Club Sale | It’s done!

[sglowrider]

Not the same guy I think

Well, I may be wrong -- who knows. But I never assume others don't know better ie Raine Group. I mean, the first round of the process is to establish whether the person has the funds to do the deal.

Are we assuming that Raine doesn't know what they are doing? What about the BOA guys? They are this far down the track, other questions should be asked. Not whether the guy exists.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Well, I may be wrong -- who knows. But I never assume others don't know better ie Raine Group.

Oh I agree on that. Guy is real for sure.

 

[MackRobinson]

Do you genuinely believe this or are just being willfully obtuse?

Did you genuinely ask this question or did you purposely not bother to understand the context?

 

[red thru&thru]

What does that video have to do with who will fund the bid? I feel like you're doing a lot of handwaving and misdirection, for a really simple question.

I'm merely answering your question as you keep asking what has Jassim's dad got to do with it. If you watch the video, you'll know exactly what his dad has got to do with it.

I'm giving you the source of the information. Will be interesting to read your reaction after you watch it.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Thats just silly.

Are you saying that Raine Group has been hoodwinked?

Spoiler: Google is your friend

https://www.linkedin.com/in/h-e-sheikh-jassim-bin-mohamed-al-thani-3951a41a5/?originalSubdomain=qa

Spoiler

 

[Marcelinho87]

A question that isn't getting nearly enough attention it deserves.

It's a pointless question is why, nobody knows how much he's worth.

Just because a publication throws a number at it doesn't deem it true. The likes of those Royal Family members in Qatar, Saudi etc rarely disclose their finances, less so to western publications.

 

[red thru&thru]

You really believe Nice can challenge PSG for titles within three years?

What have we got to go on with the Qatari bid running a club, given the consortium involved in the bid have never run a club before?

People in this thread are also getting way to fixated with Qatar and how they will apparently throw money at anything just to get their shiny toy.
That is far from the case, they will walk away if they feel they are not getting value for their money, they are business men at heart and are in it to earn money just like everyone else.
Churlish and stupid to think otherwise.

So, what is the timeframe in which Nice should be competing with PSG? Bearing in mind SJR is the one who said they'd be competing with them.

And you believe INEOS will purchase Manchester United because of their undying love of the club?

And when you say "throw money at anything", where have I said this?

 

[sglowrider]

It's a pointless question is why, nobody knows how much he's worth.

Just because a publication throws a number at it doesn't deem it true. The likes of those Royal Family members in Qatar, Saudi etc rarely disclose their finances, less so to western publications.

Besides, we don't know at this point, who are the stakeholders within the 92 Foundation. There are just a lot of details that we are unlikely to know unless we are involved in the deal. Full stop.

Everything that is being said in this thread (unless statements from the bidders or Raine) are to be taken with a grain of salt. All purely speculative.

 

[Marcelinho87]

Besides, we don't know at this point, who are the stakeholders within the 92 Foundation. There are just a lot of details that we are unlikely to know unless we are involved in the deal. Full stop.

Everything that is being said in this thread (unless statements from the bidders or Raine) are to be taken with a grain of salt. All purely speculative.

Correct, and our thoughts and feelings overall matter very little too.

 

[Suv666]

Now I'm a cynical cnut, so perhaps I'm being too harsh here, but I do wonder if perhaps part of what's going on is that some of the people claiming not to believe this is a state backed bid actually kind of know this is a state backed bid.

Its obviously a state backed bid. Some people are just lying to themselves.

 

[DownRiver]

Anyone seen his picture wearing a Man Utd top since the days of the announcement that he is in the running?

Very odd how it has not been used in every article related to him.

I once saw that the picture was actually fake, but it came from a private instagram?

 

[MF1138]

Whatever way you look at it Jassim's personal wealth raises big questions that people have every right to ask, particularly when Ineos are being questioned on their very provable and easily verifiable ability to afford the club.

There are people here who both want to lay claim to his bid being much better for the club from a financial position but also distance it from being the state backed bid that makes it true.

