Books Wheel of Time

[Count Duckula]

Does anyone enjoy this? Does it get better? I'm currently reading The Eye of the Storm, which (as I'm sure you know) is the first book in the series. I'm reading it at my girlfriend's insistence, because she's obssessed with WoT (I fully expect her to be queueing at midnight for the new one come 2 November).

But it's shit. Like, really, really shit. Jordan's writing style is like that of a fecking two year old.

"His clothes were greyish green... and his cloak swirled with greys and greens." No shit Sherlock, given that you've just told us his clothes are fecking grey and green.

It's my first real exposure to proper high fantasy given that the only books in the fantasy genre I've read so far are The Lord of the Rings and the first three books in Steven Erickson's Malazan series. Can't say it's filling me with an appetite to read more.

Thing is, I've spent the whole time I've been building up to it being told by literally everyone I've spoken to that it's the best high fantasy ever written, and that it'll totally blow me away. But it's not. I'm only halfway through the book but it's poorly-written, clichéd rubbish. My fear is that if I turn to my girlfriend and just say "this is shit, and only retards enjoy it" she might take offence.

Therefore, does it get any better? Or am I going to be stuck reading fiteen fecking books of this tripe without it improving one iota? I'm seriously considering just reading book summaries for all of the volumes and just pretending I've read them.

 

[Randall Flagg]

I read the 1st one and struggled to finish it. Not a fan but I can see why people like it

 

[wr8_utd]

Oh I've been waiting for a thread dedicated to the Wheel of Time.

The Eye of the Storm is a great book and yes the series does indeed get much better. It's rather huge though. Towers of Midnight, coming on 2nd November (and earlier depending on where you stay ) is the 13th book.

Don't know how your finding it childish but it's a great series (slightly dragged) of fantasy books. Love it.

 

[wr8_utd]

Today

Does anyone enjoy this? Does it get better? I'm currently reading The Eye of the Storm, which (as I'm sure you know) is the first book in the series. I'm reading it at my girlfriend's insistence, because she's obssessed with WoT (I fully expect her to be queueing at midnight for the new one come 2 November).

1st October.

My girlfriend won't stop talking about the new Wheel of Time book coming out. She even bought the prologue she's that obssessed.

Personally, I think the WoT books are absolute tripe. I read the first two and my brain wanted to melt I was so bored.

 

[Count Duckula]

I was lying then because my girlfriend was hovering and I've told her I've been reading them non-stop to keep her quiet.

So you like them then wr8? What is it that makes them so good, in your opinion? When I say childish I don't mean the content - I can see that they're incredibly deep and complex in many ways - but more the writing style and general presentation. He'll introduce a character and then spend two pages describing them in great detail, as if they only ever wear one set of clothes, look one particular way and do one noticeable thing. Not only that, but the descriptions he uses are both basic and repetitive, hence my accusation of childish prose.

I don't know, if this is the best high fantasy has to offer then I'm not convinced. And how can someone keep a series going for fifteen books, when each fecking volume is over a thousand pages?! I fear that if I perservere with this the story's just going to get even more constipated as I go on.

 

[wr8_utd]

Haha that's true. Robert Jordan was very very descriptive to say the least. There are books where 3/4th of the book will go without any major action taking place but him just getting descriptive about any and everything. Well that's his style and eventually you get used to it.

And the series is never ending really but us WoT fans absolutely love it

The painful part is waiting for the books but since I started reading around say, 7-8 years back I did not suffer much of the waiting that others have suffered for the past 2 decades.

Brandon Sanderson who is now finishing the series following Jordan's death has his own style and he's less descriptive than RJ but he's been really good in his one book and if initial reviews are anything to go by his next book (november 2nd) is going to be great as well

GIve it a chance. Read pas the first book, it'll probably grow on you. It's a beast of a series

 

[Count Duckula]

Would you have said it's the best fantasy series? I assume you've read around - if I don't enjoy this one am I going to dislike them all, because this is the high watermark for fantasy fiction (ie, I clearly just dislike the genre rather than this series in particular)?

Also, saying that an author spends three-quarters of a book waffling on about irrelevant things isn't a way to convince someone to keep reading

 

[nimic]

I'm almost shocked that you would describe The Eye of the World like "really shit". I can only hope you're exaggerating, or I don't know what to think. If you don't like The Eye of the World, there's not a hope in hell you'll like the later books. That said, the book does start off quite slow, like fantasy often does. That said, if you really think half the book seems like it's written by a two year old, I don't see how you could possibly like anything that follows anyway.

