Sagna: Our players need more protection

Red Dreams

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Arsenal defender Bacary Sagna wants Premier League referees to give players more protection, with Manchester United midfielder Paul Scholes' recent lunge on Samir Nasri another example of a wild tackle he feels was not punished harshly enough.

In an interview with The Associated Press, Sagna described how angry he was when Nasri got violently upended by Scholes in an FA Cup match but escaped without a red card.

"We've had two broken legs," Sagna said, referring to midfielder Aaron Ramsey and former striker Eduardo da Silva. "We went to Manchester and Samir (Nasri) got his leg ripped off again. There's nothing (done about it).

"They always wait until there is a major incident to make a decision, and then it's too late."

Ramsey is now back in the Arsenal team after breaking his leg just over a year ago following a heavy challenge from Stoke defender Ryan Shawcross. Eduardo nearly had his career ended by Birmingham defender Martin Taylor in 2008.

Midfielder Abou Diaby fractured his ankle early into in his Arsenal career, and this season was clattered by a two-footed tackle from Newcastle's Joey Barton, who was not even booked.

Scholes was lucky to escape with only a caution, says Sagna.

"He (Nasri) almost had his leg cut off," Sagna told the AP this week at France's Clairefontaine training camp.

"If he breaks his leg what shall we say? It's too late," Sagna continued. "The problem is you can't have a discussion with them (referees), you can't have a debate."

Even though Sagna was himself on the receiving end of a thunderous tackle from Wayne Rooney that lifted him into the air at Old Trafford, the France defender says Rooney went for the ball first and that there was no malice to it.

Sagna even chuckles when recalling the incident.

"In my mind I went only for the ball ... he was going for both," Sagna said. "Deep down I know he is not a nasty person, it's different. Certain players do things to hurt you. I didn't say anything to him afterward, but if I had sensed he was trying to hurt me, I would have reacted."

Since the Premier League opened its doors to welcome an influx of foreign stars over the last 15 years, many have been praised for lighting up English football with their skill.

But some observers, even now, question whether foreign players dive more than their English counterparts, and whether they are prone to exaggerating injuries.

However, Sagna - while being careful not to question the integrity of officials - brought up another aspect by suggesting that the flip side to that is that foreign players - like his fellow Frenchman Nasri - sometimes are more roughly treated in English football.

"Samir should perhaps change nationality, I don't know ... I don't want to get into such a debate, I don't want to concentrate on that because I have much more important things to think about," Sagna said. "I get the impression it's like that, maybe I'm wrong."

But the 28-year-old Sagna was equally quick to acknowledge Arsenal's own frailties in defense, saying that their stuttering title run is largely down to an inability to stamp out errors that continue to hound Arsene Wenger's team.

"When you see the goals we've let in since the start of the season, 40 percent of them are from mistakes," said Sagna, who stands to win his 28th cap for France in a 2012 European Championship qualifier away to Luxembourg on Friday.

Arsenal led 4-0 at halftime away to Newcastle last month, and - even though Sagna thinks Newcastle got "two disputed penalties" - threw away a commanding lead to draw 4-4. Arsenal even nearly lost that match in the closing seconds.

"When you're winning, even with 10 (men), they should never score four goals," Sagna said.

Last weekend saw more dropped points at West Bromwich Albion, which Sagna says revealed "a lack of communication."

Arsenal clawed back a 2-2 draw after conceding two sloppy early goals, the second a comical mix-up between goalkeeper Manuel Almunia and defender Sebastien Squillaci.

"We have to talk to each other a lot more, we have to pull together, encourage each other," Sagna said. "At certain times I feel we are lacking this.

Another defensive mix-up in the final minutes led to a 2-1 loss to Birmingham in the League Cup final last month, in a match most thought would end Arsenal's title drought dating back to 2005.

Sagna says fans "are right" for lambasting Arsenal's defeat to Birmingham.