The only currently varifiable way he can afford the club is through state backing. He isn't believed to have the necessary wealth nor is his immediate family. That doesn't mean for certain they don't have but it sure as hell raises questions. If not the state then where is the money coming from? (Don't answer that because you don't know)

Anyone who is claiming it's the best deal for the club should be honest and admit they think he's backed by the Qatari state. If you don't think he is then you really don't have any evidence to think he's the sugar daddy you crave.

Want whoever you want but be realistic about what they all are.

 

[tenpoless]

Anyone seen his picture wearing a Man Utd top since the days of the announcement that he is in the running?

Very odd how it has not been used in every article related to him.

I once saw that the picture was actually fake, but it came from a private instagram?

That pic was being circulated when the news first came out, probably for clicks and so people believe theres a truth in it. But now that they have come out publically, maybe theres no reason to use it anymore.

 

[Mindhunter]

nobody can really answer this, because the information isn’t available anywhere

it’s funny that everyone looks at Ineos and Jim as the poor ones here when they have way more provable wealth

He is a front for his father and most probably the Qatari regime. I don't think it is that hard to put together. So what's the issue here?

Jim has more provable wealth? Yeah, of course. He owns Nice and the Qatari's own PSG with Messi, Neymar, and Mbappe. That's provable wealth for you. Jim on the other hand isn't even worth what the Glazers are asking for their majority stake in the club, let alone the full thing.

With Jim, we will be kicking the can down the road again. Yes, it won't be as bad as the Glazers because I don't expect him to take money out but those are really low standards. We have been competing in a swimming competition with a tonne of iron tied to our leg. It is time to break the shackles. Else, they will pick up another club and all our rivals will ultimately be owned by owners with deep pockets while we will continue to scramble under the weight of our enormous debt which won't be going anywhere.

If the PL and the UK government allows Abu Dhabi to buy City and the Saudi's to buy Newcastle then the writing is clearly on the wall. Some folks here seem to be living in the last century where Man Utd is still a local club. It is a global behemoth now - like it or hate it. It is too big an entity to be left behind so we need to play the game.

 

[Tarrou]

He is a front for his father and most probably the Qatari regime. I don't think it is that hard to put together. So what's the issue here?

Jim has more provable wealth? Yeah, of course. He owns Nice and the Qatari's own PSG with Messi, Neymar, and Mbappe. That's provable wealth for you. Jim on the other hand isn't even worth what the Glazers are asking for their majority stake in the club, let alone the full thing.

With Jim, we will be kicking the can down the road again. Yes, it won't be as bad as the Glazers because I don't expect him to take money out but those are really low standards. We have been competing in a swimming competition with a tonne of iron tied to our leg. It is time to break the shackles. Else, they will pick up another club and all our rivals will ultimately be owned by owners with deep pockets while we will continue to scramble under the weight of our enormous debt which won't be going anywhere.

If the PL and the UK government allows Abu Dhabi to buy City and the Saudi's to buy Newcastle then the writing is clearly on the wall. Some folks here seem to be living in the last century where Man Utd is still a local club. It is a global behemoth now - like it or hate it. It is too big an entity to be left behind so we need to play the game.

yeah we all know he's a front for the Qatari regime, that's the entire point

 

[Wumminator]

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[whitbyviking]

Daddy is extremely wealthy and has more than enough.

Daddy has stated he is not that keen on this project, and doesn't normally get involved in these type of things. This is all his sons.

Because INEOS will need to borrow to buy us. Their whole company isn’t worth what what glazers want.

We won’t want huge investments. We need someone to clear our debts so that we can use our own money. Sky will be the limit for us if that happens.

Qatar will also be borrowing, most likely from state investors. They are treating this as an investment backed by the investors involved in the bank Sheikh Jassim manages, the main of whom is the state

nobody can really answer this, because the information isn’t available anywhere

it’s funny that everyone looks at Ineos and Jim as the poor ones here when they have way more provable wealth

Indeed, the characterisation of Ineos as some sort of clown organisation is ridiculous. Their worth and their growth is extremely impressive. Their business model is also very sound.

