Manchester United 3:0 Partizan

RUCK4444 · Nov 7, 2019

el3mel said:
Know that once we win a game against crap opposition the Ole in crown will be full in force, like what they did with Norwich, then blame everyone else for moaning about a single loss or draw while they're doing the opposite with wins.

Anyway this lot is 4th in their own minnow league 10 points away from the top position.

Ha bite much. It’s like you lot just want Ole to do badly.

I could understand it if even one of you had a replacement in mind.

You must really enjoy the circus that is the merry go round of Manchester United managers.

el3mel · Nov 7, 2019

RUCK4444 said:
Ha bite much. It’s like you lot just want Ole to do badly.

I could understand it if even one of you had a replacement in mind.

You must really enjoy the circus that is the merry go round of Manchester United managers.

We don't want him to do bad. He's actually doing bad. Being delusional doesn't change. Beating Partizan or Norwich doesn't change that too.

momo83 · Nov 7, 2019

pocco said:
It's laughable anybody trying to take anything from that game. Partizan were lower league standard and we looked at their level for some of the game. The openings they found but let us off with would be punished in the PL. We need to be a lot better at the weekend.

What’s laughable about being happy for the win and being delighted for the entertaining first half?

I think Ole is the worse manager in the league... but doesn’t mean we can’t enjoy any good games that we have.

Should we read anything into it? no! Ole is still crap and we’ll probably lose to Brighton.

People who use it as some kind of justification that Ole deserves time are muppets, but at the same time people who sour mood of a good performance simply because they are Ole out are also making the manager bigger then the club

matt10000 · Nov 7, 2019

pocco said:
It's laughable anybody trying to take anything from that game. Partizan were lower league standard and we looked at their level for some of the game. The openings they found but let us off with would be punished in the PL. We need to be a lot better at the weekend.

We won 3-0 you do realise this?

RUCK4444 · Nov 7, 2019

el3mel said:
We don't want him to do bad. He's actually doing bad. Being delusional doesn't change. Beating Partizan or Norwich doesn't change that too.

Beating Chelsea twice and ending Liverpool’s run of wins do it for ya??

Listen we aren’t doing amazing but there are flashes of positivity there, some are just too sulky to give Ole a single positive word.

If Ole takes responsibility for EVERY negative, then by the same token he must take credit for every positive, no?

el3mel · Nov 7, 2019

RUCK4444 said:
Beating Chelsea twice and ending Liverpool’s run of wins do it for ya??

Listen we aren’t doing amazing but there are flashes of positivity there, some are just too sulky to give Ole a single positive word.

If Ole takes responsibility for EVERY negative, then by the same token he must take credit for every positive, no?

We are 10th in the league with number of losses more than wins after more than half of first leg done. That's being bad.

Of course he should take credit for positive things. It's fair. He got praised after Liverpool and Chelsea games. The problem is these positive are about non existent in comparison to all the negative things.

RUCK4444 · Nov 7, 2019

el3mel said:
We are 10th in the league with number of losses more than wins after more than half of first leg done. That's being bad.

Of course he should take credit for positive things. It's fair. He got praised after Liverpool and Chelsea games. The problem is these positive are about non existent in comparison to all the negative things.

I agree, that’s why I say we are hardly doing amazing. Except it’s like people want to rush in and shut down any positive observation. If nothing else it makes the season even more painfully slow to wallow in the negativity here.

I’m not saying he’s the man to take us forward but we need to remember he inherited a shower of shite that needed gutting and re-building. He’s had one window in which Ed the clown only signed three players and didn’t replace our highest goalscorer.

Injuries have us playing teenagers in every area of the pitch. It’s not really the same as Mourinho being 7th/8th after multiple windows.

People act like we should be top four, that was never happening no matter what manager we had at the start of this season.

el3mel · Nov 7, 2019

RUCK4444 said:
I agree, that’s why I say we are hardly doing amazing. Except it’s like people want to rush in and shut down any positive observation. If nothing else it makes the season even more painfully slow to wallow in the negativity here.

I’m not saying he’s the man to take us forward but we need to remember he inherited a shower of shite that needed gutting and re-building. He’s had one window in which Ed the clown only signed three players and didn’t replace our highest goalscorer.

Injuries have us playing teenagers in every area of the pitch. It’s not really the same as Mourinho being 7th/8th after multiple windows.

People act like we should be top four, that was never happening no matter what manager we had at the start of this season.

No one was shutting out positive comments. You jumped on with a sarcastic comment about what people have been saying during the season a sif today is an evidence that what people were saying was BS which is simply not true. Otherwise people were praising the performance. What was the purpose of your comment then?

Saying he inherited a shower of shite is not true and simply writing history. The squad he got finished 2nd the season before he got the job, beating all teams in the league and having the second best record in big teams after City in this season, before Mourinho meltdown. No one told him to mass sell players before being sure they will get replaced or not.

