Why Man Utd’s Treble In 1999 Would Always Be Superior To Manchester City’s In 2023 (F365 article)

[The Corinthian]

Was reading this article earlier and it makes some great points -

United were first
Who was the second person to run a four-minute mile? Who was the second climber to the summit of Everest?

United were the first team to win the Treble and that’s important. It means the achievement will always be synonymous with them. If City pull it off, fair f***s. But they aren’t breaking new ground. United were trailblazers in 1999. Twenty-four years on, City are just following in their footsteps.

Granted, United weren’t the first European side to do it. Or even the first British club. Celtic, PSV and Ajax all completed the set but, coming from farmers’ leagues, two of the three parts were almost gimmes. No-one under 50 years old saw Celtic’s and Ajax’s Trebles, while PSV won only three games en route to the European Cup in 1988, including no wins from the quarter-final onwards, which merits a great big honking asterisk by the trophy in the club museum. Not as big as the one next to City’s mind.

So United were the first English team to win any Treble, and the first European side to win a proper one.

United did it in style
For many United fans, football – nay, life – peaked on May 26, 1999. At the very back of spattered minds that glorious Wednesday night was the nagging thought that never, ever would it be this good again.

Matt Dickinson had it right in his book ‘1999: Manchester United, The Treble And All That’: ‘Another English team will win the Treble one day. But they cannot possibly win it like this.’

United’s route to winning it all was an adrenaline-fuelled head f*** of a rollercoaster, ridden though weeks of glorious, petrifying jeopardy. The highs were so because United were terrifyingly close to the lows. It could have fallen apart at any moment and so often it nearly did.

The Premier League title race went to the final boot of the ball between United and an Arsenal side already proven winners. In the FA Cup came the comeback against Liverpool. The semi-final, against that double-hard Arsenal team, taken to a replay and extra-time only by a last-minute penalty save from Peter Schmeichel. Still swinging but down to 10 men and on the ropes, Ryan Giggs went and scored one of the greatest goals of all time.

And then there’s the Nou Camp. United were poor in the Champions League final, which only heightened the buzz when Bayern – themselves chasing a Treble – were left on their backs while their ribbons were hurriedly removed from the European Cup after Teddy Sheringham’s sweep and Ole Gunnar Solskjaer’s poke had not only dragged the Red Devils back from the dead but delivered them to the promised land. No European Cup has been won like that before or since that night in Barcelona, and certainly no Treble has been secured amid such a frenzy.

City are bloody brilliant but where’s the jeopardy? Where’s the drama? Maybe it’s still to come but Pep’s brand of ruthless efficiency is hardly material for a blockbuster thriller. You couldn’t write the 1999 script. In 2023, you probably couldn’t sell it.

I'd encourage you to read the full article - bit hesitant to post everything due to the site rules.

 

[bringbackbebe]

It frankly doesn't matter. If City win the treble, they deserve it from the footballing side and all credits to them. Many teams have had expensively assembled, doped squads before but have failed to win the CL, let alone dominate like City in a tough league while also winning the treble.

Our job now is to put all our efforts to make sure they don't do it. It's in our hands.

 

[The Corinthian]

It frankly doesn't matter. If City win the treble, they deserve it from the footballing side and all credits to them. Many teams have had expensively assembled, doped squads before but have failed to win the CL, let alone dominate like City in a tough league while also winning the treble.

Our job now is to put all our efforts to make sure they don't do it. It's in our hands.

I mean that's nonsense. The footballing side is enabled due to them circumventing and breaking FFP rules. If they adhere to FFP, then they wouldn't be able to sign certain players and hence the footballing side wouldn't work.

 

[BusbyMalone]

It frankly doesn't matter. If City win the treble, they deserve it from the footballing side and all credits to them. Many teams have had expensively assembled, doped squads before but have failed to win the CL, let alone dominate like City in a tough league while also winning the treble.

Our job now is to put all our efforts to make sure they don't do it. It's in our hands.

Why are you highlighting "footballing side"?. The footballing side is the direct result of their rampant cheating.

 

[Chairman Steve]

I feel back in 1999 that English clubs were lagging behind the clubs from Spain, Italy and Germany, so it felt more of an achievement that United won the Champions League, especially beating the best teams from those countries along the way. The gauntlet of Barcelona, Inter Milan, Juventus and Bayern Munich was a formidable task for any English club back then.