Besides, we don't know at this point, who are the stakeholders within the 92 Foundation. There are just a lot of details that we are unlikely to know unless we are involved in the deal. Full stop.

Everything that is being said in this thread (unless statements from the bidders or Raine) are to be taken with a grain of salt. All purely speculative.

So, looking at what is available just in this thread and the media it is pretty safe to assume who the stakeholders in the bid would be. There isn't an infinite supply of billionaires in Qatar. All money traces back to the state, there are just differing degrees of separation.

As for the Nice stuff, if we didn't immediately challenge for titles against Manchester City would Qatar be considered hopeless at running a club. Us, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham all had a far higher starting point than Nice, and we barely challenge the oil club who regularly win titles. Nice are coming from nothing and learning on the job. Characterising it as a failure is reaching a bit.

The political accusations made against Ineos are bewildering when these people are in fact denegrating him to support a regime that is infinitely more xenophobic, discriminatory, unequal etc etc.

Both these takeovers would be better than the Glazers. I think both will ultimately achieve the same end results, one might (and it's a big might) be quicker to do that if they tap into the wealth of the Qatari state.

It's time people hold their hands up and just admit it's all about the perceived money. They want the oil state money. They want to be like City, PSG and Chelsea when it comes to transfers (despite the fact that we have been more or less at that level, and we are only in the situation we are now because the Glazers and their cronies were incompetent).

 

[whitbyviking]

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As for that clown Delaney more or less all clubs are autocracies to a degree. There are already plenty of dubious characters around the league, he just has a clear agenda against United.

 

[Tarrou]

As for the Nice stuff, if we didn't immediately challenge for titles against Manchester City would Qatar be considered hopeless at running a club. Us, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham all had a far higher starting point than Nice, and we barely challenge the oil club who regularly win titles. Nice are coming from nothing and learning on the job. Characterising it as a failure is reaching a bit.

The political accusations made against Ineos are bewildering when these people are in fact denegrating him to support a regime that is infinitely more xenophobic, discriminatory, unequal etc etc.

Both these takeovers would be better than the Glazers. I think both will ultimately achieve the same end results, one might (and it's a big might) be quicker to do that if they tap into the wealth of the Qatari state.

It's time people hold their hands up and just admit it's all about the perceived money. They want the oil state money. They want to be like City, PSG and Chelsea when it comes to transfers (despite the fact that we have been more or less at that level, and we are only in the situation we are now because the Glazers and their cronies were incompetent).

not sure what happened there, but in the bit you quoted from me I didn't say the bolded part (I said the first bit though).. although, I do agree with the erroneous part so no harm done

 

[Mindhunter]

yeah we all know he's a front for the Qatari regime, that's the entire point

No. The point is - so what? As long as they aren't actively undermining human rights in the UK or doing it by using Man Utd as a platform then I don't care. It is a competitive sport. If other teams are allowed to get sovereign wealth funds as owners then we would be foolish to take the high road and revel in mid-table mediocrity to make a point. A point which, by the way, even the UK govt doesn't make.

The PL pushed us down this path by allowing Glazers to buy us and then allowing sports washing projects like City and now Newcastle. The debt is now so big that even a year of mismanagement will bring the whole house down.

 

[Tarrou]

No. The point is - so what? As long as they aren't actively undermining human rights in the UK or doing it by using Man Utd as a platform then I don't care. It is a competitive sport. If other teams are allowed to get sovereign wealth funds as owners then we would be foolish to take the high road and revel in mid-table mediocrity to make a point. A point which, by the way, even the UK govt doesn't make.

The PL pushed us down this path by allowing Glazers to buy us and then allowing sports washing projects like City and now Newcastle. The debt is now so big that even a year of mismanagement will bring the whole house down.

the discussion was about people claiming it isn't a state backed bid not scrutinising his source of wealth..

unfortunately you've taken the quote out of context, so apologies on my part if my post was confusing

 

[sglowrider]

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What? Being the resident top-top United supporter, you are now relying on the words of an Irish/Spanish pundit who wasn't even born close to OT.