The fact that we are entering the season with zero expectations of finishing top 4 can't be used an excuse surely? The expectations for not finishing top 4 came out from the fact fans lowered their expectations to rock bottom before the season starts so that any thing Ole will do will look decent.

Of course better managing of the transfer window and better tactics would have put us in better position. No one of the previous managers got a free cheque book and neither was Ole. He spent 150m on players and let Lukaku leave in the last few days of the market when not being sure if we will be able to get a replacement or not. He also prioritized paying 80m for Maguire than spending money on a midfielder to replace Herrera and Fellaini. It's simply his choice that's all. He got the money and decided these were his priorities and preferred the money to be put there. I'm not sure anyone predict him or any previous or upcoming manager to have a cheque book of +200 to spend freely each summer.

Another manager with better planning of summer and better tactics would have have had us closer to top 4 at least.

RUCK4444 · Nov 8, 2019

el3mel said:
No one was shutting out positive comments. You jumped on with a sarcastic comment about what people have been saying during the season a sif today is an evidence that what people were saying was BS which is simply not true. Otherwise people were praising the performance. What was the purpose of your comment then?

Saying he inherited a shower of shite is not true and simply writing history. The squad he got finished 2nd the season before he got the job, beating all teams in the league and having the second best record in big teams after City in this season, before Mourinho meltdown. No one told him to mass sell players before being sure they will get replaced or not.

The fact that we are entering the season with zero expectations of finishing top 4 can't be used an excuse surely? The expectations for not finishing top 4 came out from the fact fans lowered their expectations to rock bottom before the season starts so that any thing Ole will do will look decent.

Of course better managing of the transfer window and better tactics would have put us in better position. No one of the previous managers got a free cheque book and neither was Ole. He spent 150m on players and let Lukaku leave in the last few days of the market when not being sure if we will be able to get a replacement or not. He also prioritized paying 80m for Maguire than spending money on a midfielder to replace Herrera and Fellaini. It's simply his choice that's all. He got the money and decided these were his priorities and preferred the money to be put there. I'm not sure anyone predict him or any previous or upcoming manager to have a cheque book of +200 to spend freely each summer.

Another manager with better planning of summer and better tactics would have have had us closer to top 4 at least.

Yeah fair enough I was trying to get a bite with my initial comment but it’s just out of frustration and the never ending negativity. I also noted that it was only Belgrade, my comment was about there being zero coaching.

People were saying the usual ‘it’s only Belgrade’ rubbish in order to erase any praise Ole can take from a positive performance.

This thread and others are littered with it.

Ole’s signings have been spot on, all three have played well and more or less hit the ground running. Do you think for a minute he would have only signed three players and happily let a greater amount leave? On what planet does any manager want that.

Ed, as usual, has let us down in the summer. Anybody that thinks Ole would happily let Lukaku go without a replacement being assured from Ed are stupid or have an Ole agenda.
No manager let’s that happen.

Take a look at what Real Madrid did when they needed a rebuild, compare that to our net spend after Lukaku left without a replacement. Night and day.

el3mel · Nov 8, 2019

RUCK4444 said:
Yeah fair enough I was trying to get a bite with my initial comment but it’s just out of frustration and the never ending negativity.

People were saying the usual ‘it’s only Belgrade’ rubbish in order to erase any praise Ole can take from a positive performance.

This thread and others are littered with it.

Ole’s signings have been spot on, all three have played well and more or less hit the ground running. Do you think for a minute he would have only signed three players and happily let a greater amount leave? On what planet does any manager want that.

Ed, as usual, has let us down in the summer. Anybody that thinks Ole would happily let Lukaku go without a replacement being assured from Ed are stupid or have an Ole agenda.
No manager let’s that happen.

Take a look at what Real Madrid did when they needed a rebuild, compare that to our net spend after Lukaku left without a replacement. Night and day.

Look, I had a discussion similar to that previously today, and brought quotes from Ole himself saying pre Maguire signing saying we will get 1 or 2 more. Post that he was talking about the idea "the right target we wanted in the attack we couldn't get" so it's fair to assume he got 3 out of 4 players he wanted, and one of those 3 was his first transfer target (Maguire) in Ole's own words. So yeah imo Ole deserves as much blame for summer planning as Woodward.

nore1975 · Nov 8, 2019

He needs at least three seasons to build a side. His early signings look promising. Rebuilds often contain more bad days than good. If he continues to make good signings the good days will outweigh them if all stakeholders hold their nerve.

RUCK4444 · Nov 8, 2019

el3mel said:
Look, I had a discussion similar to that previously today, and brought quotes from Ole himself saying pre Maguire signing saying we will get 1 or 2 more. Post that he was talking about the idea "the right target we wanted in the attack we couldn't get" so it's fair to assume he got 3 out of 4 players he wanted, and one of those 3 was his first transfer target (Maguire) in Ole's own words. So yeah imo Ole deserves as much blame for summer planning as Woodward.

