Youth Development Over the Past Five Years

Walrus

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Manchester United has long been a club famous for bringing through brilliant youngsters. Obviously the class of '92 was the best example of this, but there have been countless others over the years. In fact it seems like almost every PL game I watch features at least 2-3 ex-united academy lads, which is great in my opinion.

Recently though, I think we have been really, really poor in terms of bringing through and developing the younger players in our squad, and that is one of the factors in what is hurting us at the moment. Examples;

Cleverley - Old TC23, once thought to be the United version of Wilshere, whilst the likes of Henderson were scoffed at. Now he is the target of as much hostility and animosity as Young. Cleverley is a bit of a unique case though as he is one player who has not suffered from a lack of gametime, so perhaps not the best example.

Smalling and Jones - Both these two are in very much the same boat for me. Signed as youngsters, looked very promising. What happened? They were consistently overlooked in the first team as the aging Rio and Vidic were continually picked. Jones got some games at RB and CM, as did Smalling at RB, but neither of them ever really had the runs of games in their natural position that they needed to develop.
We see young CBs like Chambers, Caulker and Cahill who were probably again regarded as inferior to our lads, but those players were actually given games at CB consistently and have turned into good players.

The irony with Smalling & Jones of course, is that now we are without Rio and Vidic, suddenly the verdict is that these two arent good enough and are too inexperienced, when but a few short years ago there were voices crying out for them to be given more gametime.

Pogba - Not a lot needs to be said really. We didnt give him games at CM, he left. Plenty of rumours about agent fees and all that, but im pretty sure if we had played Pogba regularly in the first team he would still be here. Now he is regarded as one of the brightest young midfielders in Europe, if not the world.

Januzaj - Fantastic breakthrough season last year. Firmly in the top tier catergory of youth prospect along with the likes of Pogba and Sterling, but now seems to be struggling to get games while the other two play consistently and improve week on week.
Its early days in the season, but most fans agree that Adnan should be one of the first names on the teamsheet, and needs to be playing every week so that he can turn into the world class player that we all know he can be.

As it stands, he hasnt featured much thus far under LVG, and with the arrival of Falcao and Di Maria it can only harm his first team chances. Sterling meanwhile, plays every week and is lauded as the most exciting young player in the PL.

Welbeck - In a similar position to Smalling and Jones, struggled to get gametime, and when he did it tended to be out wide rather than up front. Obviously there has been a lot of competition for our striker roles (more now with Falcao coming in) and Danny again looks like he could be on the way out.

Welbecks comparison player? Sturridge is the obvious one. Same story that a few years ago they were regarded as equal, with many preferring Welbeck due to Sturridge's decision making and selfishness. Now of course, there is no contest as Sturridge has played regularly for Liverpool and turned into a reliable and dangerous striker. Welbeck meanwhile continues to warm the bench.


There are more players who have suffered the same sort of fate - you could argue that Blackett, James, Wilson and even Fabio have been let down a bit by the club, but the above are the best examples for me.

The running theme is that compared with players for other teams in similar roles/positions a few years ago, ours have not been developed and have stagnated as a result, whilst others have played regularly, improved and become excellent players. For a club which is meant to be known for bringing through younger players, this is unacceptable for me - and now with us signing the likes of Falcao, it seems to me that the club no longer values the development of our younger players.

Its early days in this season, but I am not exclusively referring to this season - the examples I have given are for players who 3-5 years ago were regarded as far better prospects/players than they have now become (the exception being Januzaj who was relatively unknown 5 years ago, but is also in danger of stagnating due to lack of gametime).
 

NinjaFletch

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Out of interest, is there any statistics for how many minutes our youth prospects have played for us over the past few seasons in comparison to other big clubs?

I reckon we'd come out well. Welbeck and Cleverley have had more than their fair share of chances and as much as I love Welbeck if he hasn't made himself undroppable at some point you have to hold him to account too. The only player who hasn't really gotten minutes for some reason is Pogba.
 

Sam

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It's been terrible for a quite a while in terms of players never reaching their potential.
 

Walrus

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Out of interest, is there any statistics for how many minutes our youth prospects have played for us over the past few seasons in comparison to other big clubs?

I reckon we'd come out well. Welbeck and Cleverley have had more than their fair share of chances and as much as I love Welbeck if he hasn't made himself undroppable at some point you have to hold him to account too. The only player who hasn't really gotten minutes for some reason is Pogba.
Again though in the case of at least 3 of the players listed (Welbeck, Smalling, Jones) the gametime they did get was often in the "wrong" position.

