Ye but I did clarify that with a bit more detail later in the thread - clearly there will be players in and out this summer.
Season 2 LVG - Objectives and expectations
- Thread starter LazyRed-Ninja
- Start date
Yeah I agree there will certainly be transfer activity and I'm also reasonably confident we'll get the right players.
Expectations? Who can know what our/LVG's expectations can be at this stage, until the transfer window closes and we know the make-up of our squad, its hard to say.
Objectives: Our objectives (again our transfer activity, both in and out will dictate this to an extent) should be a run at the title by playing a system that the squad fully understands and plays well. Hopefully this system and style of play entertains us fans at the same time.
Everything else, and I mean everything: FA Cup, Capital One Cup, Champions League is a bonus.
Yes, we want to get out of our CL group, but that should be a prerequisite for a club of our size and a manager of LVG's stature.
Capital One Cup is simply a chance to play the younger/fringe players to gain experience, and I would like to see this continued next year.
Champions League, once past the group stage, is a knockout competition that requires a good deal of luck, favourable draws and games that fall well in-between our domestic calendar to win.
The FA Cup is a funny one, I can totally understand fans wanting to win it again, and it has been far too long, but if we meet our main objective of having a good run at the title, challenging till the last remaining game weeks, then I couldn't care less about the FA Cup. Being champions of your country is what it is all about. I will put it this way, if we are challenging for the title and a given a tough draw in the FA Cup, say Chelsea/City/Arsenal etc at Wembley in the semi final. Would people want us to play our full strength side knowing we have a key League fixture shortly after? After the couple of years we have had, all I want is to be top dogs again, or at least give the eventual champions a bloody good scare. I'd gladly take someone else lifting the FA Cup if it meant us having the excitement of a close title run in!
Objectives: Our objectives (again our transfer activity, both in and out will dictate this to an extent) should be a run at the title by playing a system that the squad fully understands and plays well. Hopefully this system and style of play entertains us fans at the same time.
Everything else, and I mean everything: FA Cup, Capital One Cup, Champions League is a bonus.
Yes, we want to get out of our CL group, but that should be a prerequisite for a club of our size and a manager of LVG's stature.
Capital One Cup is simply a chance to play the younger/fringe players to gain experience, and I would like to see this continued next year.
Champions League, once past the group stage, is a knockout competition that requires a good deal of luck, favourable draws and games that fall well in-between our domestic calendar to win.
The FA Cup is a funny one, I can totally understand fans wanting to win it again, and it has been far too long, but if we meet our main objective of having a good run at the title, challenging till the last remaining game weeks, then I couldn't care less about the FA Cup. Being champions of your country is what it is all about. I will put it this way, if we are challenging for the title and a given a tough draw in the FA Cup, say Chelsea/City/Arsenal etc at Wembley in the semi final. Would people want us to play our full strength side knowing we have a key League fixture shortly after? After the couple of years we have had, all I want is to be top dogs again, or at least give the eventual champions a bloody good scare. I'd gladly take someone else lifting the FA Cup if it meant us having the excitement of a close title run in!
Hard to say until we see our squad once the window closes but top 4, knockout stages of champions league and winning a cup is about as good as I can see us doing.
If we don't add new players we won't be good enough to do much better than last season but if we do bring in the 3-5 players we need the transition will make it tough to aim much higher but it will be of more be fit long term. I have a feeling LVG won't win much in his time here, I think his best days are behind him and his job will be more about moving the club forward post SAF and laying foundations for his successor rather than winning trophies.
If we don't add new players we won't be good enough to do much better than last season but if we do bring in the 3-5 players we need the transition will make it tough to aim much higher but it will be of more be fit long term. I have a feeling LVG won't win much in his time here, I think his best days are behind him and his job will be more about moving the club forward post SAF and laying foundations for his successor rather than winning trophies.
Yes, definitely.
I see what you're saying but in this situation winning has its own momentum, you have to play every game to win and take them one at a time.
Off topic. But anyway, agree with you on the whole. Only really care about the league. But with every passing year I care about the FA Cup a little more. Would be really nice to win it. But wouldn't make it a primary objective for the manager.