What's going on?

 

[Mindhunter]

the discussion was about people claiming it isn't a state backed bid not scrutinising his source of wealth..

unfortunately you've taken the quote out of context, so apologies on my part if my post was confusing

Got it. My bad in that case. People who are claiming this is definitely not state-backed don't have a leg to stand on.

My sense is that it is mostly his father and we all know the source of his wealth. In fact, it needs to be state backed for this to make any sense and to be of long-term benefit to us.

 

[Tarrou]

Got it. My bad in that case. People who are claiming this is definitely not state-backed don't have a leg to stand on.

My sense is that it is mostly his father and we all know the source of his wealth. In fact, it needs to be state backed for this to make any sense and to be of long-term benefit to us.

Yeah, I don't think anyone has made a reasonable case for it to be a private bid. This guy would've had to be making insane wealth in stealth mode his entire life.

Just as a thought experiment. How much wealth do you need to afford to spend say $10bn on a football club (amount needed for takeover and stadium)? You surely can't do that with *only* $20bn in wealth right? You'd have to be a financial moron to drop half your entire net worth into a football team, and this guy is apparently only doing it because his son is a fan. It just doesn't add up at all.

 

[Wumminator]

What? Being the resident top-top United supporter, you are now relying on the words of an Irish/Spanish pundit who wasn't even born close to OT.

What's going on?

I’m only in this thread to post relevant updates and not get drawn into ridiculous debates like “I don’t give a feck about Manchester” which was actually posted by a member of this forum. However, I think I will have to make use of the ignore list in this case because I abhor any forms of racism and can’t believe we have posts like this.

they all look alike to me!

 

[Champ]

So, what is the timeframe in which Nice should be competing with PSG? Bearing in mind SJR is the one who said they'd be competing with them.

And you believe INEOS will purchase Manchester United because of their undying love of the club?

And when you say "throw money at anything", where have I said this?

There was no timeframe, but to take on PSG beginning from Nice's position you'd have to say 5 to 10 years would be feasible.
It's been little over three years so far, they have been in one final, are now in a European quarter final and stand a good chance of European qualification again so far.
I'd say given the financial restraints the club has with FFP and the like, progress has been steady and they look to be on the right path after a shaky start to INEOs reign.

Do you believe Qatar will buy the club for their undying love of the club?
All bids are from business people, people that will want to make money from this venture.


Didn't say you'd said anything about throwing money, it was more a blanket statement about several people saying likewise.

 

[whitbyviking]

not sure what happened there, but in the bit you quoted from me I didn't say the bolded part (I said the first bit though).. although, I do agree with the erroneous part so no harm done

The bolded parts were my responses. There was so much to respond I got carried away

 

[devilish]

As for the Nice stuff, if we didn't immediately challenge for titles against Manchester City would Qatar be considered hopeless at running a club. Us, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham all had a far higher starting point than Nice, and we barely challenge the oil club who regularly win titles. Nice are coming from nothing and learning on the job. Characterising it as a failure is reaching a bit.

The political accusations made against Ineos are bewildering when these people are in fact denegrating him to support a regime that is infinitely more xenophobic, discriminatory, unequal etc etc.

Both these takeovers would be better than the Glazers. I think both will ultimately achieve the same end results, one might (and it's a big might) be quicker to do that if they tap into the wealth of the Qatari state.

It's time people hold their hands up and just admit it's all about the perceived money. They want the oil state money. They want to be like City, PSG and Chelsea when it comes to transfers (despite the fact that we have been more or less at that level, and we are only in the situation we are now because the Glazers and their cronies were incompetent).