I'm not of the crowd who thinks that the books greatly declined in quality, now that we're onto the subject. My favourite book is The Dragon Reborn, and I too thought that CoT was not as good as it should have been, but I very much enjoyed all the books. KoD was magnificent, and TGS was also quite good.

 

[wr8_utd]

I'm almost shocked that you would describe The Eye of the World like "really shit". I can only hope you're exaggerating, or I don't know what to think. If you don't like The Eye of the World, there's not a hope in hell you'll like the later books. That said, the book does start off quite slow, like fantasy often does. That said, if you really think half the book seems like it's written by a two year old, I don't see how you could possibly like anything that follows anyway.

I'm not of the crowd who thinks that the books greatly declined in quality, now that we're onto the subject. My favourite book is The Dragon Reborn, and I too thought that CoT was not as good as it should have been, but I very much enjoyed all the books. KoD was magnificent, and TGS was also quite good.

To be honest Crossroads of Twilight was quite horrible. After the way Winters Heart had ended I expected more but it was really a bit of a let down. That for me is one of the poorer books of the series.

I loved Winters Heart and the cleansing at the end

As for the books after CoT, yeah they improved a lot. I liked KoD a lot. The Gathering Storm was great stuff. At first I had been apprehensive about how Brandon would write but I found myself actually enjoying it more than RJ's last few books. His writing style is different, there's a lot more action and a lot less description. He's said Towers of Midnight is going to be high on action

The Last Battle is approaching

 

[Count Duckula]

I'm almost shocked that you would describe The Eye of the World like "really shit". I can only hope you're exaggerating, or I don't know what to think. If you don't like The Eye of the World, there's not a hope in hell you'll like the later books. That said, the book does start off quite slow, like fantasy often does. That said, if you really think half the book seems like it's written by a two year old, I don't see how you could possibly like anything that follows anyway.

I'm not of the crowd who thinks that the books greatly declined in quality, now that we're onto the subject. My favourite book is The Dragon Reborn, and I too thought that CoT was not as good as it should have been, but I very much enjoyed all the books. KoD was magnificent, and TGS was also quite good.

Yeh, alright, I'll tone down my criticism. It's not "really shit" by any stretch, but it's certainly bogged down and uninteresting. I'm about halfway through now, which might not sound like a lot but it's still five hundred or so fecking pages, and it's just... meh.

The thing that's getting me the most is it's as if Jordan didn't have a single original idea of his own. Everything that's appeared in the books thus far has been borrowed or outright copied from something else, whether that's the fantasy fiction that preceeded it or just an old myth or religious story. The character and plot fit neatly into the most stereotypical tropes available.

Still, I'll finish this book, but feck me if the others are even slower paced I'm just going to have to come out with it and tell my girlfriend she's a brain-dead moron without an ounce of creative thought or appreciation if she truly enjoys these books that much. That'll go down well.

But no one has answered my earlier question - is there another fantasy series I might enjoy more, or (if this is the best available) do I just hate the genre?

 

[wr8_utd]

You probably just hate the genre. This is among the best fantasy series you can get to be honest. Try out Lord of The Rings (something RJ apparently got inspiration from) if you can't continue with this. It's far more fast paced and action filled than this. But give me WoT over LOTR any day of the week.

 

[Count Duckula]

Someone recommended a Song of Ice and Fire to me, so I might give that a go. I tried reading the Malazan books, but they made literally no sense at all. The author might well have just been ejaculating names onto a piece of paper.

Yeh... I think I just hate the genre. Which is a shame, since I told my girlfriend I was a huge reader of fantasy fiction when we met so that we'd have something in common. Woops.

 

[wr8_utd]

Someone recommended a Song of Ice and Fire to me, so I might give that a go. I tried reading the Malazan books, but they made literally no sense at all. The author might well have just been ejaculating names onto a piece of paper.

Yeh... I think I just hate the genre. Which is a shame, since I told my girlfriend I was a huge reader of fantasy fiction when we met so that we'd have something in common. Woops.

I think you have more to worry about if she finds out what you think about Eye of the Storm and WoT in general tbh

 

[Count Duckula]

Yeh it does seem to inspire rapid loyalty in its fans. It's the Apple of the fantasy genre.

 

[wr8_utd]

Yeh it does seem to inspire rapid loyalty in its fans. It's the Apple of the fantasy genre.

I find it horribly offensive you compared WoT fans (and hence me) to an Apple fanboy

 

[nimic]

A Song of Ice and Fire is also very good. I prefer WoT, but it's definitely my second favourite. It's generally more faster paced, but from what you've said it looks like you just don't like the genre at all, so I'm not sure if you'll get anything from those books either.