"When you make all those efforts, you reach the League Cup final, which is at Wembley, and then (out on the pitch) we soil ourselves, that's not normal," said the soft-speaking Sagna, using a rare profanity. "We were beaten in every domain, they won the most tackles, and honestly (Birmingham) deserved it."

That loss was followed by a defeat against Barcelona in the Champions League, and the FA Cup exit at the hands of United. After the draw at West Brom, Arsenal is now five points behind United in the league, but with a game in hand.

Still, being able to focus on just one competition may favor the Gunners going forward, as Sagna and his teammates try once and for all to silence all those critics who harp on about the team's lack of trophies.

"We know we can do it," he said. "To answer the critics, you have to win (trophies). For the moment we have not done this. So we can't answer back."

Sagna Arsenal players need more protection from referees - Premier League News | FOX Sports on MSN
 

wr8_utd

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God I detest Arsenal and their players. If we slip up in the title race I really hope Chelsea pick up the pieces and not these moaning bunch of Emirates Cup winners.
 

alastair

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I think Sagna makes a good point when he says people in this country don't talk about it until someone gets seriously injured. Which is a problem.
 

wr8_utd

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Arsenal defender Bacary Sagna wants Premier League referees to give players more protection, with Manchester United midfielder Paul Scholes' recent lunge on Samir Nasri another example of a wild tackle he feels was not punished harshly enough.

In an interview with The Associated Press, Sagna described how angry he was when Nasri got violently upended by Scholes in an FA Cup match but escaped without a red card.

"We've had two broken legs," Sagna said, referring to midfielder Aaron Ramsey and former striker Eduardo da Silva. "We went to Manchester and Samir (Nasri) got his leg ripped off again. There's nothing (done about it).

"They always wait until there is a major incident to make a decision, and then it's too late."

Ramsey is now back in the Arsenal team after breaking his leg just over a year ago following a heavy challenge from Stoke defender Ryan Shawcross. Eduardo nearly had his career ended by Birmingham defender Martin Taylor in 2008.

Midfielder Abou Diaby fractured his ankle early into in his Arsenal career, and this season was clattered by a two-footed tackle from Newcastle's Joey Barton, who was not even booked.

Scholes was lucky to escape with only a caution, says Sagna.

"He (Nasri) almost had his leg cut off," Sagna told the AP this week at France's Clairefontaine training camp.

"If he breaks his leg what shall we say? It's too late," Sagna continued. "The problem is you can't have a discussion with them (referees), you can't have a debate."

Even though Sagna was himself on the receiving end of a thunderous tackle from Wayne Rooney that lifted him into the air at Old Trafford, the France defender says Rooney went for the ball first and that there was no malice to it.

Sagna even chuckles when recalling the incident.

"In my mind I went only for the ball ... he was going for both," Sagna said. "Deep down I know he is not a nasty person, it's different. Certain players do things to hurt you. I didn't say anything to him afterward, but if I had sensed he was trying to hurt me, I would have reacted."

Since the Premier League opened its doors to welcome an influx of foreign stars over the last 15 years, many have been praised for lighting up English football with their skill.

But some observers, even now, question whether foreign players dive more than their English counterparts, and whether they are prone to exaggerating injuries.

However, Sagna - while being careful not to question the integrity of officials - brought up another aspect by suggesting that the flip side to that is that foreign players - like his fellow Frenchman Nasri - sometimes are more roughly treated in English football.

"Samir should perhaps change nationality, I don't know ... I don't want to get into such a debate, I don't want to concentrate on that because I have much more important things to think about," Sagna said. "I get the impression it's like that, maybe I'm wrong."
:houllier: :lol:

Though the rest of his interview is pretty decent.
 

wr8_utd

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I think Sagna makes a good point when he says people in this country don't talk about it until someone gets seriously injured. Which is a problem.
All that's fine but all that rubbish about Nasri having his "leg ripped off" is just nonsense.
 