At this point, given that the players and football club have had a whole season to adjust to van Gaal's methods, and given that van Gaal himself has adjusted to the football culture here, I expect us to compete for the title and to at least make it to the QF's in the Champions League. In terms of cup tournaments, I would be happy if we would one either the League or FA Cup or both, but I want to see progress in the Champions League and Premier League. The domestic cups have been quite topsy-turvy recently with the smaller clubs causing a number of upsets in them, so if I see us not win the FA Cup once again, I wouldn't be too gutted about it.
After seeing how closely van Gaal's first season paralleled Bayern's first season, initially, I didn't look forward to the second season. However, given that we were at a better state than Bayern were at that time, things start to look better. Unlike Bayern back then, we have creative players in the middle as well as out wide (as well as having more in numbers). Our defense is also in a better state given that we only have the right back position to really sort out (unlike Bayern who had 1 right back, 3 central defenders with 1 aging and 1 unproven, and 2 left backs). We also have our left wing sorted now with the signing of Memphis. Our goalkeeper issue may surface if we sell de Gea, so that can be a big problem for us especially if van Gaal relies on Valdes to be our #1.
I think the board will expect van Gaal to fight for the title and make it into the knockouts in the Champions League, so anything less could result in tensions developing between them. van Gaal's Bayern was very inconsistent in the second season, and that led to van Gaal getting sacked. For me, though, if I see progress in the way we play, then I may tolerate van Gaal staying on. I want to see us break the opponent's lines more often rather than playing around them. I want to see us rely less on our wingers. I want bit more ruthlessness in our attacks (a bit more Bielsa sprinkled into the structure and organization). I basically don't want us to be exactly like Bayern were in the 2010/11 season.
I have hope for us to improve as we do have a good foundation to build upon. We've shown last season that we can open up defences and take control of matches. We just need to be ruthless and more clinical in front of goal.
After seeing how closely van Gaal's first season paralleled Bayern's first season, initially, I didn't look forward to the second season. However, given that we were at a better state than Bayern were at that time, things start to look better. Unlike Bayern back then, we have creative players in the middle as well as out wide (as well as having more in numbers). Our defense is also in a better state given that we only have the right back position to really sort out (unlike Bayern who had 1 right back, 3 central defenders with 1 aging and 1 unproven, and 2 left backs). We also have our left wing sorted now with the signing of Memphis. Our goalkeeper issue may surface if we sell de Gea, so that can be a big problem for us especially if van Gaal relies on Valdes to be our #1.
I think the board will expect van Gaal to fight for the title and make it into the knockouts in the Champions League, so anything less could result in tensions developing between them. van Gaal's Bayern was very inconsistent in the second season, and that led to van Gaal getting sacked. For me, though, if I see progress in the way we play, then I may tolerate van Gaal staying on. I want to see us break the opponent's lines more often rather than playing around them. I want to see us rely less on our wingers. I want bit more ruthlessness in our attacks (a bit more Bielsa sprinkled into the structure and organization). I basically don't want us to be exactly like Bayern were in the 2010/11 season.
I have hope for us to improve as we do have a good foundation to build upon. We've shown last season that we can open up defences and take control of matches. We just need to be ruthless and more clinical in front of goal.
A trophy, either Carling Cup or FA Cup. A title challenge and QF of UCL, unless we are drawn Barcelona or a team like that in the last 16.
- A title challenge and worse finish being 3rd.
- Champions League expectations is dependent on the draw for me. If we got knocked out in the last 16 by Barcelona I can understand that.
- Exciting football.
- Get Di Maria up and running.
A trophy would be nice, but it's such a tough ask. We've been the best team in England for years under Fergie and haven't managed an FA Cup win since 2004. It doesn't matter how good you are, there's alot of luck involved.
- Champions League expectations is dependent on the draw for me. If we got knocked out in the last 16 by Barcelona I can understand that.
- Exciting football.
- Get Di Maria up and running.
A trophy would be nice, but it's such a tough ask. We've been the best team in England for years under Fergie and haven't managed an FA Cup win since 2004. It doesn't matter how good you are, there's alot of luck involved.
My expectations are:
1 Bring in at least two more impact players and Di Maria becomes an impact player
2 Play attractive football
3 Be solidly in the top 3 from the start and have a slight chance for a title.
4 Make a decent run in the CL
2 is very dependent on 1, 3 and 4 are dependent on 2.