I fail to see your significant negative around signing Maguire.

Signing Maguire first, as you say, is not prerequisite to letting our highest scorer leave. The two players were likely never in the same conversation.

Ole was just toeing the company line saying it was his choice to let him go and couldn’t get who he wanted in to replace him. Can you imagine the press jumping on ‘Ole says he was promised a top striker but wasn’t backed’ blah.

Ole is not an idiot and he would have sought assurances from Ed on the replacement, I mean a feckin’ 12 year on fifa wouldn’t sell their best scorer and sign a defender!?

Part of the reason why people feel the need to defend Ole is that people like to attribute failings from the board to him as well.

el3mel · Nov 8, 2019

RUCK4444 said:
I fail to see your significant negative around signing Maguire.

Signing Maguire first, as you say, is not prerequisite to letting our highest scorer leave. The two players were likely never in the same conversation.

Ole was just toeing the company line saying it was his choice to let him go and couldn’t get who he wanted in to replace him.
Ole is not an idiot and he would have sought assurances from Ed on the replacement, I mean a feckin’ 12 year on fifa would sell his best scorer and sign a defender!?

Part of the reason why people feel the need to defend Ole is that people like to attribute failings from the board to him as well.

Ole was the one who wanted Lukaku to go no matter what and defended his decision several times. As for replacing him, as I said his fourth target in summer was a striker, as going per his quotes and that's on Woodward, but that's not what I'm blaming him for, I'm blaming him for letting go of Herrera and Fellaini and prioritizing the defense over them. That was his own choice and he has to be responsible for it imo. All his talk post the summer was that we couldn't get our right target in the attack, nothing about the midfield.

As for Maguire, I liked and wanted him, however for 80m he hasn't done anything outstanding and had only been a marginal upgrade over Smalling in terms of ball control. For 80m I expected more than being decent but not outstanding. Considering the state of both midfield and defense entering summer market, I wonder what would have happened all things cobsidered if we delayed Maguire signing one more season, or even to Jan, entered this one with Smalling and focused the budget on at least 1 midfielder. It's not like any other club was interested in Maguire anyway and City backed off from the deal for thinking he's overpriced.

But as I said it was Ole's choice at the end to prioritize defense over midfield and decided to put the majority of our budget into CB. Whether the outcome is positive or negative he should take responsibility for it. Woodward might be responsible for us not getting an attacker by the end of the market but Ole wasn't blameless either.

pocco · Nov 8, 2019

momo83 said:
What’s laughable about being happy for the win and being delighted for the entertaining first half?

I think Ole is the worse manager in the league... but doesn’t mean we can’t enjoy any good games that we have.

Should we read anything into it? no! Ole is still crap and we’ll probably lose to Brighton.

People who use it as some kind of justification that Ole deserves time are muppets, but at the same time people who sour mood of a good performance simply because they are Ole out are also making the manager bigger then the club

I'm just tired of seeing people walk into the same false hope every time and taking as though we're 'turning the corner' for the 2nd time in a few weeks. How about some common sense and realism? We beat a thoroughly dreadful team and looked poor for periods in attack and should have been punished a few times in defence.

The second a team that is compact in defence and more ability in the ball turns up it'll be back to square one, as it was against Bournemouth. Let's talk about keeping up the exciting football when we've strung 5 or 6 good performances together against proper teams.

matt10000 said:
We won 3-0 you do realise this?

So shall we pretend everything us good again and forget that we've been here before? Unlike others I didn't buy into us turning a corner after a couple of wins recently because I already know, as did everybody, that certain games suit us better than others and these are games we did well in recently. It's the same story of the last couple of years. I'm not going to pretend beating Partizan Belgrade means anything outside of 3 points in the Europa League. It's great that we'll get to the next round but I'm more concerned with the bigger picture.

pocco · Nov 8, 2019

RUCK4444 said:
Beating Chelsea twice and ending Liverpool’s run of wins do it for ya??

Listen we aren’t doing amazing but there are flashes of positivity there, some are just too sulky to give Ole a single positive word.

If Ole takes responsibility for EVERY negative, then by the same token he must take credit for every positive, no?

Beat Chelsea, good performance vs Liverpool and beat Norwich. These are the performances recently that made people think we'd turned a corner. The reality is we are a counter attacking team that does better when they don't have the ball for too long and play as underdogs. That's why we did well vs these 3 teams that try to attack. Go back to last season and you'll see the same, even under Jose vs Spurs and Arsenal I think it was. These games aren't the issue. The teams that are an issue are the teams that allow us the ball and we then have to show a plan b or even an idea if how to break down a compact defence. See the first 15 minutes vs Bournemouth compared to the following 75 minutes.

momo83 · Nov 8, 2019

pocco said:
I'm just tired of seeing people walk into the same false hope every time and taking as though we're 'turning the corner' for the 2nd time in a few weeks. How about some common sense and realism? We beat a thoroughly dreadful team and looked poor for periods in attack and should have been punished a few times in defence.