 

[Count Duckula]

Yeh I think it might be the genre as a whole. I'm the one not getting it here - like I said, everyone else has been telling me how awesome these books are, so it's definitely me who is the odd one out! To be honest, I'm not that much of a reader normally, so when I saw the size of the book my girlfriend thumped in front of me I just thought, "what the hell have I let myself in for?"! Generally, if a book is over four hundred pages long I'll give it a miss, because I just don't have the patience for it (and a whole series of books that long - Oh God!).

I think I'll just have to come clean and tell her I was lying when I said I liked fantasy fiction. It's become quite clear that, in actual fact, I fecking hate it!

 

[SecondFig]

I really enjoyed the first 3 or 4, then he began to lose the plot and by about the 8th I really couldn't care less. They were never classics of literature, but they started as good high fantasy, only to devolve into ridiculous plots, the characters became far too powerful and Jordan lost control of the plot - I'm pretty sure nothing actually happened between books 7 and 8.

In the same genre Tad Williams' Memory Thorn and Sorrow and J.V.Jones books are far far better.

 

[Kristjan]

Song of Ice & Fire is much, much better than Wheel of Time.

Brutal, direct and no adjusting of skirts...

The Wheel of Time series should have been 6-7 books tops, not more.

 

[SCM]

Yeh I think it might be the genre as a whole. I'm the one not getting it here - like I said, everyone else has been telling me how awesome these books are, so it's definitely me who is the odd one out! To be honest, I'm not that much of a reader normally, so when I saw the size of the book my girlfriend thumped in front of me I just thought, "what the hell have I let myself in for?"! Generally, if a book is over four hundred pages long I'll give it a miss, because I just don't have the patience for it (and a whole series of books that long - Oh God!).

I think I'll just have to come clean and tell her I was lying when I said I liked fantasy fiction. It's become quite clear that, in actual fact, I fecking hate it!

The problem is with The Wheel of Time books is if you aren't used to this style of fantasy writing you will struggle to adapt to it, i did at first with the first few books in the WoT. This is me being a heavy reader of this genre of books as well although took me a while to get into these. I found it is more a series that grows on you over time and gets better the further in you get to the books but not everyone will find them to their tastes.

It might be better working your way into the fantasy books with something a bit less heavy going than the WoT series, as others have suggested different authors to you. I like Terry Brooks Shannara based books and compared to the WoT they are a far better way to get into the fantasy genre, as they aren't as heavy of a read for anyone new to the genre. When you read his first one the Sword of Shannara you do sit there comparing the storyline to Lord of the Rings but as he was writing this at the time those books became big in the late 70's understandable why. He did manage to lose the more obvious influences from others the further he went into his series and they became more settled into his image of what he was trying to put over in the books.

Thing is the fantasy genre is one that is difficult to get into if you dive straight in with a heavy series like WoT and find it off putting. If your gf has other authors in fantasy try reading a few of those that catches your eye and see if you find those better to begin with.

 

[Count Duckula]

Thanks SCM! Yeh, I have tried getting into the genre before, but that was equally unsuccessful. A friend of mine recommended the Malazan Book of the Fallen series to me, so I read the first few and found myself not understanding it at all! It was just so complex - there was no weaning you into the story or anything. At least WoT isn't suffering from that, helped I suppose by the fact that the main character seems as new to all of this as we the readers are.

I came clean to my girlfriend today She actually wasn't bothered, and had already worked out I was lying due to my inconsistencies with my fantasy fiction knowledge! I think she's rather enjoying the idea actually, because it means she can thrust her suggestions upon me and build me into a fantasy fiction lover in her own image.

So since I'm still being forced into this genre I think I'll take all your recommendations and start off more slowly. Someone suggested I read Robin Hobb's Farseer trilogy, which is apparently outstanding whilst being more accessible to someone new to the whole fantasy fiction thing. My girlfriend has recommended the Mistborn trilogy by Brandon Sanderson, too, though again I think she might be biased towards him as he's finishing off the Wheel of Time series. But apparently it's a really good read, but not too long or too complex for a newcomer to enjoy.

 

[wr8_utd]

Brandon actually has done a good job with the Mistborn trilogy from what I've heard.

Towers of Midnight (13th book) is so close now

 

[The_Red_Hope]

I'm an ex-WoT fanboy. The book are great till about book 6 after which I found them to get progressively worse. Agree when people say that they should have been 6 at most.

Why an ex-fanboy you ask? Because I have since read ASoIaF, which in comparison is way way better. I now devote my full-time fanboism to A song of Ice and Fire.

 

[jveezy]

Not a very good effort on my part but I tried to listen to this on audiobook and I got through about two minutes and decided to listen to something else.

