BaldwinLegend
Full Member
More or less, yeahWord for word?
More or less, yeahWord for word?
Well, that's 31 km/h, so we're about right...19.2 mph I think. Matthew Upson apparently peaked at 2 mph - seriously!
You're a strange bloke BaldwinMore or less, yeah
"ire"Erm?
Is it that shocking? Who'd heard of Javier Hernandez before we signed him? Let alone seen him play
Yet we've all had the benefit of seeing him in action now, at the World Cup and during the pre tournament friendlies, and let's be honest, he looked the part, and scored twice, both goals absolute quality. It's still a big step up for him to come to United, but having shown he can mix it with the big boys at World Cup, it would make little to no sense farming him out somewhere
I think you and GHCQ are talking holier than thou crap to be brutally honest. The folk you're criticising have done nothing wrong, they've judged a player having seen him play. It's those who claimed he was brilliant having never seen him play but signed him on Football Manager you should save your ire for
Franco was the only one keeping Hernandez out of the team in the first couple of matches. Hernandez wasn't fighting with Vela and Dos Santos for a place in the team as he's not a winger.As for Hernandez, he had a decent world cup and scored a great goal but struggled to get his game in a team where the likes of dos Santos, Veila and Franco regularly started ahead of him.
Mexico played with a front three. If he really was as fantastic as some on here seem to think he could have displaced Vela or Dos Dantos (neither of whom are conventional wingers)Franco was the only one keeping Hernandez out of the team in the first couple of matches. Hernandez wasn't fighting with Vela and Dos Santos for a place in the team as he's not a winger.
Aguirre had a set formation and he wasn't one to really experiment much.
I personally think you're underplaying his performance at the WC, he was better than just "decent".
He was excellent at the world cup. He got limited chances, had to feed on scraps but still managed to conjure up goals that showed his talents. It was all one could do in that situation."ire"
I think hilarious was the word I used.
Not sure how you got from there to "ire"
As for Hernandez, he had a decent world cup and scored a great goal but struggled to get his game in a team where the likes of dos Santos, Veila and Franco regularly started ahead of him.
I'm all for being optimistic about him - as I am about any new signing - but it all gets a bit surreal when people talk about him scoring 15 goals, being first-choice partner for Rooney and far too good to go out on loan. Even if he was in his late twenties I'd anticipate he would take a season to settle, being just 21 years old I'd be very surprised if he contributed much this season. Almost certainly not until after Christmas, although quite possibly not at all.
Yep.Let's have it right; he had a very good World Cup, and if he hadn't already been signed by us, you can bet plenty of clubs would now have been in for him now
No guarantees he https://www.redcafe.net/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=8320381steps up to the Premier League of course, whole different ball game. And the pressures of representing United of course
Huh?Some people seem to take pleasure in comparing Hernandez to Diouf or Manucho. How anyone can still see a comparision is beyond me. The kid has done everything asked of him so far and considering his age he couldn't have done much more. In answer to his critics who seem to think it is only his two goals that has everyone moist you have to consider the way he has taken the pressure of representing his country in a World Cup and shows no nerves at all. As others have said the pressure of playing for United is the biggest hurdle for any new player. It is his ability to live with this pressure as well as his potential that has people genuinely excited. Very few see him as Wazzas immediate partner but sending him on loan would seem to achieve nothing in his development.
A "very good" World Cup? Really?Let's have it right; he had a very good World Cup, and if he hadn't already been signed by us, you can bet plenty of clubs would now have been in for him now
No guarantees he steps up to the Premier League of course, whole different ball game. And the pressures of representing United of course
In an ideal world or situation, you might be right but often loans are worthless because the loaned players get hardly any games under their belt.Huh?
If sending players out on loan "achieves nothing in their development" why do so many great managers (eg. Wenger and Ferguson) so frequently send their most talented youngsters out on loan?
Neither do I. I do however feel he should NOT be loaned out and should be given a chance together with Owen to stake his claim for the 3rd striker role (given that unfortunately there's no way Berbatov doesn't start the season as the 2nd striker).Like I said, this Hernandez bloke clearly has bags of talent and I'm optimistic he has a big future at United (more optimistic than I am about Diouf, for example) but I can't buy in to all this giddiness over a couple of quality goals and one good 90 minute performance.