The second a team that is compact in defence and more ability in the ball turns up it'll be back to square one, as it was against Bournemouth. Let's talk about keeping up the exciting football when we've strung 5 or 6 good performances together against proper teams.

So shall we pretend everything us good again and forget that we've been here before? Unlike others I didn't buy into us turning a corner after a couple of wins recently because I already know, as did everybody, that certain games suit us better than others and these are games we did well in recently. It's the same story of the last couple of years. I'm not going to pretend beating Partizan Belgrade means anything outside of 3 points in the Europa League. It's great that we'll get to the next round but I'm more concerned with the bigger picture.

like I said. Just enjoy the entertaining 45 minutes and victory. Every game doesn’t have to be about Ole out or Ole in. No one judges a manager crap based on one defeat, so likewise only a the most naive will let one victory vs any team make them think a manager is good.

RUCK4444 · Nov 8, 2019

el3mel said:
Ole was the one who wanted Lukaku to go no matter what and defended his decision several times. As for replacing him, as I said his fourth target in summer was a striker, as going per his quotes and that's on Woodward, but that's not what I'm blaming him for, I'm blaming him for letting go of Herrera and Fellaini and prioritizing the defense over them. That was his own choice and he has to be responsible for it imo. All his talk post the summer was that we couldn't get our right target in the attack, nothing about the midfield.

As for Maguire, I liked and wanted him, however for 80m he hasn't done anything outstanding and had only been a marginal upgrade over Smalling in terms of ball control. For 80m I expected more than being decent but not outstanding. Considering the state of both midfield and defense entering summer market, I wonder what would have happened all things cobsidered if we delayed Maguire signing one more season, or even to Jan, entered this one with Smalling and focused the budget on at least 1 midfielder. It's not like any other club was interested in Maguire anyway and City backed off from the deal for thinking he's overpriced.

But as I said it was Ole's choice at the end to prioritize defense over midfield and decided to put the majority of our budget into CB. Whether the outcome is positive or negative he should take responsibility for it. Woodward might be responsible for us not getting an attacker by the end of the market but Ole wasn't blameless either.

I didn’t see Ole being desperate to get rid of Lukaku, what I saw was that Lukaku was desperate to suck off Conte again. Ole wouldn’t have wanted a player that wasn’t committed and rightly so, this is Lukaku we are talking about not Van Persie.

Maguire was always going to cost that amount and with big signings you have to strike while the opportunity is there. Most managers would have wanted to get that one over the line rather than risk waiting until the next window.

Also who’s to know who Ole prioritised?

For all we know he may have wanted Dybala and Sancho... except every deal is different and your not guaranteed any of them.

At this point United must make the right signings, I’m willing to wait and get three players per window of the exact profile we need rather than spunk tens of millions on more Freds and Lukaku’s.

I’m also sure he would have liked to sign at least one midfielder. However letting Fellaini go was a must and signalled us moving away from that plan B lump the ball to Afro man nonsense.
Herrera wanted crazy money, his age and performances didn’t warrant it - again a changing in approach from us throwing money at average players.

These changes, whilst they don’t get fans on the edge of their seat, are small but fundamental changes away from the truly abysmal recruitment strategy we’ve had post SAF.
You can choose not to see it and throw another manager at it who will no doubt want their own players and the cycle continues.

To some extent I’m interested in off the pitch changes as much as on field performances. Crazy idea eh?

RUCK4444 · Nov 8, 2019

pocco said:
Beat Chelsea, good performance vs Liverpool and beat Norwich. These are the performances recently that made people think we'd turned a corner. The reality is we are a counter attacking team that does better when they don't have the ball for too long and play as underdogs. That's why we did well vs these 3 teams that try to attack. Go back to last season and you'll see the same, even under Jose vs Spurs and Arsenal I think it was. These games aren't the issue. The teams that are an issue are the teams that allow us the ball and we then have to show a plan b or even an idea if how to break down a compact defence. See the first 15 minutes vs Bournemouth compared to the following 75 minutes.

Yes I agree these are things we are aware of, except I don’t necessarily believe another manager (who by the way?) gets this team in its current state during a rebuild into top four.

As you say, these issues stem back further than Ole, we haven’t been a particularly creative team for a long time and at the moment we are currently fielding teenagers and a midfield that often resembles a pub team (McTominay aside.)

Creation from midfield has been a long standing issue, I believe that’s why Ole was interested in Dybala.
A few more signings last summer and we would look a different side.

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