How can we expect Smalling and jones to have turned into world class CBs when they were playing RB or CM. Likewise Welbeck on the wings, and now we are surprised his finishing isn't all that.
 

mazhar13

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Sir Alex certainly seemed to value proven quality and experience over promise and potential over the past few years in order to win more trophies. It didn't matter to Sir Alex that Ferdinand and Vidic were more prone to errors or slower; he played them as they were more established players. It's one of the reasons he hasn't played Smalling and Jones in central defence more often particularly with each other or Evans. Plus, Smalling and Jones were often needed at right back due to Rafael and Fabio's injury troubles with Jones often used in midfield to play as a destroyer, so these also made it difficult for Smalling and Jones to establish themselves at the back.

The same thing happened with Welbeck when van Persie signed for us. Proven quality and experience over promise and potential. Even when van Persie was off form, Sir Alex persisted with him rather than play Welbeck as van Persie was a proven player.

I think Sir Alex's strong desire to win trophies overcame his desire to go through a transitional period. Even during the 2011/12 season, he became pragmatic after losing 1-6 to Man. City and was close to winning the league title. It seems as if Sir Alex didn't want to go through a transitional period anymore and wanted to bring up players slowly whilst winning trophies. That would certainly have worked if Sir Alex had stayed for several more years, but when Moyes came in, Sir Alex's plans were destroyed.

Now, with van Gaal, we have someone who likes playing young, promising players and giving them the chance to establish themselves in the first team. I'm confident that Smalling, Jones, Wilson, etc., will all be given the chance to establish themselves. I'm disappointed that Welbeck may leave as I thought he could definitely establish himself in Man. Utd., but we'll see whether Welbeck will actually leave or not.
 

NoWinNoFee

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United's youth is overrated, living off the reputation of the class of 92.

Since that time in 22 years we've only had Wes Brown/John O'Shea/Fletcher/Cleverley/Welbeck/Evans who have gone on to represent United for a season or more and that poor list says everything really.

Pogba/Morrison have been the most talented since the class of 92, but both never went on to play for United and losing the likes of Pique/Rossi too shows our academy has failed and we fail to give opportunities to youth.
 

Walrus

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United's youth is overrated, living off the reputation of the class of 92.

Since that time in 22 years we've only had Wes Brown/John O'Shea/Fletcher/Cleverley/Welbeck/Evans who have gone on to represent United for a season or more and that poor list says everything really.

Pogba/Morrison have been the most talented since the class of 92, but both never went on to play for United and losing the likes of Pique/Rossi too shows our academy has failed and we fail to give opportunities to youth.
Do you think this is because the current/recent crops of youngsters havent been good enough, or because they werent given enough first team gametime though?
 

Pogue Mahone

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Out of interest, is there any statistics for how many minutes our youth prospects have played for us over the past few seasons in comparison to other big clubs?

I reckon we'd come out well.
Welbeck and Cleverley have had more than their fair share of chances and as much as I love Welbeck if he hasn't made himself undroppable at some point you have to hold him to account too. The only player who hasn't really gotten minutes for some reason is Pogba.
Don't have them at my fingertips but this has been discussed before. Basically, none of the other clubs even come close.

Yet still you get hundreds of comments on here saying how bad we are at bringing through homegrown talent. Bizarre really.
 

ThaReaper01

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United's youth is overrated, living off the reputation of the class of 92.

Since that time in 22 years we've only had Wes Brown/John O'Shea/Fletcher/Cleverley/Welbeck/Evans who have gone on to represent United for a season or more and that poor list says everything really.

Pogba/Morrison have been the most talented since the class of 92, but both never went on to play for United and losing the likes of Pique/Rossi too shows our academy has failed and we fail to give opportunities to youth.
Gibson and Richardson
 

Decotron

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What a load of crap. Look around the premiership. So many of our lesser lights from previous youth teams are established premiership players. They cant all make it here. I think we punch well above our weight.
 

Walrus

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Don't have them at my fingertips but this has been discussed before. Basically, none of the other clubs even come close.

Yet still you get hundreds of comments on here saying how bad we are at bringing through homegrown talent. Bizarre really.
Again, recently in the cases of Smalling, Jones and Welbeck (and probably more) its not been just a case of "not played" as "played out of position".

Im sure Welbeck had his share of games on the left, and Smalling at RB - but does that really help them become top quality CB/STs?
Look at the examples above and think back five years. Cleverley was regarded as a superior prospect to Henderson (and by some to be on par with Wilshere), Welbeck was regarded higher than Sturridge, Jones/Smalling were two of the hottest defender prospects in the league, now they are nowhere near their respective "rivals".

What a load of crap. Look around the premiership. So many of our lesser lights from previous youth teams are established premiership players. They cant all make it here. I think we punch well above our weight.
A point I made in the original post - it has always pleased me to see ex-united youngsters in practically every game I see. Leicester yesterday had several themselves.
The point I was making is that in recent years, most of our *top* prospects have - for one reason or another - not met expectation, and I think some of the blame for this has to go on the club/managers for not developing them well enough "on the pitch".