Manchester United 0:1 West Ham United

Red00012 · Sep 21, 2021

———————Heaton/Hendo——————-

Dalot ——Lindelof —— Bailly ——Shaw

——————-Matic ———-Donny————-

Greenwood ———Lingard————Sancho—

————————-—-Martial———————————

Telles in Shaw if fit

Bertie Wooster · Sep 21, 2021

MvG said:
Yeah I don’t wish that on anyone. Would be really ironic considering it would in effect be a blessing in disguise though. Such a pointless competition.

That's become a fashionable attitude but I really don't get it.

It's a competition played by all the same teams who compete in the FA Cup, mostly won by the same teams who win the FA Cup, and is one of the 3 big domestic trophies we can win.

It was deemed good enough for Sir Alex to win it 4 times, City to care enough to win it 6 times in 8 years while also delivering league titles and FA Cups. We haven't won anything in 4 years - there's no way winning it at this stage should be deemed 'pointless' or beneath us.

roseguy64 · Sep 21, 2021

Annihilate Now! said:
GK:Heaton

RB: Dalot
CB: Lindelof
CB: Bailly
LB: Telles

CM: Matic
CM; VdB
AM: Mata

LW: Lingard
CF: Martial
RW: Sancho

Gotta say, that's a very strong second XI.

This is what I hope we play. With Cavani, Hannbal and Elanga coming on as subs.

Bertie Wooster · Sep 21, 2021

LawCharltonBest said:
Start Sancho, go for the win.

People will say feck the cup but I would love to win it. First trophy under Ole will be great. I was buzzing after the last League Cup win vs Southampton. Trophy is trophy.

Completely agree.

So glad to read there's at least one other person who still sees winning domestic cups as something to celebrate.

I can't believe we've reached a point were major cup competitions like the FA Cup, League Cup, Europa League are seen as irrelevant trophies by many fans as 'only the CL matters'.

Bastian · Sep 21, 2021

I don't particularly care about the cups, other than wanting to see Mejbri getting minutes. But people have to start to realise that Lindelof paired with Bailly is an atrocious thing and should never be allowed to happen, not even if we're playing a League Two side in the FA Cup.

And to suggest that against a physical and tall West Ham side is mindless.

RedTiger · Sep 21, 2021

Bertie Wooster said:
Completely agree.

So glad to read there's at least one other person who still sees winning domestic cups as something to celebrate.

I can't believe we've reached a point were major cup competitions like the FA Cup, League Cup, Europa League are seen as irrelevant trophies by many fans as 'only the CL matters'.

You can count me as well. As a united fan, I want us to go hard in every single competition. I don't care if it's the Manchester Senior Cup or the intertoto cup. It's hard to win a treble or a double if you don't take the cups seriously.

EtH · Sep 21, 2021

Bertie Wooster said:
That's become a fashionable attitude but I really don't get it.

It's a competition played by all the same teams who compete in the FA Cup, mostly won by the same teams who win the FA Cup, and is one of the 3 big domestic trophies we can win.

It was deemed good enough for Sir Alex to win it 4 times, City to care enough to win it 6 times in 8 years while also delivering league titles and FA Cups. We haven't won anything in 4 years - there's no way winning it at this stage should be deemed 'pointless' or beneath us.

I don’t care how Pep or any oil club may approach it. It’s a second rate cup and not a major trophy. SAF won it without playing our strongest teams. He always played youth in the League Cup. And if we went out we went out.

Ask yourself this. Is it worth potentially fecking up the FA Cup or even one PL or CL fixture going after the CC ? The answer is a resounding no for me. Quite simply I would rather we focus on the proper competitions.

Nothing fashionable about it. Just priorities.

Nicoseth · Sep 21, 2021

I'd definitely rest Ronnie, Bruno, Varane, Maguire, AWB and Shaw. I'd go - Hendo, Dalot (RB), Lindelof, Bailly, Telles, Fred, Donny, Sancho, Jesse, Greenwood, Martial.

If Cavani is fit, he's start ahead of Martial.

USREDEVIL · Sep 21, 2021

De Gea
Dalot Maguire Lindelof Shaw
Fred McT
VDB
Lingard Martial Sancho

JustinC00 · Sep 21, 2021

RDCR07 said:
Ole isn’t known for rotating 9-10 players from previous matches.

he rotated 9-10 in all the league cup matches last season except for the semi-final vs citeh and we had 4 days off before that and then we had a FA Cup match 3 days after that which he rotated 9 for that match.