These days English clubs are the top dogs, are expected to do well and pretty much win the thing. It’s kinda been that way since the late noughties when the Premier League boom took place and the classic Top 4 of United, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea were constantly making quarter finals, semi finals and finals (all four of them went to a final at some point).

 

[The Corinthian]

I feel back in 1999 that English clubs were lagging behind the clubs from Spain, Italy and Germany, so it felt more of an achievement that United won the Champions League, especially beating the best teams from those countries along the way. The gauntlet of Barcelona, Inter Milan, Juventus and Bayern Munich was a formidable task for any English club back then.

These days English clubs are the top dogs, are expected to do well and pretty much win the thing.

Yup - I agree with this. I think the other thing is there were so many moments where it could have gone up in smoke for us. Winning an FA Cup semi-final against our closest rivals with 10 men, and a penalty being saved and one of, if not, the greatest FA Cup goal being the decider...that's the stuff of dreams.

And then factoring in what happened in the CL final as well. Two goals in 2 minutes when there's 90+1 on the clock...you can't script that. Bayern were chasing their own treble at the time as well.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

I mean that's nonsense. The footballing side is enabled due to them circumventing and breaking FFP rules. If they adhere to FFP, then they wouldn't be able to sign certain players and hence the footballing side wouldn't work.

It amazes me the amount of people that fail to grasp this point.

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

Our '99 season was obviously both much more dramatic and much more impressive for a number of reasons. Sure, we didn't get as many points in the PL as City, and we weren't as dominant, but we actually lost fewer games in total that season (3 in PL, 1 in League Cup + CS) than they have this season (4 in PL, 1 in League Cup + CS). We went the last 33 games of the season undefeated, which is remarkable given we had extremely difficult draws in both the FA Cup and the CL. That team just refused to lose. Plus the league was much closer back then, and English clubs were far from the top dogs in Europe.

Oh, and we did it with a big core of the team having come out of our own academy, while City have cheated.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

The drama of it, as pointed out in that article, was a huge thing in the romance of it. Nearly lost out in the league, were a Giggs wonder goal away from going out the FA Cup, and then obviously we know how they won the CL.

City will probably win it from here but urgh, who cares. Very boring, straightforward with the hero of the story being an absent corrupt billionaire who hires lots of lawyers.

 

[adexkola]

There is no need for any United fan to feel insecure about City's (potential) treble.

I for one hope we win 5 "boring" trebles in a row starting next season.

 

[Raees]

The standard of competition United faced was much higher IMO. That is not even taking into account the drama aspect. United's treble was unquestionably greater but fair play to City for pulling it off if they do - magnificent achievement in its own right.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

The United treble is probably the best and most dramatic in history and one of the greatest moments in all of sport.

Just the Champions League final alone, beating Bayern Munich in the final with two goals in stoppage time - when have you ever seen that?

But also even the FA Cup alone was one of the best ever runs to that.

Beating a great Arsenal side in the FA Cup with Schmeichel saving the penalty and Keane sent off - then with 10 men Giggs scoring one of the best goals in the competition history.
Beating Liverpool with two stoppage time goals in an earlier round.
Beating Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal en route to the final.

Then the Champions League:

The greatest group stage games ever? Barcelona 3-3 United home and away, unbelievable.
Coming out of a group with La Liga champs Barca and Bayern Munich, the next best team in Europe
Beating Inter Milan and Juve in consecutive ties. Beating Juventus, away from home, from 2 goals down! This was a team that made the previous two Champions League finals and had the great Zinedine Zidane and Edgar Davids in midfield, but Roy Keane bossed them. It felt back then that shattered a lot of established truths about European football - Italian teams don't lose from 2 goals down at home, English sides don't beat them away.

Even the Premier League run-in was exciting, with United going behind in the game against Spurs.

---

What City moments this season can compare to those for drama? Honestly, can't think of any. Thrashing Real Madrid was memorable, if not dramatic. Arsenal game was a walkover, as was Bayern Munich. At least last season Liverpool were chasing and they went 2 down to Villa.

It's actually in City's interest strangely enough to struggle in the two finals coming up. Give people something to remember. A bit of adversity.

 

[miked99]

I feel back in 1999 that English clubs were lagging behind the clubs from Spain, Italy and Germany, so it felt more of an achievement that United won the Champions League, especially beating the best teams from those countries along the way. The gauntlet of Barcelona, Inter Milan, Juventus and Bayern Munich was a formidable task for any English club back then.