Feeky Magee

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Sagna exaggerates the severity of Scholes' tackle, but otherwise is spot on. We need to protect our flair players. All dangerous tackles need to be dealt with retrospectively, not just when they cause severe injury. The fact that Rooney's elbow got more media attention than any of the other several shocking and eminently more dangerous tackles that we have seen this season says it all really.
 

alastair

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All that's fine but all that rubbish about Nasri having his "leg ripped off" is just nonsense.
You don't have a link to the tackle do you? Because I was actually there and I was a mile away from the incident, and haven't seen it back. I have no idea how bad it was.
 

wr8_utd

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You don't have a link to the tackle do you? Because I was actually there and I was a mile away from the incident, and haven't seen it back. I have no idea how bad it was.
Tbf it was a poor tackle but Sagna is making a huge deal out of it. Wilshere put in a tackle just as bad but you don't see our players making a meal about it and moaning in public do you?

Though Sagna is not wrong about what he's trying to say. Dangerous tackles need to get stamped out of the game, not tackling in general though.
 

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I think Sagna makes a good point when he says people in this country don't talk about it until someone gets seriously injured. Which is a problem.
There is also the equally bad tendency to assume that all serious injuries are someone's fault, sometimes broken legs and other injuries can just happen, however there does seem to be a bit of a blame culture developing.

Of course some tackles are sickening but get away with nothing, most notable being Jonny Evans on Drogba last season and De Jong in the world cup final (although this was not English but the point remains) but this OTT blame culture is just as bad.
 

alastair

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Tbf it was a poor tackle but Sagna is making a huge deal out of it. Wilshere put in a tackle just as bad but you don't see our players making a meal about it and moaning in public do you?

Though Sagna is not wrong about what he's trying to say. Dangerous tackles need to get stamped out of the game, not tackling in general though.
I don't think anyone would like to see tackling with any intensity banned. It's just the punishments for shocking challenges are so pathetic.

To mention the two recent Arsenal ones - Martin Taylor's was clearly just a horrible accident and he gets 3 matches. Seems fair enough. Then Shawcross gets the same punishment for something far more 'careless' and 'avoidable'. Why?
 

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There is also the equally bad tendency to assume that all serious injuries are someone's fault, sometimes broken legs and other injuries can just happen, however there does seem to be a bit of a blame culture developing.

Of course some tackles are sickening but get away with nothing, most notable being Jonny Evans on Drogba last season and De Jong in the world cup final (although this was not English but the point remains) but this OTT blame culture is just as bad.
Well with Valencia's one earlier this season, no-one blamed the defender. To an extent, no-one really blamed De Jong for his tackle on Ben Arfa - just horrible accidents.

I'm all for a blame culture if the right people are blamed. I think it's worse that the perennial offenders like Shawcross are roundly defended for their actions, when there are people with broken legs lying in their hospital beds rightly cursing him.
 

wr8_utd

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I don't think anyone would like to see tackling with any intensity banned. It's just the punishments for shocking challenges are so pathetic.

To mention the two recent Arsenal ones - Martin Taylor's was clearly just a horrible accident and he gets 3 matches. Seems fair enough. Then Shawcross gets the same punishment for something far more 'careless' and 'avoidable'. Why?
And Carragher gets no punishment at all for his tackle on Nani. I don't know why.

As for Shawcross, well everyone has differing opinions on the intent in the tackle...
 

alastair

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And Carragher gets no punishment at all for his tackle on Nani. I don't know why.

As for Shawcross, well everyone has differing opinions on the intent in the tackle...
And equally Rafael gets nothing for his challenge either. ;)

There needs to be retrospective action for particularly poor ones. Like Karl Henry's on Jordi Gomez this year was an absolute shocker and could have ended his career, and I'm not exaggerating. Three matches for that? Ludicrous. Especially when Aliadiere got a 4 match ban a few years back for slapping Mascherano.
 

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Well with Valencia's one earlier this season, no-one blamed the defender. To an extent, no-one really blamed De Jong for his tackle on Ben Arfa - just horrible accidents.
De Jong on Ben Arfa deserves to be on the blame side, he went in high studs up on Ben Arfa.