Bertie Wooster · Sep 21, 2021

MvG said:
I don’t care how Pep or any oil club may approach it. It’s a second rate cup and not a major trophy. SAF won it without playing our strongest teams. He always played youth in the League Cup. And if we went out we went out.

Ask yourself this. Is it worth potentially fecking up the FA Cup or even one PL or CL fixture going after the CC ? The answer is a resounding no for me. Quite simply I would rather we focus on the proper competitions.

Nothing fashionable about it. Just priorities.

It's those changing priorities - seeing formerly respected cups as not 'proper competitions' - that I was alluding to as being a 'fashionable attitude'.

It was always the case that winning a trophy was better than finishing a place or two higher in the league (apart from, obviously, winning the league). As recent as earlier this century, managers - especially Wenger - would be slated for a trophyless season while celebrating the 'top 4 trophy' of a CL spot. That all seemed to change around the time Arsenal did start winning the FA Cup but finishing outside the top 4 and were slated for poor seasons - while Spurs were praised for getting top 4 spots but in trophyless seasons. Suddenly that had become a source of celebration as a CL spot was now being deemed more important than a domestic trophy.

My priority is that, yes, if given the choice I'd choose winning the PL or CL - but I also see the other cups as 'proper competitions' and would celebrate winning any of the other trophies we're competing in as teams can go years / decades without winning anything so I don't take the trophy successes for granted, or treat them as pointless and not 'proper', when they occur.

lostcauz · Sep 21, 2021

I’ll throw something different out there.

Henderson
Lindelof Magiure Shaw
Dalot Matic Pogba Telles
Sancho Lingard
Martial

Sancho and Lingard behind Martial
Dalot and Telles not good enough at defending to both be playing in our standard formation.

EtH · Sep 21, 2021

Bertie Wooster said:
It's those changing priorities - seeing formerly respected cups as not 'proper competitions' - that I was alluding to as being a 'fashionable attitude'.

It was always the case that winning a trophy was better than finishing a place or two higher in the league (apart from, obviously, winning the league). As recent as earlier this century, managers - especially Wenger - would be slated for a trophyless season while celebrating the 'top 4 trophy' of a CL spot. That all seemed to change around the time Arsenal did start winning the FA Cup but finishing outside the top 4 and were slated for poor seasons - while Spurs were praised for getting top 4 spots but in trophyless seasons. Suddenly that had become a source of celebration as a CL spot was now being deemed more important than a domestic trophy.

My priority is that, yes, if given the choice I'd choose winning the PL or CL - but I also see the other cups as 'proper competitions' and would celebrate winning any of the other trophies we're competing in as teams can go years / decades without winning anything so I don't take the trophy successes for granted, or treat them as pointless and not 'proper', when they occur.

When was the League Cup ever respected as you say or regarded as a major trophy ? Go back even a decade never mind two and it was viewed as an afterthought by the big clubs. A competition for the kids.

So if anything the only change is some fans and managers taking it more seriously in the past 5-10 years. Which is understandable for clubs who are unlikely to win anything else I suppose. But for clubs aiming for major trophies it strikes me as smalltime.

Would anyone regard this season as a success if the CC were our only trophy ? I certainly wouldn’t and it barely registered with me when we won it under Jose. In fact I think certain managers like to treat it more seriously as it is convenient for them to do so.

lex talionis · Sep 21, 2021

This is an important competition for us in the sense that it allows Plan B players to get competitive minutes. Winning the league cup would be nice but it’s clearly not a top priority.

suheilsworld · Sep 21, 2021

Surely we have the squad to rotate and still play a strong team with Lindelof, Baily, Telles, Matic, Donny, Lingard, Sancho, Martial

Cavani would have been a better option up front than Martial as they might have Diop and Dawson at the back

CG1010 · Sep 21, 2021

Dalot is shoe in to start - need him to play some first XI football before our CL matches start.

Sancho, DVB, Mata and Lingard will also play. Expect some good combination play and movement from those 4. Just hope they are incisive enough to create opportunities.

SAFMUTD · Sep 21, 2021

Being honest I couldn't care less about this cup, play the B team, give youngsters the minutes.

groovyalbert · Sep 21, 2021

Would def play one of Varane or Maguire.

If people are wanting the likes of Sancho, Martial and Donny to find form, they're going to need some foundation behind them.

Heaton

Dalot
Lindelof
Maguire
Telles

Matic
Donny

Sancho
Mata
Lingard

Martial

Would like to see Elanga and Amad at some point too.

SecondFig · Sep 21, 2021

groovyalbert said:
Would def play one of Varane or Maguire.

If people are wanting the likes of Sancho, Martial and Donny to find form, they're going to need some foundation behind them.