Prior to being bought by INEOS, Nice were 7th place. They are 7th place at the moment. That means that there are 6 other clubs ahead of it in the pecking order only one of whom is oil rich. But let's have analyse INEOS statements at Nice and Lausanne

Sir Jim Ratcliffe, Chairman of INEOS said: ‘We are absolutely delighted about acquiring OGC Nice. It has been quite a long journey getting here, but it is unique, and we were determined to complete the purchase of the club. We have looked at a lot of clubs in the manner we look at businesses in INEOS - for value and potential - and Nice fulfils that criteria. With some sensible, measured investment, we want to establish OGC Nice as a team that competes in European club competition on a regular basis. And importantly, sustain it.”

European club competition on a regular basis has not been achieved.

David Thompson, CEO INEOS Football SA, says, “INEOS is excited about taking this major step into top-class football as part of our wider commitment to encourage youth sport in Lausanne and Canton Vaud. We hope and expect that this new investment in the team will take Football Club Lausanne-Sport forward to further success, and we see no reason why this could not mean playing in Europe.”

Lausanne has been relegated....twice.

So yeah both projects had failed to reach the expectations set.

 

[sglowrider]

Yeah, I don't think anyone has made a reasonable case for it to be a private bid. This guy would've had to be making insane wealth in stealth mode his entire life.

Just as a thought experiment. How much wealth do you need to afford to spend say $10bn on a football club (amount needed for takeover and stadium)? You surely can't do that with *only* $20bn in wealth right? You'd have to be a financial moron to drop half your entire net worth into a football team, and this guy is apparently only doing it because his son is a fan. It just doesn't add up at all.

Time will tell. Only when we find out who the stakeholders on the Foundation are, if they win the bid then we can make any judgement. Like I said before it seems like the two parties have different business models.

 

[whitbyviking]

Prior to being bought by INEOS, Nice were 7th place. They are 7th place at the moment. That means that there are 6 other clubs ahead of it in the pecking order only one of whom is oil rich. But let's have analyse INEOS statements at Nice and Lausanne

Sir Jim Ratcliffe, Chairman of INEOS said: ‘We are absolutely delighted about acquiring OGC Nice. It has been quite a long journey getting here, but it is unique, and we were determined to complete the purchase of the club. We have looked at a lot of clubs in the manner we look at businesses in INEOS - for value and potential - and Nice fulfils that criteria. With some sensible, measured investment, we want to establish OGC Nice as a team that competes in European club competition on a regular basis. And importantly, sustain it.”

European club competition on a regular basis has not been achieved.

David Thompson, CEO INEOS Football SA, says, “INEOS is excited about taking this major step into top-class football as part of our wider commitment to encourage youth sport in Lausanne and Canton Vaud. We hope and expect that this new investment in the team will take Football Club Lausanne-Sport forward to further success, and we see no reason why this could not mean playing in Europe.”

Lausanne has been relegated....twice.

So yeah both projects had failed to reach the expectations set.

How long have they owned Lausanne? What were the timescales given? Nice have been trending up, you don't just change things overnight. PSG are so entrenched, along with other richer clubs, that it will take a time to overhaul them within FFP, as others have already mentioned.

Just admit you want the filthy lucre.

 

[sglowrider]

Just admit you want the filthy lucre.

Wait... did I miss the memo? The Qataris are giving us the fans money?

Feck. sign me up then.

 

[whitbyviking]

Time will tell. Only when we find out who the stakeholders on the Foundation are, if they win the bid then we can make any judgement. Like I said before it seems like the two parties have different business models.

Tarrou hit the nail on the head.

 

[red thru&thru]

There was no timeframe, but to take on PSG beginning from Nice's position you'd have to say 5 to 10 years would be feasible.
It's been little over three years so far, they have been in one final, are now in a European quarter final and stand a good chance of European qualification again so far.
I'd say given the financial restraints the club has with FFP and the like, progress has been steady and they look to be on the right path after a shaky start to INEOs reign.

Do you believe Qatar will buy the club for their undying love of the club?
All bids are from business people, people that will want to make money from this venture.