1 Bring in at least two more impact players and Di Maria becomes an impact player
2 Play attractive football
3 Be solidly in the top 3 from the start and have a slight chance for a title.
4 Make a decent run in the CL
2 is very dependent on 1, 3 and 4 are dependent on 2.
Expectations: I don't have many under Van Gaal.
Objectives: IMO, before anything, the main goal should be to play attractive football next season. I would hate another season of football where we simply pass the ball around without creating any chances. I don't want to see football where we pass the ball around aimlessly - at tumescent pace - before hoofing it to the tallest tree on the pitch. I don't want to see neutered players in a regimented system asked to curb their natural attacking instincts.
We need to bring back the excitement and joy associated with Manchester United football. I would want to see the team trying to entertain, pushing forward, taking risks, creating chances, scoring goals, not trying to sit on leads, not settling for draws. Love for us to get back our fear factor.
Objectives: IMO, before anything, the main goal should be to play attractive football next season. I would hate another season of football where we simply pass the ball around without creating any chances. I don't want to see football where we pass the ball around aimlessly - at tumescent pace - before hoofing it to the tallest tree on the pitch. I don't want to see neutered players in a regimented system asked to curb their natural attacking instincts.
We need to bring back the excitement and joy associated with Manchester United football. I would want to see the team trying to entertain, pushing forward, taking risks, creating chances, scoring goals, not trying to sit on leads, not settling for draws. Love for us to get back our fear factor.
Expect to see some better football, with an onus on attack and a greater degree of consistency. Would love to see more entertaining football being played but am not so confident that it will. Fear Lvg's tactics are too rigid and shackle the flair players as well as restrict their influence. Last seasons football can be built on certainly, don't feel that it is enough to simply win games. As above post, bring the fear factor back- take the game to the opposition.
Player recruitment has been pretty poor for a time and can't say the money was so well invested by LVG. Not confident with his player recruitment nor comfortable with monster fees and wages for average footballers. So far Depay comes highly rated and reputable, a need for a player like him. Seen a-lot of him (off season) though online, bit much, maybe cocky and media courting character. Remains to be seen what else happens, hopefully not too many faces. Important to get a settled side asap. Priority to bolster defence and get a goal scorer. It wouldn't happen but some players on the books Hernandez, Nani and Rafael I'd sooner see get a chance ahead of newcomers. The latter in particular, injury prone yes but he has so much of what you'd want in that position. Valencia hasn't been awful, still not natural and clear he is favoured and settled- just seems shoehorning.
Minimum requirements, top four and challenge for the title. A long cup run (FA Cup, love to see every effort for the team to win it) and feel most optimistic with prospects in Europe. Team will perform well, stage suits the manager and the fans will be excited to have it back. United too will be welcomed back, players and teams like playing at OT and teams enjoy to host. Atmosphere of European football will be buzzing, absence does make the heart grow stronger.
Can't quite shake the feeling of LVG not being a good fit for United or direction club is going. Perhaps I am just so unwelcome of change.
Player recruitment has been pretty poor for a time and can't say the money was so well invested by LVG. Not confident with his player recruitment nor comfortable with monster fees and wages for average footballers. So far Depay comes highly rated and reputable, a need for a player like him. Seen a-lot of him (off season) though online, bit much, maybe cocky and media courting character. Remains to be seen what else happens, hopefully not too many faces. Important to get a settled side asap. Priority to bolster defence and get a goal scorer. It wouldn't happen but some players on the books Hernandez, Nani and Rafael I'd sooner see get a chance ahead of newcomers. The latter in particular, injury prone yes but he has so much of what you'd want in that position. Valencia hasn't been awful, still not natural and clear he is favoured and settled- just seems shoehorning.
Minimum requirements, top four and challenge for the title. A long cup run (FA Cup, love to see every effort for the team to win it) and feel most optimistic with prospects in Europe. Team will perform well, stage suits the manager and the fans will be excited to have it back. United too will be welcomed back, players and teams like playing at OT and teams enjoy to host. Atmosphere of European football will be buzzing, absence does make the heart grow stronger.
Can't quite shake the feeling of LVG not being a good fit for United or direction club is going. Perhaps I am just so unwelcome of change.
I'd be fine with no trophies as long as we play better football and put a decent challenge on all fronts.