I'm all for a blame culture if the right people are blamed. I think it's worse that the perennial offenders like Shawcross are roundly defended for their actions, when there are people with broken legs lying in their hospital beds rightly cursing him.
One that really annoys me with stuff like this is how Martin Taylor gets lumped in with some of the worst offenders quite a lot, even that Davies video you posted does it, that was not a bad intentioned challenge, it was similar to Evans at weekend really, yet the amount of stick Taylor received (he shouldn't be on a football pitch etc...) was totally uncalled for.
 

wr8_utd

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Gallas' tackle vs Bolton could have been as much a leg breaker as Shawcross' or Taylor's imo. It's just the severity of the injury that decides the reaction to the tackle.
 

alastair

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De Jong on Ben Arfa deserves to be on the blame side, he went in high studs up on Ben Arfa.


One that really annoys me with stuff like this is how Martin Taylor gets lumped in with some of the worst offenders quite a lot, even that Davies video you posted does it, that was not a bad intentioned challenge, it was similar to Evans at weekend really, yet the amount of stick Taylor received (he shouldn't be on a football pitch etc...) was totally uncalled for.
Wenger rightly retracted the comments on Taylor. It was a clear accident, and should not be mentioned in the offenders list, as you said. He said what he said in the heat of the moment, and having seen the severity of the injury - it's difficult to be cool after that. It was probably accentuated by the awful penalty decision that cost us the win as well.

I'd just love to see the blame being attached to people who really are worthy of it. Shawcross commits a shocking foul every other game, and gets no criticism for it. There has to come a point when we get rid of this hideous cliche of 'honest English lad' and accept that thugs exist, and should be removed from the game.
 

Snow

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And equally Rafael gets nothing for his challenge either. ;)

There needs to be retrospective action for particularly poor ones. Like Karl Henry's on Jordi Gomez this year was an absolute shocker and could have ended his career, and I'm not exaggerating. Three matches for that? Ludicrous. Especially when Aliadiere got a 4 match ban a few years back for slapping Mascherano.
Carragher and Rafael both got yellow. Nothing can be done about that.

I didn't think Rafael's tackle was horrible. He was just at some speed. No studs first, he was never going to hurt the player. Lucas even seemed to like the challenge. I know I enjoy a good fall from a tackle so long as the studs don't go straight to my leg and I get the free kick.

It's just the way it is and always have been. Somehow unprofessional behavior and things like lifting your jersey when celebrating or running towards your fans is just as bad as a bad tackle or deliberate stop of a counter attack at a crucial moment.

It's not just one or two things. The rules need a major overhaul for them to change. Don't think it will happen.
 

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Gallas' tackle vs Bolton could have been as much a leg breaker as Shawcross' or Taylor's imo. It's just the severity of the injury that decides the reaction to the tackle.
It was a very poor tackle, which should have received a ban.

I don't think it can compare to Shawcross' though, simply because there was absolutely no intent to go anywhere near the player. Shawcross was looking to get the man and the ball, whereas Gallas wasn't.
 

alastair

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Carragher and Rafael both got yellow. Nothing can be done about that.

I didn't think Rafael's tackle was horrible. He was just at some speed. No studs first, he was never going to hurt the player. Lucas even seemed to like the challenge. I know I enjoy a good fall from a tackle so long as the studs don't go straight to my leg and I get the free kick.

It's just the way it is and always have been. Somehow unprofessional behavior and things like lifting your jersey when celebrating or running towards your fans is just as bad as a bad tackle or deliberate stop of a counter attack at a crucial moment.

It's not just one or two things. The rules need a major overhaul for them to change. Don't think it will happen.

The Rafael one was certainly not at Carragher's level of hideousy.

I agree the rules need an overhaul - perhaps even an orange card, to fill the gap between yellow and red. In that way you can properly deal with poor challenges, whilst not sending people off for lifting their shirts up once they're on a yellow card.
 

