There's a few threads in the forum right now about Barcelona paying millions of euros to a vicepresident of the referee committee while Xavi was active.
So where is Modric rated in best CM’s of all time ?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
And produced the most clear chance for Croatia - basically a slalom run and a cross that should have been scored by Mandzukic - putting Spain out
I mean, it's not like you rated him before all that.
But that's neither here nor there.
I'm not saying he's greater than them because of his Croatia exploits though. I'm saying he's greater than them for a multitude of reasons. The fact that he managed to get an unfancied team such as Croatia consistently punching above its weight is a testament to his quality. I don't think you'd get the same level of performance if it was Xavi in that Croatia team instead of Modric.
That’s purely hypothetical though, Croatia’s style has mostly been possession based with some of the strongest midfields in international football. Brozovic, Kovacic, Rakitic have been his midfield partners, fine technical players in their own right. Xavi would fit into Croatia easier than most international teams.
Madrid were far jammier than prime Barca. Modric is phenomenal but not ahead of xavi and iniesta.
and madrid won the league prior to modric in 2012 in a record season over a better Barca than any season modric won the league with those respective Barca’s.
modric had what some see as the greatest CL player of all time,
Jammier than prime Barca who are paying off refs for favourable treatment?
And what some see as the greatest defender of all time, and a team that wasn't exactly cheap...
People worship 2011 Barca. They paid for reports not for the refs.
2011 is seen as the greatest club side ever, and yes, Madrid were fantastic but their CL runs always felt extremely jammy and their lack of league success during those CL winning years backs that.
the problem for me is that I only started really appreciating Modric recently as I never watched Spurs and hardly ever watched Madrid.
So he's not tattooed in my brain as some sort of an all-time great unless I analyze it coldly.
Scholes is my favorite player ever but I get the sense that he's slightly overrated amongst our fanbase,
what with them quotes and all.
Xavi... goddamn, what a player. the least likable of the Pep lot,
but he's surely on par with Matthaus, Rijkaard, and other players who I never saw live but understand that there's a consensus about them.
The nerve here.
You don't pay 7M€ to the ref VP por reports, mate. You pay them to influence the competitions.
You could say that Barca had a fantastic team but all the national competitions they won are of questionable value. Their smaller in comparison CL success during those years back that.
(During the 17 years Barca paid the ref VP they won 9 leagues and 4 CL. Madrid won more CL, 5 of those, and only 5 leagues)
Going back to the topic, the best I have seen are Modric and Xavi. One is an all-rounder that could thrive in any ecosystem and the other one is more system-specific but reached incredible heights in it. You can not go wrong with either of them. But, certainly, if I had to choose, I wouldn't base it in domestic success, as one team paid the ref VP and the other didn't.
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Ah yes, of course someone with your username is going to be normal and not biased. It was paid for reports, you can go live out your fantasy elsewhere.
I honestly can't think of a single player who was more overrated in world football than Xavi. I started watching football in 97, and Modric is the best "controlling" midfielder I've ever seen.
I’m a Barca fan, but I can understand this point of view. A four year period from 2008-2012 carries his legacy massively. Deco was considered a better player in 2006, for instance.
What do you even hope to achieve with this attitude. Barcelona is under criminal investigation. Every single institution in Spanish football is scandalized by what has been revealed. The only fantasy is believing that "nah it was legit" and then silence for an entire month is going to cut it.
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I'd love to have just been correcting your spelling/grammar but I'm not that anal. I was remarking on you saying that Modric is on par with Scholes. No way IMO. Players like Modric, Zidane, Iniesta, Xavi etc. are guys that have made their mark for club and country. Same can't be said for Scholes. We can make excuses for him (played out of position etc.) but posterity doesn't care about that. No disrespect to him, obviously a great player but not someone who is an all time great like the other guys; more a generational great.
Pirlo is a funny case, made a huge impact on international football (his 2006 World Cup is the best I’ve ever seen from a central midfielder) but is still usually rated below Xavi, Iniesta and Modric.
Perhaps “only” winning 2 Champions Leagues with Milan just wasn’t enough, in the modern era most Barca and Madrid legends have 4 or 5.
Scholes was not the level of those players internationally but I think he was good, if not outstanding in the 1998 and 2002 World Cups, England got to the quarter finals of 2002 and he played every game in the middle of the pitch. He was particularly good against Argentina, as they beat the pre-tournament favourites and they lost to the eventual winners Brazil, won by Ronaldinho’s lob over Seaman. I think his international career is slightly better than is given credit for, it’s just that it ended so soon because he retired from it at 29 and people felt he was leaving a bit in the tank.