These days English clubs are the top dogs, are expected to do well and pretty much win the thing. It’s kinda been that way since the late noughties when the Premier League boom took place and the classic Top 4 of United, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea were constantly making quarter finals, semi finals and finals (all four of them went to a final at some point).

This really can't be overstated enough. It's hard to remember now just how far behind English clubs had fallen behind in the years we were excluded from Europe. It wasn't just a gap, it was a yawning chasm. Not just in skill and technical ability but in know how and experience. How many times did we get schooled by that monolithic Juventus side? They seemed completely unbeatable. And yet, slowly we learned to find a way to compete. It took a long time.

Just one of many reasons why the Treble was so impressive. As a fan, we completed football that night and I knew in that moment that I could never and would never have a feeling like that again.

 

[TheGame]

Also worth remembering Arsenal pushed the title to the wire that season and we still had to win that final game against Spurs (which we fell behind in ). All of the fans going on about league points in past seasons fail to grasp of the separate context for each season.

 

[BootsyCollins]

I think the main reason our is superior is that it actually happened.

 

[arthurka]

City are a great footballing side no doubt, but they will never ever have the charisma of the 99 side.

 

[Vernon Philander]

The first is almost always the hardest. English clubs were dire in Europe up to that point (and for a while after too).

The PL was not the powerhouse either, the majority of stars went to Italy in the 90s, so it was a far tougher assignment to break through that

 

[TsuWave]

The way these platforms appeal to/take advantage of football fans insecurity is so shameless, but funny.

Alas, none of this will matter if they don’t get it, and we still have a say in it. Hopefully the players will be fired up for it.

Hold the door. No one shall pass. Gandalf and all that jazz.

 

[11101]

The football world is a different place now. We were not supposed to win in 1999 and it was incredibly the way we did it.

City with their cheating is different. Everybody expects them to win it, it's just a matter of when. In fact I expect them to win a few, but like unlimited saves on Championship Manager it's all a bit boring.

I would be gutted if Liverpool or even Arsenal did it. City though will always have an asterisk next to it, and if the PL have any guts a whole lot more.

 

[Siorac]

Celtic, PSV and Ajax all completed the set but, coming from farmers’ leagues, two of the three parts were almost gimmes.

Oh ffs. Even for a tongue-in-cheek article, that is stupid.

 

[BarryWinks]

Why is everyone acting like they've won it? They may yet finish with just the premier league title this season. So much disrespect to us and Inter with the way the media are going about it. You feel they are willing it to happen to they can have all summer to argue about which side is greater. Cnuts.

 

[Red_Aaron]

Didn't our squad contain 7 players from the academy that all received a set of medals

Who do they have? Foden, anyone else?

 

[Rista]

In reality, nobody really cares that their potential win is "boring" or "soulless". Our treble will always be more special to us but others don't see it the same way. If it doesn't happen now, it probably will soon. It is what it is.

 

[Eli Zee]

Who cares?
People on this forum used to say "look, Arsenal / Liverpool haven't won ______ in x amount of years," as if it makes any diffference. We have been shit for a decade. People here are obsessed with history because we can't compare or compete in the present... It gets so tiring to listen to you guys say stuff like this... putting other teams achievements down just to lift us up. It's honestly pathetic and no one cares. Move on from the past already.

Since we last won the league 10 years ago, we've accumulated a total goal difference of +205. City: +585. Liverpool: +391.

 

[RickRudesDong]

City's treble will be more impressive. They've outplayed everyone; we didn't.

Off-field issues aside, non-United fans will remember ours as a rollercoaster ride and theirs as the best PL team ever.

 

[Spoony]

Our Treble was pure Hollywood. Good old Escape to Victory.

 

[Von Mistelroum]

City's treble, much like their title wins, means absolutely nothing to me. I don't consider it to be valid and I don't consider this team to be Man City either.

Ours will always be superior because until someone other than City win, it'll be the only one.

 

[The Corinthian]

Who cares?
People on this forum used to say "look, Arsenal / Liverpool haven't won ______ in x amount of years," as if it makes any diffference. We have been shit for a decade. People here are obsessed with history because we can't compare or compete in the present... It gets so tiring to listen to you guys say stuff like this... putting other teams achievements down just to lift us up. It's honestly pathetic and no one cares. Move on from the past already.