Red Dreams

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The Rafael one was certainly not at Carragher's level of hideousy.

I agree the rules need an overhaul - perhaps even an orange card, to fill the gap between yellow and red. In that way you can properly deal with poor challenges, whilst not sending people off for lifting their shirts up once they're on a yellow card.
nah..the refs get confused enough as it is...more cards?

bloody ell. the game will become a joke.
 

alastair

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nah..the refs get confused enough as it is...more cards?

bloody ell. the game will become a joke.
I'm sure refs will be able to count to three.

On the Shawcross challenge, watch it back. He knew he was going to get the man, and he went in with excessive force. That's not even any kind of Arsenal bias, it's clear from the footage. Did he want to break Ramsey's leg? No, of course not. Did he want to 'make his presence felt'? Yes, I think so.
 

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Wenger rightly retracted the comments on Taylor. It was a clear accident, and should not be mentioned in the offenders list, as you said. He said what he said in the heat of the moment, and having seen the severity of the injury - it's difficult to be cool after that. It was probably accentuated by the awful penalty decision that cost us the win as well.

I'd just love to see the blame being attached to people who really are worthy of it. Shawcross commits a shocking foul every other game, and gets no criticism for it. There has to come a point when we get rid of this hideous cliche of 'honest English lad' and accept that thugs exist, and should be removed from the game.
The thing with Shawcross is I cant see him as a thug, I just see him as a big lad that is quite clumsy with his tackles, mainly as a result of commiting himself to tackling players that are far too fast for him to have any hope of getting the ball, meaning the ball has often gone which leads to him just colliding with the man, which causes serious problems.

utter nonsense.
Well it's not unusual for players to look to win the ball and hit the player they dispossess in one move.
 

Snow

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The Rafael one was certainly not at Carragher's level of hideousy.

I agree the rules need an overhaul - perhaps even an orange card, to fill the gap between yellow and red. In that way you can properly deal with poor challenges, whilst not sending people off for lifting their shirts up once they're on a yellow card.
There is a common sense rule. You see it all the time in games and sometimes it isn't used. Like if one team is consistently fouling and get 2 or 3 yellow cards in a small amount of time then the other team often doesn't have to do much to get a yellow themselves, simply as a precaution for the game not going overboard.

It's a difficult thing to balance though and also depends much on the crowd. I don't believe in the myth that is doesn't matter if you whine to the ref all the time. Otherwise players wouldn't do it so much.
 

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Before we get onto Shawcross, my views are pretty much epitomised by this.
I dont really agree with any of that. I actually quite like Arsenal (or more dont dislike them as much as others) as a club and if we were out of the league and it was between the usual suspects id be wanting them to win it hands down, nowhere near as repulsive as liverpool, city or chelsea. But I do hate thier hard done by attitude and how they fume about tackles like that ( which i still really dont think was as horrendous as it was made out, far worse goes unpunished because of no injury to the player) but i bet they arent complaining when wilshire flies in for tackles and i know they werent complaining when viera and petit were doing it. Theyve been unlucky but its ridiculous to think that they are the only ones it happens too.
 

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I do think that players need more protection in ways, but to say that Nasri had his leg ripped off is just pure shite. Wilshere's tackle was just as bad, but did our players moan? Nope, we just got on with it.

Arsenal players should remember the amount of red cards they've had since Wenger took over, they're hardly saints.
 

Red Dreams

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I'm sure refs will be able to count to three.

On the Shawcross challenge, watch it back. He knew he was going to get the man, and he went in with excessive force. That's not even any kind of Arsenal bias, it's clear from the footage. Did he want to break Ramsey's leg? No, of course not. Did he want to 'make his presence felt'? Yes, I think so.
uless there is a grudge or summat, players dont go to hurt other players. Players make shoulder charges and go strong for 50/50 balls to make their presence felt.

I saw it as it happened and did not see anything until the player was injured.

mind you, I dont always watch Stoke so I cannot say he is a recless player or not.