Frazier Campbell aside, I can't think of any other examples of that happening to our loaned out players. Not sure what you're on about really- loans have been an essential part of many of our player's development.In an ideal world or situation, you might be right but often loans are worthless because the loaned players get hardly any games under their belt.
Giuseppe Rossi?Frazier Campbell aside, I can't think of any other examples of that happening to our loaned out players. Not sure what you're on about really- loans have been an essential part of many of our player's development.
Possebon is another, in fact it's probably set him back a whole year.Giuseppe Rossi?
I agree with pretty much all of that, especially the bit about him being grduallt integrated starting with CC games (except for the bit about Macheda, I hope he stays put)Neither do I. I do however feel he should NOT be loaned out and should be given a chance together with Owen to stake his claim for the 3rd striker role (given that unfortunately there's no way Berbatov doesn't start the season as the 2nd striker).
For any 21 yr old to be playing at a World Cup for his country says something about him. Mexico isn't a small country - it has plenty of talent to draw from and that also strongly suggests he has plenty of talent. He started the World Cup as a sub but progressed I believe to playing a more prominent role, coming on earlier or even starting in the last couple of games which also suggests he had a good world cup.
I'll reserve judgement on him until December by which time I hope to have seen him start a few games (Carling Cup and 1 or 2 in the league) and come on as sub in quite a few more.
Going out on loan I feel would not be what he expects to happen given his record at Chivas and performances in the World Cup.
I would rather see Macheda go out on loan with Wellbeck.
ffsYeah, lets loan out our most in form striker...
fecking mental.
he was rubbish before we loaned him out.Possebon is another, in fact it's probably set him back a whole year.
Getting his leg almost shattered by Pogatetz was what set him back, not going out on loan.Possebon is another, in fact it's probably set him back a whole year.
They played with a front three in the same way we play with a front three where Nani and Valencia are on the wings. Hernandez is not a winger, and it is possible to be a very good player without having the versatility to play on the wings. In fact, I find it a bit odd why you'd use this as an argument against him.Mexico played with a front three. If he really was as fantastic as some on here seem to think he could have displaced Vela or Dos Dantos (neither of whom are conventional wingers)
And I suppose sitting on the bench for Braga helped him out quite a bit as well? Sure his mentality after Pogatetz went for him became a problem but it's stupid to just dismiss the fact that he played no football for half a season. He certainly hasn't progressed at all in the last two years.Getting his leg almost shattered by Pogatetz was what set him back, not going out on loan.
Exactly! Being able to play wide is what set Rooney back so many years!They played with a front three in the same way we play with a front three where Nani and Valencia are on the wings. Hernandez is not a winger, and it is possible to be a very good player without having the versatility to play on the wings. In fact, I find it a bit odd why you'd use this as an argument against him.
You don't think Hernandez has the attributes to play anywhere in a front three? I see absolutely no reason he couldn't have got games for Mexico in the same role that, for example, Villa played for Spain.They played with a front three in the same way we play with a front three where Nani and Valencia are on the wings. Hernandez is not a winger, and it is possible to be a very good player without having the versatility to play on the wings. In fact, I find it a bit odd why you'd use this as an argument against him.
Not as stupid as blaming a half season on loan for his failure to progress at all in the last two years.And I suppose sitting on the bench for Braga helped him out quite a bit as well? Sure his mentality after Pogatetz went for him became a problem but it's stupid to just dismiss the fact that he played no football for half a season. He certainly hasn't progressed at all in the last two years.
Well I have only seen him play 6-8 games, and all of them were as a frontman, so it's limited how much one can really say about his ability to play on the wings.You don't think Hernandez has the attributes to play anywhere in a front three? I see absolutely no reason he couldn't have got games for Mexico in the same role that, for example, Villa played for Spain.
Of course, this would mean dropping either Vela or Dos Santos, neither of whom seem to be rated on this place but both of whom started (almost?) all of Mexico's WC games.