Didn't say you'd said anything about throwing money, it was more a blanket statement about several people saying likewise.

Well, I'm taking the words from SJR. He said he wants to compete with PSG.

Jassim will be buying the club as an opportunity to buy one of the biggest and well known institutions in the world. And of course, money is to be made. When you purchase something of that value and prestige, you'll do all you can to make it work.

So, is INEOS buying United for their undying love of the club?

 

[Champ]

Well, I'm taking the words from SJR. He said he wants to compete with PSG.

Jassim will be buying the club as an opportunity to buy one of the biggest and well known institutions in the world. And of course, money is to be made. When you purchase something of that value and prestige, you'll do all you can to make it work.

So, is INEOS buying United for their undying love of the club?

Course Nice want to compete with PSG, they'd be stupid not too want that as they are the team to beat in France.
Not sure what the issue is with that?

Did you not read my last post?

All buyers are business men, they are buying for business reasons primarily.
With Qatar there is the other added element of state influence and 'sportswashing'.

As for what you say about doing all you can do to make it work, the same applies for any potential buyer surely?

 

[Sir Erik ten Hag]

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If only they were crying this much when City and Newcastle were bought too.
If there is one thing I can't stand even more than a totalitarian reign, it's double standard.

 

[devilish]

How long have they owned Lausanne? What were the timescales given? Nice have been trending up, you don't just change things overnight. PSG are so entrenched, along with other richer clubs, that it will take a time to overhaul them within FFP, as others have already mentioned.

Just admit you want the filthy lucre.

Lausanne has been bought in 2017. Since then they had been relegated twice.

Let's put all cards on the table. I am pro Qatari but I am not anti Ratcliffe. I believe that these two bids are, from what we know, the two best options. If Qatar doesn't sign us then I hope that Ratcliffe gets us as they are way better options then the Glazers. My take is this

A- I can't understand the scandal of owners putting their money were their mouth is. I don't give a feck of how much money Jassim, the Glazers or Ratcliffe have in the bank. What I do care about is how much money they invest in the club. There's nothing smart and laudable in being skint especially if the clubs they own linger at 7th place or are constantly being relegated + their fans had been lied to.

B- both options has had a big issue in terms of club management, some of whom are worse then the Glazers did. I think that the Qatari mismanagement (which is there btw as I disagree with them giving silly salaries to players like Ramos or having the owners mingling with the players) is highlighted too much in here and too much stress is made on their lack of a CL (SAF with all his pomp won it just 2 times and both were lucky). Meanwhile Nice/Lausanne's mismanagement has not been highlighted enough (ex giving 170k a week to Ramsay, buying/loaning an army of washed up players such as Barkley, Ramsay, Pepe, involving some racist as external advisor). The fact that SJR keeps involving his brother and some bicycle man in football matters with a chequered reputation doesn't inspire me with confidence either.

The difference between the two is that while Qatari are ready to throw money at the problem to ratify their mistakes, Ratcliffe doesn't seem to have that ambition. As said I think that the Qatari bid is the best out of the two but in reality I only care about United. If a better buyer comes in or new information comes out from Ratcliffe camp that impress me than I would swiftly change my stance

 

[Brophs]

If only they were crying this much when City and Newcastle were bought too.
If there is one thing I can's stand even more than a totalitarian reign, it's double standard.

 

[Sly1]

@ MackRobinson

I think you need to read the statements from both camp.

Jassim 's statement was very rich in comparison to SJR.

In addition, I think we shouldn't dwell too much on the information we are getting online concerning the net worth of people especially those from some parts os the world like Middle East,Africa,etc.

Most of these net worth figures are deceptive and do not represent the actual figures on the ground. Many people would want to keep their things low profile and I see Sheikh Jassim and his father as an example.

I believe the Nine Two foundation would tell us more once they win the bid.

 

[Spoony]

Yeah well that's one of his principles.

 

[Brophs]

Yeah well that's one of his principles.

If there is one thing I can's stand even more than a genocide, it's when people don’t cough into their elbow.