Heaton

Dalot
Lindelof
Maguire
Telles

Matic
Donny

Sancho
Mata
Lingard

Martial

Would like to see Elanga and Amad at some point too.

That's about what I'd like to see, but maybe with McT next to Matic (as he's working back to full fitness) and DVB instead of Mata. Also really want to see Ronaldo dropped - partially to keep him fresh for the weekend, but also to stop the rubbish about Ole being unable/afraid to leave him out of the team

groovyalbert · Sep 21, 2021

SecondFig said:
That's about what I'd like to see, but maybe with McT next to Matic (as he's working back to full fitness) and DVB instead of Mata. Also really want to see Ronaldo dropped - partially to keep him fresh for the weekend, but also to stop the rubbish about Ole being unable/afraid to leave him out of the team

Is anyone seriously saying this? He's been here for 3 games and was substituted in one, even when we weren't winning.

Adcuth · Sep 21, 2021

This is one of those games where we say he should rest Maguire, but then he ends up playing 90 mins.

SecondFig · Sep 21, 2021

groovyalbert said:
Is anyone seriously saying this? He's been here for 3 games and was substituted in one, even when we weren't winning.

I've seen a lot of rubbish about whether Ole is "strong enough" to manage Ronaldo etc., this is a good opportunity dampen down those particular flames. That said, the main reason I don't want Ronaldo to play is to keep him fresh for the weekend - the quieting idiots is just a bonus

Inigo Montoya · Sep 21, 2021

IRELANDUNITED said:
Where’s Amad? I’d like to see him get some minutes

Is this like Where’s Wally?

Jacob · Sep 21, 2021

Elanga, Amad and Mejbri must get minutes.

Champ · Sep 21, 2021

Is Amad still injured??

largelyworried · Sep 21, 2021

Bertie Wooster said:
That's become a fashionable attitude but I really don't get it.

It's a competition played by all the same teams who compete in the FA Cup, mostly won by the same teams who win the FA Cup, and is one of the 3 big domestic trophies we can win.

It was deemed good enough for Sir Alex to win it 4 times, City to care enough to win it 6 times in 8 years while also delivering league titles and FA Cups. We haven't won anything in 4 years - there's no way winning it at this stage should be deemed 'pointless' or beneath us.

Winning it is great, I'm always happy to win it. Going out in the quarters or semis however isn’t. With the CL, a run to the quarters or semis can be seen as a half-decent achievement and you probably knocked out a decent team or two getting there. With the FA Cup, it replaces the league for the first couple of weekends anyway so there's a certain novelty to it. The first few rounds of the FA Cup are still fun, even if the FA Cup isn't as important as it was.

But with the league cup, there's little interest in the early games, since its uncommon to play an interesting team before the semis. The only novelty value is giving your bench a run out. There's three extra mid-week games before Christmas, which never seem to come at a good time. For example, this year's 4th round fixture falls slap bang in the middle of our most difficult run of the year, where we play Leicester, Atalanta, Liverpool, Spurs, Atalanta then City in three weeks. The quarter finals are Christmas week this year for some reason, which is particularly shite. Then being in the final always shunts a game right to the end of the season, which means fixture congestion on the run in.

All of which is no problem at all if you actually win the thing. The final is a decent day out still & its a trophy. But if you lose in the final or the semis then all you've done is make your league campaign that much harder, and no-one will remember that run to the league cup semis of 2022.

Adnan · Sep 21, 2021

Jacob said:
Elanga, Amad and Mejbri must get minutes.

Amad is injured and i'm doubtful Mejbri features. Liverpool on the other hand are expected to hand a debut to 16 year old Kaide Gordon tonight according to reports and Klopp's assistant Ljinders is quoted as saying it's more important to show the kids a clear pathway to the first team than winning the competition.

It seems they're using the competition to give opportunities to a few of their younger players.

Adam-Utd · Sep 21, 2021

Adnan said:
Amad is injured and i'm doubtful Mejbri features. Liverpool on the other hand are expected to hand a debut to 16 year old Kaide Gordon tonight according to reports and Klopp's assistant Ljinders is quoted as saying it's more important to show the kids a clear pathway to the first team than winning the competition.

It seems they're using the competition to give opportunities to a few of their younger players.

Are Liverpool playing a premier league side?

Tony247 · Sep 21, 2021

Hope not the same ref

Brightonian · Sep 21, 2021

Given absolute free choice, I'd want to play a strong starting XI with one youngster in it. Something like this:

Henderson
AWB Varane Maguire Shaw
Matic Mejbri
Greenwood Lingard Sancho
Martial

Cavani over Martial if fit.

