Pre-season friendly Manchester United - Borussia Dortmund

Red Katie said:

My initial comment was more to point out that results in pre-season don't necesseraly mean much. Two years ago we looked good early on then boom, we lost.
And as you say, if he can ditch players not good enough that's a big bonus.

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Under Moyes, preseason was shit, lost to some random Asian pub team, we finished 7th that season. In LvG's first season, we had great preseason, beating the likes of Real Madrid, Roma, won ICC cup, finished 4th in that season highest position post-Fergie. LvG's 2nd season, our preseason tour was above average, finished 5th.

See the pattern ? J/k.
Anyway I do think Mourinho shouldn't take it lightly. The soon he realizes Rojo, Jones, Depay,..are not United quality the better. It was LvG to blame but this team finished 5th because we fecking deserved it.

If Mourinho is tendentially playing what he sees as the best 11 available, I would say Jones, Blind, Lingard and Depay might have lost their places in the pecking order. Mourinho fakes is not upset for losing a friendly, but he can't disguise it: he was fuming inside in the press-conference. But who to play in their positions for the City game?
Also, some players that played all Dortmund game might be given a rest, like Shaw, Herrera and Mata. Bailly might be up for it, he seems a monster physically.

CB: return Blind there, or perhaps start Smalling? Rojo and Jones should be out of the picture, to be honest.
DCM: unless Carrick recovered or Fosu-Mensah (would love to see him there), give McNair a chance to start? Or Pereira? Both not probable against City, though.
RW: awful options, but Januzaj should be given the chance to start (on the left), with Mkhitaryan playing through the middle again (it worked so well, why not build on it?). Depay and Lingard should be dropped and Young sold.
CF: Rashford, obviously.

Android1974 said:

Mourinho fakes is not upset for losing a friendly, but he can't disguise it: he was fuming inside in the press-conference.

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Indeed.
Losing does not help confidence in any way and right now, some of our players (especially attackers who were dire last season), need confidence that they can score goals.
Yesterday, once again, we scored 1 goal in a game...which won't do anybody any good.

The only silver lining is that hopefully, Jose now understands how bad some of our players are, so will remove them from his (first team) plans.

LeftyBlaster said:

Wasn't it Poch's first season there? I might be seriously wrong so please correct me if I am

Also I'm not panicking just yet. I'd rather we lose now and get shaped up for the season than struggle more later.

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last season? 2nd wasnt it

XdanielredX said:

Yeah I know lol was sort of taking the piss, doesn't come across in the text lol

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Ah okay..its hard to tell in here anymore lad

sunama said:

To be fair, after being spanked 4-1, I too would not dare mingle with the fans and offer autographs.
I'd head straight for the showers.

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They still should have acknowledged the fans.

Classical Mechanic said:

They still should have acknowledged the fans.

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Absolutely. These people pay a lot of money to buy kit and go to this one match in a season. OK they're plastics who know sod all about football (apart from Championship Manager that is) but giving them a wave costs nothing.

Android1974 said:

If Mourinho is tendentially playing what he sees as the best 11 available, I would say Jones, Blind, Lingard and Depay might have lost their places in the pecking order. Mourinho fakes is not upset for losing a friendly, but he can't disguise it: he was fuming inside in the press-conference. But who to play in their positions for the City game?
Also, some players that played all Dortmund game might be given a rest, like Shaw, Herrera and Mata. Bailly might be up for it, he seems a monster physically.

CB: return Blind there, or perhaps start Smalling? Rojo and Jones should be out of the picture, to be honest.
DCM: unless Carrick recovered or Fosu-Mensah (would love to see him there), give McNair a chance to start? Or Pereira? Both not probable against City, though.
RW: awful options, but Januzaj should be given the chance to start (on the left), with Mkhitaryan playing through the middle again (it worked so well, why not build on it?). Depay and Lingard should be dropped and Young sold.
CF: Rashford, obviously.

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Mourinho might give these lads another chance. Even he acknowledged that you can't judge them based one game this early in preseason.

Wade3 said:

Mourinho might give these lads another chance. Even he acknowledged that you can't judge them based one game this early in preseason.

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He'll not want to lose against Citeh, that's for certain.

sunama said:

To be fair, after being spanked 4-1, I too would not dare mingle with the fans and offer autographs.
I'd head straight for the showers.

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Don´t get the attitude. Especially after losses you should thank the fans for their support. Letting yourselves be celebrated is easy, taking some time for the fans while feeling dissapointed and tired is the least these people deserve.

One perspective quite a lot people and probably also players don´t see is that for them this might only be a pre season friendly, but for a lot of people in that stadium this will be the only time in their lives that they have the opportunity to see their favourite team live.