Give every opponent a run for their money and fight till the end...win or lose...play like heroes...win like heroes...fall like heroes...bring us back the joy of being a United fan. No more frustrating football. Is that too much to ask?
Challenge on all fronts.
Title challenge, reach the knockout stages of cl. Play better football consistently.
- Make it to the Champion's League proper - which we are not as of yet.
- Play a consistent team and formation.
- Give some young players a proper chance
- Get off the damn bench during games
- 3rd or better in the league
- Win FA and/or League Cup
- Make OT not a fortress but, a burial ground for opposition as we massacre them. Put the fear back into teams coming to OT.
3rd or above, consistent lineup, consistent play style, be able to break down opponents away from home + who park the bus, get into the group stage and then depending on group/who we play QF in CL, continue the team spirit we have this year.
80+ points and (at worst) elimination to one of Barca/Real/Munich/Chelsea/PSG/Juve in the knock-out rounds of CL.
Lot of people saying they want us to be in the title race come end of March. Well if we are in that position, I'd be bitterly disappointed if we don't end up winning it, given our fixtures in the run in
A CL 1/4 final place
A real challenge for the league (which should be won at the latest in the last year of his contract)
To bring through 3 or 4 youngsters to the point where they could consistently play at the right level in our first team and replace the aging stars he's about to buy.
A real challenge for the league (which should be won at the latest in the last year of his contract)
To bring through 3 or 4 youngsters to the point where they could consistently play at the right level in our first team and replace the aging stars he's about to buy.
I expect us to still be competing for everything at the end of January - in particular getting through the CL group stage and being close enough to compete in the PL, because in those places luck isn't really a factor. A couple of good cup runs would be nice, winning needs to be a habit.
My personal hope is to actually understand (and better still, believe in) what LvG is doing with the team. I want to understand the team selection and the substitutions, at least in hindsight, if not when they are made. I want to watch every match believing that our tactical master plan stretches beyond passing the ball around aimlessly, whilst hoping to get lucky with the occasional hoof ball upfield.
My personal hope is to actually understand (and better still, believe in) what LvG is doing with the team. I want to understand the team selection and the substitutions, at least in hindsight, if not when they are made. I want to watch every match believing that our tactical master plan stretches beyond passing the ball around aimlessly, whilst hoping to get lucky with the occasional hoof ball upfield.
If the squad is not strengthened to where we need to be at, its going to be another wasteful season and hoping we make the top 4, with a combination of poor performances and trying to get over the line for a top 4 finish
Minimum expectations:
Top 4
Get out of the CL group stage
Play enjoyable football relatively frequently
Develop some exciting youngsters
Reasonable expectations:
Top 3
Win the first knockout CL stage
Play enjoyable football frequently
Develop some exciting youngsters
Win a cup
Top 4
Get out of the CL group stage
Play enjoyable football relatively frequently
Develop some exciting youngsters
Reasonable expectations:
Top 3
Win the first knockout CL stage
Play enjoyable football frequently
Develop some exciting youngsters
Win a cup
I want trophies and I also want him to root the "play to the end" mentality back into the team. Our new players specially need to add that into their DNA.
Going out in the champions league to a good team after a decent performance by us - not really bothered when it happens, 2nd round or quarter finals. Getting to the semi's would be a brilliant performance.
Being in or around the league title at the end of january, just getting top 4 comfortably (a lot more comfortably) would be fine when all's said and done though.
Its hard to say who we'll be competing against, some of arsenal's potential signings sound pretty good for instance. Same with city, if they somehow land pobga they'd be a pretty different proposition.
Chelsea currently have a better, more settled squad of players than us but i think its harder to retain a title than to just win one, im hoping that counts against them next year.
Cup runs ... depends how they're handled. If we put out our first team in every round i'd be annoyed to go out early.
Cups are a bonus really though, it'd be nice and our best chance of silverware next season and a good source of games for the younger players but they're not going to define our season really.
A league cup and finishing 5th after a disastrous champions league would still be a terrible season.
Being in or around the league title at the end of january, just getting top 4 comfortably (a lot more comfortably) would be fine when all's said and done though.
Its hard to say who we'll be competing against, some of arsenal's potential signings sound pretty good for instance. Same with city, if they somehow land pobga they'd be a pretty different proposition.
Chelsea currently have a better, more settled squad of players than us but i think its harder to retain a title than to just win one, im hoping that counts against them next year.
