Like I said I looked at it again and I thought it was a bad tackle but in real time it looked a very good tackle.
"That was a great last ditch tackle"
- Thread starter Lynk
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I was absolutely amazed that TV3 came to that conclusion because that's just ridiculous. Also it seems like the skirted over the whole at half time as well, unless they're going to cover it after the break.
"Excessive Force" is the wording in the rule, and it's hard to argue it was anything but. He obviously hasn't gone out to break Luke's leg, but he's just seen the danger and reacted on instinct. It should have been a penalty and a red card.
He's not in control of the tackle, it's a definite penalty and red card. He's obviously not deliberately tried to injure him, but that's really irrelevant.
Those are all just emotions running over. Don't think anyone with a clear head would think like that. It is slightly distasteful but human nature and the urge for 'revenge' is something which has been present for ages.
In fairness, when I seen it first I thought it looked like a great tackle so the commentators clearly thought the same. It's easy to watch the replay and see that wasn't the case.
By the way, as far as I see it, the reason they talk about "got the ball" @Lynk is that lunging at the opponent part. Some leg-breakers are caused by the player 'placing' their studs on the opponents planted leg... (Eduardo injury)
If they get the ball cleanly, they probably havent lunged at the opponent...
If they get the ball cleanly, they probably havent lunged at the opponent...
Referee needs ban as well.
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Did he use excessive force? Seemed like pretty standard force for a last ditch tackle..
Reckless and careless and likely to cause injury
He looked gutted after the tackle. Wasn't a great tackle but clearly wasn't intentional.
It doesn't matter. 1 tackle could cause someone to not recover for their entire career. Everyone is responsible for their tackles.
I think enough force to snap someone's leg in two is clearly far more than you'd need to kick a football.
The thing that pisses me off is that if Shaw jumps up, basically everyone would see and say it was a great last ditch tackle.
But the tackle doesn't change just because Shaw jumps (or not)
But the tackle doesn't change just because Shaw jumps (or not)
If someone plants their leg then it takes basically no force to break it.
Very different injuries, but look at the Eduardo one, I don't think there was much power there (although certainly some, but not much to knock the ball away). Or the Ramsey one. Valencia broke his leg just because of his studs and/or the pitch?
I think a majority would view it as OK, yes. But the minority (who'd be right) would still be saying it was wild/reckless. And then you'd see he get's touch on the ball, and a lot would say that makes it OK.
It's the crux of the entire debate about tackles, innit?
Tricky to judge this particular one as you would if there was no injury when you know Shaw's leg is badly broken. <---- stating the obvious
Exactly and indeed. This type of thing is what I was really talking about here:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/can-you-foul-a-player-without-making-contact.345662/
All the dinasaurs in the game begrudge the death of the sliding tackle, but maybe most sliding tacklea are exactly the same as that one, just without the end result.
In my opinion, they need to make it so that:
A) if you go through your opponent, its automatically a redcard. Even from the side. (So Darren Fletchers red card vs Arsenal was correct). Doesn't matter if you go through before or after getting the ball.
B) if you go in studs up, its a red card.
I think that's where we are going in the game, and I think it's correct.
When I used to play Sunday league, my team mate would do these two footed lunge tackles which everyone thought were amazing (as usually won us possession, looked great, and raised the team up). But there was one player-coach who went mental about them, and kept calling them leg breakers. He was absolutely right looking back.
So he blocked a shot/touch when a player was running through on his goal? I think that's what he's supposed to do...
I've watched it twice, I don't really want to give it another look for obvious reasons, but it might have been aggressive but he's won the ball and it certainly wasn't a ridiculous 2 footed lunge only intent on injuring the player, he was trying to stop Shaw from scoring a goal and he's got very unfortunate.
Human nature? It's a game of football, with people we don't know personally, a game where unfortunate injuries are a normal part of proceedings.. The idea that I'm the strange one for not wanting Moreno buried alive is one I'm not buying, quite simply some of you need to get a grasp of your emotions and start thinking more rationally.
Are you being serious?
Don't think it was intentional but definitely reckless. Should have been a card and a penalty to us surely
It is amazing you think that the people getting hyper over the tackle need to get a grip while you are the one getting all twisted over a few comments from complete strangers on an internet forum!
I'm still beyond angry about the whole thing and it's probably best I just stop talking about the whole issue for now, because my reactions are bordering on the irrational.
I'm as calm as you like. I'm not the one (of many) who are wishing serious harm on a person for making a tackle on a football pitch.
These threads always attract the "I am going to demonstrate my superior mastery of emotions" apologist types.
It's not relevant that it happened to him. Personally, I think it was an overly aggressive challenge and he should have been sent off. He didn't even get booked. We see bookings get given out for nothing but here's the thing. His foul led to the overtime that led to his goal and that's when you know it's not your day.
So its happened to him in the past? Big Woop. Means absolutely nothing. I don't wish the guy illl, but hopefully he has the common decency to apologize for being a thug.
You maybe calm yet are unable to understand that people say things in the heat of the moment. Those are posts. Nothing more. You are acting as if they are going to place a price on his head asap.
Yeah it's a foul and at the very least a booking, but it wasnt deliberate.
I don't care if it was deliberate or not though. To me it's a sending off and a pen and i'm not saying that out of bias. The guy completely took Shaw out. It was excessive force and people can debate what that is - but it takes excessive force to break a leg say.
I understand, but do I think a player suffering an injury in competitive sport is a situation where it's normal to react so irrationally? No, not really.
Funny you should mention this. It is rather often seen how the people who have suffered the most pass on their feeling to others.
Kids spanked probably will spank their kids.
People who have been terrorized, beaten, scared, and in any way affected by something negative tend to respond by letting their feelings take control and seek revenge against others. Also, if anything from the above and more goes unpunished it mentally frees the victim of blame if they are to do it themselves. "We are even"? I have seen it many times.
I don't wish Moreno any physical harm but i 100% want to see a ban, however long. As for the referees, one thing is to miss small things but a 2-legged challenge scissoring and reckless should have been seen. Wouldn't allow these 3 refs to come close to a game anymore. Penalties might be mistakes, handballs but breaking someone's leg...cmon now
It is not a hamstring pull or a even a dislocated shoulder. His leg quite literally broke in half. Some people are able to process such shock better than others. Does not mean that the other half is some sort of neanderthal who are out with their clubs to get the big bad defender. A few harmless posts venting out their frustration and anger is not going to harm anyone.
I understand, but do I think a player suffering an injury in competitive sport is a situation where it's normal to react so irrationally? No, not really.
I take your point that it can be distasteful but there was a reason behind such strong reactions. Losing one of our most primising youngsters to what could be an injury which may derail his career completely is rather sad.