Zidane overrated...
He made the likes of Keane and Viera chase shadows, he was one of if not the best midfielder of all time.
That's my opinion, I think if you asked Roy Keane he'd agree with me as well.
Iniesta and Modric the best I’ve ever seen.
Sure they did
if Barca are guilty of encouraging referees to benefit them ON the pitch then by all means relegate them. Nothing in the documentation released so far has any evidence of referees behaving differently on purpose.
but this Is where the trial comes in. If Barca are genuinely guilty of paying the refs themselves to benefit them then they should be punished.
Yep. They obviously had a great team, and Iniesta and Xavi are in contention for goat CM, but I dont think you can use their domestic success as proof or example of anything.
Zidane:
Champions League winner
Ballon D'Or winner
World Cup winner
World Cup Golden Ball winner
"Overrated!!!"
Imagine thinking Zidane is overrated
Do you know what overrated means
Xavi is not overrated either. What is wrong with people in here?!?
I can definitely understand 'Zidane is overrated' as an opinion.
I think he is generally rated well, but people sometimes go way too far.
For example here is a list of '50 greatest Real Madrid players' by FourFourTwo. He is ranked third.
That is just insane.
I think he is generally rated well, but people sometimes go way too far.
For example here is a list of '50 greatest Real Madrid players' by FourFourTwo. He is ranked third.
That is just insane.
Exactly. He’s clearly overrated. Doesn’t mean he wasn’t a spectacular player. It’s just people put him in tiers and arguments as greatest he doesn’t deserve to be in. Top 20 all time player, nowhere near top 5.
Overrated doesn't mean they're not good.Zidane:
Champions League winner
Ballon D'Or winner
World Cup winner
World Cup Golden Ball winner
"Overrated!!!"
Zidane gets propped into best ever debates and best midfielder ever claims.
Best 'controlling' midfielder you've ever seen despite being routinely dominated in midfield by other midfield units in UCL fixtures.
I mean I don't know how people are inventing things about Modric nowadays.
His longevity is amazing and he's an amazing midfielder, but we don't need to overexaggerate his abilities as some are doing lately.
There was a person on the cafe who scoffed at the notion that Xavi(Xavi of all people)was a better passer than him.
Which is exactly where he belongs
He absolutely does not. This is exactly why he's overrated.
He is nowhere near the 5 best players of all-time, but he constantly gets propped into this debate.
His entire career has been overly exaggerated because of his iconic moments(and he has loads of them).
People think he was the best player during the duration of the 1998 WC after his WC final and he wasn't. He had plenty of campaigns where he was wildly inconsistent throughout the season and had seasons where he was outperformed by a good amount of midfielders, but it all gets ignored because of his iconic moments.
Him and Ronaldinho are the most overrated players of all-time(Ronaldinho more-so, because he failed to perform for Brazil). When we're talking about the 5 best players ever or 'GOAT candidates', the standards are extremely high and Zidane falls short of them. If he was more consistent season upon season, he'd be up there, but he wasn't.
"rated or valued too highly."
Perfectly applies to Zidane and Ramos.
Some think Ramos is the best CB of all-time. An egregious opinion.
No he didn't.
Some of the worst opinions I've ever heard. Let's leave out 'all-time' because that gets complicated (who is better, Sindelaar or Sivori? etc...these questions can't be answered)
Zidane and Ronaldinho are comfortably among the top 10-15 players I've seen with my own two eyes and I watched them both play a lot and I've seen a lot of players.
Edit: Read the rest of your post. I have more clarity after initially being enraged by the nonsense therein.
So who are the best 5 players you've seen? In order please
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Depending on where you draw the line for midfielders, he kind of is
I mean top 10-15 is arguable for both. I wouldn't put Ronaldinho in my top 10 personally and not Zidane either.
I did outline why I consider both overrated. For what it's worth, I am not saying they're not incredible.
If it's talent alone, I'd put them higher, but I can't rate just on talent alone. It's what you do with the talent. I don't consider CR7 one of the 5 most talented players ever for what it's worth and most would found that a laughable stance.
My 5 best are: Messi, Pele, Maradona, Di Stefano and CR7. And I constantly flip between Messi, Pele and Maradona for 1st.
If it's talent only though, CR7 wouldn't be in my top 5 and I'd put Ronaldo Nazario in there instead.