Cup runs ... depends how they're handled. If we put out our first team in every round i'd be annoyed to go out early.
Cups are a bonus really though, it'd be nice and our best chance of silverware next season and a good source of games for the younger players but they're not going to define our season really.
A league cup and finishing 5th after a disastrous champions league would still be a terrible season.
So say we get Ramos and Schneiderlin, and a RB and striker on top of that, LGV I think would have to push Chelsea all the way to the end for the title and probably get to the Quarter final of the Champions League. Finishing around 70 points and scraping into the top 4 wouldn't cut it.
As a fan of LVGv the one thing i would hate is for us to get too cocky too quickly. Anything above 4th for me will be an obvious improvement no matter how marginal. As someone who spends time reading through his tactics on an almost daily basis; I know just how far we are from his ideal team. Take his 3 year contract as a third of the way through.
The reason the guy gets fired is normally because a giant in need of reawakening is suddenly bigger than him and his dictorial style becomes a massive problem. In that sense he is extremely lucky to be in this job relatively soon after a man who also had all the power possible in SAF.
Be patient; i believe the longer we are with Van Gaal the more successful we will be in the Future. Van gaal is not the type to stay longer than necessary.
The reason the guy gets fired is normally because a giant in need of reawakening is suddenly bigger than him and his dictorial style becomes a massive problem. In that sense he is extremely lucky to be in this job relatively soon after a man who also had all the power possible in SAF.
Be patient; i believe the longer we are with Van Gaal the more successful we will be in the Future. Van gaal is not the type to stay longer than necessary.
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a)Hopefully less dwelling on formations from the start will not make us lose points.
b)Much better away form, we have to show a big improvement there and show we have cojones.
These are my hopes and as for my expectations, I have none.
b)Much better away form, we have to show a big improvement there and show we have cojones.
These are my hopes and as for my expectations, I have none.
Top 2 finish (not become 2nd with a 10 pt gap though) in league
QFs or SFs in UCL
A cup will be sweet, but it will not be a benchamrk
Above all, play like champions. Not get overrun in simple matches. Create more chances and score more often. Be clinical in front of goal, not Welbeck mode.
QFs or SFs in UCL
A cup will be sweet, but it will not be a benchamrk
Above all, play like champions. Not get overrun in simple matches. Create more chances and score more often. Be clinical in front of goal, not Welbeck mode.
Progression from last season(title challenge) With a clear defined style of play
Title challenge, QFs of CL and sexy football.
No excuses this year. Better football and silverware:
Objectives:
Expect:
- Challenge for the title
- Make it through to the last 16 of the CL
- Bring in players who can turn a philosophy into something visible
- Significant youth development
Expect:
- To finish 3rd, due mainly to a slow start;
- A good run to the QF in the CL
- To struggle breaking down parked busses again, but less prone to sucker punches.
- The philosophy being taught from the academy through to the reserves
Contending for the title and finishing in the top 3.
A very decent cup run.
Make it out of the CL group.
Make an improvement from the beginning of the season to the end to look like next year we'll be winning something.
A very decent cup run.
Make it out of the CL group.
Make an improvement from the beginning of the season to the end to look like next year we'll be winning something.
Start consistently winning our easier games and more of the same against the top 6. That should get us very close to first place.
Looks like we are getting ahead of ourselves again.. LVG is a poor title winning manager; he us the best at creating an era similair to how SAF built teams for years that would conquer.
Poor title winning manager? Are you taking the piss?
7 league titles is quite the achievement, I wouldn't say it is poor. Averages a title every 3 years, which is including his stints as Dutch international manager. If you count his 17 years as club manager it averages out at just over every 2 seasons.
Not bad, not bad at all.
Title race, top 3 finish, make it out of the group in CL, cup semi final. My expectations for the coming season.
For what it's worth, I was one of the people last season who said a top 4 finish would be satisfactory. If we finish 4th this coming season, I'll be upset.
What do the people who were accusing folks like myself of a 'lack of ambition' last season have to say about expectations this season?
For what it's worth, I was one of the people last season who said a top 4 finish would be satisfactory. If we finish 4th this coming season, I'll be upset.
What do the people who were accusing folks like myself of a 'lack of ambition' last season have to say about expectations this season?