I'm also not as invested in the current situation United are in as some other commenters. We have had a good couple of months, we are third in the league and on a good cup run - but look where we were 12 months ago. Plenty of work to do on and off the pitch whoever owns the club.
I wouldn't want the club owned by a human rights abusing state. However, I'm not sure it's much better to be owned by American billionaires. All the top clubs lost a big part of their soul when they were bought up by billionaires and international investment conglomerates and I'm afraid there's no way back.
I’m at the point where I just want the Glazer’s gone completely and the reality is because of how big we are as a brand there’s very few who can afford us without taking out loans which no matter what way you look at it would be down to the club to pay whether in dividends or owner payments, in an ideal world Jim Ratcliffe would buy us but his whole “it’s INEOS taking the loans on, not united” thing is bollocks as INEOS as a company aren’t going to just casually pay back £5 billion so Ratcliffe can have “his legacy”.
What people seem to forget is that we’re not going to be a state owned sportswashing plaything in the way City, PSG and Newcastle are as we’re arguably the biggest sporting brand on the planet and if it wasn’t for the £150+ million we spend every year on loans, interest and dividends we’d have the best stadium, training ground and infrastructure in world football off our own revenue.
Yes Qatar are doing it to gain more exposure and a positive spin on themselves but the reality is they’ve just hosted the World Cup and basically run UEFA so are firmly established in football regardless of whether they own us or not, football has become so big financially that it’s a big business rather than a sport.
To a degree we’re a victim of our own success as we grew so much under Sir Alex at the same time the Premier League and Champion's League were formed that we were bought in disgusting circumstances by those fecking inbred leeches and some how continued to grow so only the very richest are viable to take us over.
There’s a lot of very immoral things that go on in the Middle East but then, and I’m NOT defending the immoral things, there isn’t anyone out there with genuine power and deep pockets that is clean.
If Qatar simply buy us, renovate/rebuild Old Trafford to fulfil the massive potential as THE best stadium in the country, upgrade our training ground, upgrade facilities, build around the stadium and clear all our debt whilst letting ETH do his thing then I'm all for it as if it isn’t us it’ll be someone else as the Middle East is firmly involved in football whether we like or not and I won’t let things out of my control stop me wanting our club to be the best around.
What people seem to forget is that we’re not going to be a state owned sportswashing plaything in the way City, PSG and Newcastle are as we’re arguably the biggest sporting brand on the planet and if it wasn’t for the £150+ million we spend every year on loans, interest and dividends we’d have the best stadium, training ground and infrastructure in world football off our own revenue.
Yes Qatar are doing it to gain more exposure and a positive spin on themselves but the reality is they’ve just hosted the World Cup and basically run UEFA so are firmly established in football regardless of whether they own us or not, football has become so big financially that it’s a big business rather than a sport.
To a degree we’re a victim of our own success as we grew so much under Sir Alex at the same time the Premier League and Champion's League were formed that we were bought in disgusting circumstances by those fecking inbred leeches and some how continued to grow so only the very richest are viable to take us over.
There’s a lot of very immoral things that go on in the Middle East but then, and I’m NOT defending the immoral things, there isn’t anyone out there with genuine power and deep pockets that is clean.
If Qatar simply buy us, renovate/rebuild Old Trafford to fulfil the massive potential as THE best stadium in the country, upgrade our training ground, upgrade facilities, build around the stadium and clear all our debt whilst letting ETH do his thing then I'm all for it as if it isn’t us it’ll be someone else as the Middle East is firmly involved in football whether we like or not and I won’t let things out of my control stop me wanting our club to be the best around.
Finally, a poll. Thanks @Wumminator
I personally selected "Fine, no reservations." I am interested on the views of the ones who selected "Fine, but have some reservations." Out of curiosity, what are you reservations? Would be interesting to know.
I personally selected "Fine, no reservations." I am interested on the views of the ones who selected "Fine, but have some reservations." Out of curiosity, what are you reservations? Would be interesting to know.
I was hoping for an option between "Fine, with reservations" and "Not happy, still support" - in a vacuum it would probably be the latter, but they're almost guaranteed to be better owners than the parasitic Glazers, and I can't think of any person, business, consortium, etc in the modern world that can afford us that isn't at least morally questionable.
So yeah, better than our current leech owners is good, but it's sad that we're going to become an oil club.
So yeah, better than our current leech owners is good, but it's sad that we're going to become an oil club.
Happy in the morning, happy in the evening and happy all day long!! (Trudelutt)
No dept. No dividends. Owners who care about the clubs well being.
A new striker would complete my happiness. What’s it not to like?
(Some irony but as a whole I perfectly happy with the investors from Qatar and their future plans)
No dept. No dividends. Owners who care about the clubs well being.
A new striker would complete my happiness. What’s it not to like?
(Some irony but as a whole I perfectly happy with the investors from Qatar and their future plans)
Nice one
If you're not from Manchester, I can see why you wouldn't care.
Yikes
Very balanced post imo.
For me I feel quite sad. They haven't bought us yet I feel like less attached to the club as before with just the thought of my club being associated with such people. Probably these are the last days I can be as close to the club and as proud of being a fan. Trying to enjoy that as much as possible now.
I feel a bit conflicted. The current ownership model is so bad that I'm desperate for a change. It's unfair that our sporting ambitions have been held back for close to 20 years and will only continue to decline if the Glazers remain in power beyond this summer. I don't want us to be in a situation where we remain unable to compete due to the financial consequences of our current owners both placing debt on the club and actively pulling money out of it.
Equally, I would rather it wasn't Qatari money bailing us out. There are certainly ethical questions that come with that money, but as a fan I don't feel like I have any influence in that decision. The Glazers will try to make as much money as possible out of the club, just as they have always done. The moral responsibility here is largely on them, and as we know they're morally bankrupt.
I guess there's just an acceptance on my part that there's never going to be a perfect ownership model. There are very few people/organisations in this world capable of buying Manchester United, and out of those who are capable, there are even fewer who won't be linked in some way to dirty money. I'm not going to be withdrawing my support for the club on that basis, but I'm also not going to be celebrating those who spend the money.
Equally, I would rather it wasn't Qatari money bailing us out. There are certainly ethical questions that come with that money, but as a fan I don't feel like I have any influence in that decision. The Glazers will try to make as much money as possible out of the club, just as they have always done. The moral responsibility here is largely on them, and as we know they're morally bankrupt.
I guess there's just an acceptance on my part that there's never going to be a perfect ownership model. There are very few people/organisations in this world capable of buying Manchester United, and out of those who are capable, there are even fewer who won't be linked in some way to dirty money. I'm not going to be withdrawing my support for the club on that basis, but I'm also not going to be celebrating those who spend the money.
??Yikes