Might try to get back into it since it's not like I can get a refund on a digital audiobook. And it's a bit strange because I almost feel like I'm a sucker for fantasy. I mean in the sense that I really feckin love Redwall so it doesn't take much to please me.

 

[wr8_utd]

I'm an ex-WoT fanboy. The book are great till about book 6 after which I found them to get progressively worse. Agree when people say that they should have been 6 at most.

Why an ex-fanboy you ask? Because I have since read ASoIaF, which in comparison is way way better. I now devote my full-time fanboism to A song of Ice and Fire.

Traitor

 

[Mitch Conor]

I'm an ex-WoT fanboy. The book are great till about book 6 after which I found them to get progressively worse. Agree when people say that they should have been 6 at most.

Why an ex-fanboy you ask? Because I have since read ASoIaF, which in comparison is way way better. I now devote my full-time fanboism to A song of Ice and Fire.

Personally i think the 10th was the worst. NOTHING happened in that book, untill the last couple of pages, and even then it wasn't all that much. It was basically the epilogue filled out to a few hundred pages.

The last two books have been good though, imo.

 

[SecondFig]

Personally i think the 10th was the worst. NOTHING happened in that book, untill the last couple of pages, and even then it wasn't all that much. It was basically the epilogue filled out to a few hundred pages.

The last two books have been good though, imo.

I don't think anything happened in the 8th or 9th either, they both followed the same plan: momentous event trailed on back cover (e.g. Faile is kidnapped!), there then ensues 400 pages of Rand trying to have a threesome before the momentous event happens in 2 pages at the end.

CD - if you're getting into fantasy I'd reccomend any of the following:

Patrick Rothfuss - Name of the Wind
Well written but fairly swashbuckling and fun.

Scott Lynch's Gentleman Bastards series
Again more swashbuckling, action packed - but good.

Robin Hobb's Assassin series
J.V.Jones' Book of Words or Sword of Shadows series
Both are much more... gritty, you could almost say realistic if that wasn't so clearly silly. Lots of suffering, disappointment and pain. But both very good (especially J.V. Jones).

Tad Williams' Memory Thorn & Sorrow series
Absolutely incredible trilogy. The world created, interwoven plot and characters are all superb. My only complaint is that the ending is a bit "meh".

 

[D J Dog Toffee]

I have about the same view of Jordan as the opening post. I read a few books, but I can't recall exactly how many as they all sort of blur into one. I kept waiting for a pay-off, but always felt cheated out of one. The first book I seem to remember was OK, it was the following few where nothing much seemed to happen. The story kept hinting at some big event, yet the book then finished and sort of hinted that the big set-piece was coming in the next instalment, then it never did. His writing style didn't help, being very dry and tedious.

Recently I read the Rift-War trilogy by Raymond E. Feist. That was thoroughly entertaining and had far better pacing.

 

[wr8_utd]

Personally i think the 10th was the worst. NOTHING happened in that book, untill the last couple of pages, and even then it wasn't all that much. It was basically the epilogue filled out to a few hundred pages.

The last two books have been good though, imo.

Crossroads of Twilight was a horrible book. It's the only book I din't bother to buy but just read it online.
Liked Winters Heart though, specially for the last 50 pages or so.

I don't think anything happened in the 8th or 9th either, they both followed the same plan: momentous event trailed on back cover (e.g. Faile is kidnapped!), there then ensues 400 pages of Rand trying to have a threesome before the momentous event happens in 2 pages at the end.

Faile was and is the most annoying character ever. I hope she suffers a brutal death at the hands of Moridin.

Perrin wasted his time in 3-4 books searching for and rescuing her

 

[SecondFig]

I have about the same view of Jordan as the opening post. I read a few books, but I can't recall exactly how many as they all sort of blur into one. I kept waiting for a pay-off, but always felt cheated out of one. The first book I seem to remember was OK, it was the following few where nothing much seemed to happen. The story kept hinting at some big event, yet the book then finished and sort of hinted that the big set-piece was coming in the next instalment, then it never did. His writing style didn't help, being very dry and tedious.

Recently I read the Rift-War trilogy by Raymond E. Feist. That was thoroughly entertaining and had far better pacing.

Feist started well, but lost the plot after about 4 or 5 books. His later work was just terrible. Krondor the Assassins is probably the worst fantasy book I've ever read.

Eddings went the same way, his Elenium and Tamuli trilogies were fun, his later stuff (Redemption of Althalus and Elder Gods were utter shite.

 

[D J Dog Toffee]

Feist started well, but lost the plot after about 4 or 5 books. His later work was just terrible. Krondor the Assassins is probably the worst fantasy book I've ever read.