Since we last won the league 10 years ago, we've accumulated a total goal difference of +205. City: +585. Liverpool: +391.

 

[Blackbeard]

The way the the media and the footballing world at large, including Utd fans, are speaking as though this is done and they have already won the treble it will be hilarious if they cock up now.

 

[pastyfool]

What that team did in 99 was special. What City have done so far this season is expected. No matter what City go on to do this season there will always be a cloud hanging over their achievements.

As a wise man once said:
‘...you start to follow the money, and you don't know where the f**k it's gonna take you.'

 

[AlPistacho]

United in 99 were way more entertaining than City. City are very mechanical. United were flawed, eg would often go down etc, but had the best free flowing style I’ve seen. The link up between Yorke and Cole was amazing, one twos inside the oppositions box etc.

 

[VeevaVee]

That it's almost been inevitable tells you a lot about City. That they've won 5 out of 6 recent PL titles tells you how effective their cheating has been.

They have only one player from their academy, who would walk in to almost any other team, yet he's often on the bench because they still cheat to buy more first choice players.

The only surprising thing about them being on for the treble is that it's taken til now to be this close.

 

[B. Munich]

Italian teams don't lose from 2 goals down at home, English sides don't beat them away.

Really? Seems you haven't Bayern beeting Inter Mailand in San Siro 3:1 after having lost the first tie in Munich 0:2.

 

[united_99]

City's treble will be more impressive. They've outplayed everyone; we didn't.

Off-field issues aside, non-United fans will remember ours as a rollercoaster ride and theirs as the best PL team ever.

Yes „off-field issues“ aka cheating aside and oil money aside, everyone will remember City‘s only as the 2nd treble by an English team.

 

[RedStarUnited]

I feel back in 1999 that English clubs were lagging behind the clubs from Spain, Italy and Germany, so it felt more of an achievement that United won the Champions League, especially beating the best teams from those countries along the way. The gauntlet of Barcelona, Inter Milan, Juventus and Bayern Munich was a formidable task for any English club back then.

These days English clubs are the top dogs, are expected to do well and pretty much win the thing. It’s kinda been that way since the late noughties when the Premier League boom took place and the classic Top 4 of United, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea were constantly making quarter finals, semi finals and finals (all four of them went to a final at some point).

This.

Id say its much more than now, Serie A dominated the 90s. An Italian was in 9 of the 10 finals of that decade. Milan went to 3 finals in a row, then Juve went to 3 in a row, before we stopped Juve from going to 4th. Its a bad year for a lot of the European giants, it would be a huge shock for City not to win now.

On paper history will say, Man City beat Madrid 4-0 but the reality is Modric is 38 in a few months and Kroos is 36. We played Against a 26 year old Zidane and a 29 year old Deschamps. The two guys who just won the world cup a year before and were about to go win the Euros.

 

[AlPistacho]

City's treble will be more impressive. They've outplayed everyone; we didn't.

Off-field issues aside, non-United fans will remember ours as a rollercoaster ride and theirs as the best PL team ever.

United outplayed Barca and Bayern in the group stages, outplayed Juventus away in the SF, and beat Bayern in the final with Scholes and Keane not playing. I think a lot of people forget how good United were simply because Bayern played better in the final but forget we had what would today be the equivalent of £250m worth of players absent, Scholes, Keane and Henin Berg

 

[always_hoping]

Manchester United along with winning the treble the first time of any English team

The first English team to win the European cup (Big Ears trophy) in 1968 and wasn't it Matt Busby's idea for English teams to play in Europe

The First English team to win the rebranded Champion league

The First Team to win the Premier league

Won the Premier league title thee in a row twice before City did it this season,

Am I missing anymore?

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Really? Seems you haven't Bayern beeting Inter Mailand in San Siro 3:1 after having lost the first tie in Munich 0:2.

When was this match? Also Bayern aren't English.

 

[Real Name]

Good article although digs at Celtic, PSV and Ajax trebles isnt needed.

 

[Real Name]

City's treble will be more impressive. They've outplayed everyone; we didn't.

Off-field issues aside, non-United fans will remember ours as a rollercoaster ride and theirs as the best PL team ever.

Are you sure you even watched United in CL in 1999. If you did you certainly wouldnts write that.

Rollercoaster ride.