Adnan · Sep 21, 2021

Adam-Utd said:
Are Liverpool playing a premier league side?

Yes, Norwich away.

Adam-Utd · Sep 21, 2021

Adnan said:
Yes, Norwich away.

Not sure you can count them as a premier league side

I do think we could risk getting Mejbri or Elanga into the side no problem, in fact I can see Elanga starting LW.

I'd like to see Mejbri maybe get 20 minutes once VDB starts to tire out also, but obviously depends how the match is going.

I'm not sure West Ham will go full strength either considering their heavy schedule over the last week.

Jaxa · Sep 21, 2021

___________Heaton_______
_Dalot_Lindelof_Maguire_Telles
________Donny__Matic________
__GWood___Lingard____Sancho__
___________Martial______________

I think it will be a heavily rotated squad tbh with something like the above, personally i'd rest Maguire and play Varane and have Greenwood up top and Mata on the right but can see Captain Fantastic and Martial play for sure

Sassy Colin · Sep 21, 2021

Is Henderson fit yet?

Bilbo · Sep 21, 2021

lex talionis said:
This is an important competition for us in the sense that it allows Plan B players to get competitive minutes

Agreed

Bertie Wooster · Sep 21, 2021

largelyworried said:
Winning it is great, I'm always happy to win it. Going out in the quarters or semis however isn’t. With the CL, a run to the quarters or semis can be seen as a half-decent achievement and you probably knocked out a decent team or two getting there. With the FA Cup, it replaces the league for the first couple of weekends anyway so there's a certain novelty to it. The first few rounds of the FA Cup are still fun, even if the FA Cup isn't as important as it was.

But with the league cup, there's little interest in the early games, since its uncommon to play an interesting team before the semis. The only novelty value is giving your bench a run out. There's three extra mid-week games before Christmas, which never seem to come at a good time. For example, this year's 4th round fixture falls slap bang in the middle of our most difficult run of the year, where we play Leicester, Atalanta, Liverpool, Spurs, Atalanta then City in three weeks. The quarter finals are Christmas week this year for some reason, which is particularly shite. Then being in the final always shunts a game right to the end of the season, which means fixture congestion on the run in.

All of which is no problem at all if you actually win the thing. The final is a decent day out still & its a trophy. But if you lose in the final or the semis then all you've done is make your league campaign that much harder, and no-one will remember that run to the league cup semis of 2022.

Good, detailed response.

I can appreciate those issues with the competition, especially the ones individual to this season and the timing of the rounds and our tough run of fixtures, etc.

It's a much more valid argument than just the throwaway 'pointless competition', 'who cares if we win a tinpot cup', etc.

Anyway, back to the line up: I can accept giving a rest to a few of the key regulars - such as Shaw, Fernandes, Ronaldo (but have them on the bench for if needed). But I'm surprised to see AWB rested in many predictions - he's not an international and so has rests over the summer and each international week, and now only played 35 mins in the first CL game and will get another complete rest for the second while suspended. He should definitely feature tomorrow if it's being used to rest some other regulars who haven't had those breaks.

sincher · Sep 21, 2021

I reckon they might go for 3 at at the back (Diop, Dawson, Johnson maybe, with Fredericks and Masuaku attacking full backs). If so, we will need to attack down the sides and stretch them across. Sancho, Martial and Lingard behind Cavani or Greenwood should work. Hope Cavani is fit, that would help a lot.

If they play their reserve midfield of Kral and Noble we should be ok with Matic and VDB there I would say, but stronger bet is that one of Fred or McTominay will play.

tomaldinho1 · Sep 21, 2021

SER19 said:
Couldn't care less

Heaton
Dalot
Bailly
Lindelof
Telles

Matic
Mctominay
Vdb

Sancho
Cavani
Lingard

Agree. Full second string, if we get beaten 0-5 couldn’t care less about this one. Waste of space on the calendar!

lenny_1248 · Sep 21, 2021

I'd be pissed if Ole picks Mata over Elanga.
Nothing personal, Mata is a great guy, but c'mon, Elanga has already showed that he can play on that level. He needs game time.
Will be interesting to see whether he plays against Bradford today. I hope not.

BeforeKeanetherewasRobson · Sep 21, 2021

You go with a half decent team, bit of squad rotation and try to win it. We need/should go for trophies.

If we had a crystal ball and could see that a long (unsuccessful) run in the cups lost us a title or CL, I could absolutely understand playing a weak team.

But we don’t… we need a trophy… the squad is good enough to cope. Bringing in Dalot, Lindelof, Dvdb, Matic, Martial etc is still a decent team.

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