Eddings went the same way, his Elenium and Tamuli trilogies were fun, his later stuff (Redemption of Althalus and Elder Gods were utter shite.

I only read the first 3, just finished Darkness of Sethanon a few weeks back. I also remember an R. A. Salvatore trilogy that was good, called The DemonWars Saga. I also know that he has written a bunch more but again, I've only read the original 3.

In the meantime I have been going through my old man's box set of Fritz Leiber's Ffard & Grey Mouser books. He has a nice, dark writing style. The books are also a collection of short stories, so easy to dip in and out of.

 

[SecondFig]

I only read the first 3, just finished Darkness of Sethanon a few weeks back. I also remember an R. A. Salvatore trilogy that was good, called The DemonWars Saga. I also know that he has written a bunch more but again, I've only read the original 3.

Ahhhh, if you liked the Demonwars Saga then you'll probably love all of Feist's work - I thought the first of the Demonwars books was one of the worst books I've ever read... glad someone enjoyed it though!

In the meantime I have been going through my old man's box set of Fritz Leiber's Ffard & Grey Mouser books. He has a nice, dark writing style. The books are also a collection of short stories, so easy to dip in and out of.

I really liked those books, they're trashy but in a really good way. Swords of Lankhmar is a great little book

 

[The_Red_Hope]

Agree with both Mitch and Second and like I had said in the book thread a long time ago, I honestly think Jordan quite literally lost the plot in the latter half of the series. He sacrificed developing the main plot/characters and instead insisted on introducing 300 new character with each book. I got so tired of keeping up that I had to keep a cheat sheet of characters by the seventh book.

Traitor

WoT was very dear to me when I was reading the first few books, I honestly thought they were very good and I defended them passionately from the Jordan-haters but it really got to me by book 9 or 10 or so I just couldn't do it anymore.
Have you read ASoIaF by the way?

 

[nimic]

I have, and I don't think it's better than WoT. It's my second favourite series, just behind Robert Jordan's.

 

[Count Duckula]

Don't hate me guys, but I've picked up my old copy of Gardens of the Moon by Steven Erickson, and am now loving it. I think maybe it just seems good when compared to my experiences with WoT. Either way, I'm not going to rock the boat by trying something else when I'm enjoying this - I've got the first Robin Hobb book on order and I'm going to read that next.

Then I'll give Eye of the World a second attempt.

 

[The_Red_Hope]

Don't hate me guys, but I've picked up my old copy of Gardens of the Moon by Steven Erickson, and am now loving it. I think maybe it just seems good when compared to my experiences with WoT. Either way, I'm not going to rock the boat by trying something else when I'm enjoying this - I've got the first Robin Hobb book on order and I'm going to read that next.

Then I'll give Eye of the World a second attempt.

If you don't like Eye of the World, I think I can pretty safely say that you may not enjoy the remainder of the series.

 

[Count Duckula]

Nope, gave Eye of the World a second attempt, still found it shite. Awful, awful book. It's not even funny how much stuff he's ripped off from Lord of the Rings (far more than can be palmed off through a simple "tribute"), and then butchered. I mean, he's stolen it, then fecked it up, like nicking a prized Mercedes and rubbing it down with manure.

 

[wr8_utd]

So your not pretending that you like the series anymore?

Hows Gardens of the Moon. Have the book but not yet read it

 

[Mozza]

The Conan books of Robert E Howard, like an action movie only more violent and a little racist

Listen to the score whilst reading cause it's awesome

 

[King_Eric]

Strange that I missed this thread the first time it came around. I absolutely love the WoT series. I do agree that the first few books are better than the later books, but I still like reading them. The content, the world he created and the story is just too good.

I've bought the first book written by the other author now, but I'll wait till the other two are published as well so I don't have to wait inbetween.
Before starting A Gathering Storm, I'll probably reread books 10 and 11 first because I don't really remember how all the story-lines ended there.


Raymond E Feist is also one of my favorite fantasy authors. Especially the Riftwar series, the Serpentwar Series and the Conclave of Shadows series were great. Afterwards, I had the feeling he was going a bit too far with the gods and stuff. But I still enjoy reading them.
He's almost at the end I think. Just one or two more books to go and this whole Midkemia-story is finished.


Recently I've discovered two great books from Markus Heitz, Ritus and Sanctus. It's about werewolves and the legend of 'la bete de Gévaudan', a French legend about werewolves (also featuring in the (great) movie Brotherhood of the wolf).
He also has a series called The Dwarves which is supposed to be quite good, but I haven't had the time to read them yet.