In terms of advertisment for the club playing the most popular team on the Asian continent out of the park was pretty much the best case scenario, but I personally hoped for a closer match and was quite dissapointed in the physical shape of a lot of United players. There were quite a few who were pumping like crazy after 25 minutes, which even under the harsh conditions should not happen at this point in the season preparation. The difference in match fitness should not have been that great, but in the end from a marketing perspective we should be probably thankful for the poor preparation for this match.

sunama said:

To be fair, after being spanked 4-1, I too would not dare mingle with the fans and offer autographs.
I'd head straight for the showers.

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Wtf

It's hard to know what to expect from the lads at this stage of the season. They definitely looked under cooked and I was, probably unrealistically, expecting them to be sharper but that's what these games are for I suppose. It's a slow burn to peak for the Community Shield I guess.....does anyone have any insight on the training and if we look to be on track or not?

....should be mingling and signing autographs tho regardless....

ManUchosenbosslvg said:

Don't be daft, give some credit to Dortmund, a mix of their 1st team and back up players beat a mix of our 1st team and back up players, except our starting line up cost nearly €300m.

The "almost full strength" Dortmund side you're talking about will feature
- Reus
- Weigl
- Gotze
- Schurrle
- Guerriero
- Piszczek
- Burki
- Ginter

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Don't wanna be an asshole, so genuine question:
Wouldn't their best setup be something like:
Reus - Kagawa/Gotze - Dembele?
I'd say Schurrle will be a good player for them that would improve the team they fielded, but not a full strength Dortmund side.
Or would I be in the wrong?

Ødegaard said:

Don't wanna be an asshole, so genuine question:
Wouldn't their best setup be something like:
Reus - Kagawa/Gotze - Dembele?
I'd say Schurrle will be a good player for them that would improve the team they fielded, but not a full strength Dortmund side.
Or would I be in the wrong?

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Many would agree, but Tuchel seems to really really rate him and Schürrle's by far best season ever was back at Mainz under Tuchel, so we might be wrong after all. The whole Schürrle transfer is a bit strange, at least that he's Dortmund's record signing now.

Balu said:

Many would agree, but Tuchel seems to really really rate him and Schürrle's by far best season ever was back at Mainz under Tuchel, so we might be wrong after all. The whole Schürrle transfer is a bit strange, at least that he's Dortmund's record signing now.

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Do you think they might shift Reus in the middle then to make space for Schurrle? In reality, Reus will be injured so surely Schurrle will get game-time, but i can't see Reus being dropped when healthy.

The overreaction...it's a pre-season game ffs.

Pre season yep but that said, fitness is one thing, decision making is something thats not reliant on it. It's not like that time was full of players that we strangers. I think there's only a couple of players that I'd consider starters. Honestly still think we need RB and another CB. That centre of defence needs a leader.

Ødegaard said:

Do you think they might shift Reus in the middle then to make space for Schurrle? In reality, Reus will be injured so surely Schurrle will get game-time, but i can't see Reus being dropped when healthy.

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No. Reus will be on the wing. We rotate, we dont got a real "first choice". Schürrle will rotate like all the others. Our squad deph is great now.

For the question of "its only preseason and we just dont were fit and think of the conditions!": BVB arrived a day later in China than United, so normaly they are the ones with jetlagg issues. And we werent "on the top" ,we were and we are in preseason just like you. As a RB there was the 18 years old kid Passlack playing, and we got second keeper on the pitch. In the second half there were a lot of U-19 players playing. Also, for a lot of players it was the first time they play or play together. And lastly ,what a surprise, we played under the same conditions as you, strange that nobody mentioned that argument.

Wilson Litchmore said:

Pre season yep but that said, fitness is one thing, decision making is something thats not reliant on it. It's not like that time was full of players that we strangers. I think there's only a couple of players that I'd consider starters. Honestly still think we need RB and another CB. That centre of defence needs a leader.

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Players decision making and general play of course will become sloppier due to fatigue. They moved to a completely different time zone and played in unfamiliar conditions, which is bound to have an effect on the players. I think sometimes we fail to understand the situation the players are in because it's alien to us, yes they're professionals but they're also human.

Anyway despite this, I wouldn't say we had a particularly strong side out anyway. Something we don't take into consideration as well is what Mourinho could be potentially working on in the friendly; it doesn't necessarily have to be playing to win. For example, we retreated to our own half and forced Dortmund to break us down no matter where they were on the pitch and didn't try and impose ourselves on them at all. It's highly likely that the focus was how well we defend in our own third, which on that performance wasn't good; but the aim is to be prepared for the start of the season, not for the friendlies.

slig said:

No. Reus will be on the wing. We rotate, we dont got a real "first choice". Schürrle will rotate like all the others. Our squad deph is great now.

For the question of "its only preseason and we just dont were fit and think of the conditions!": BVB arrived a day later in China than United, so normaly they are the ones with jetlagg issues. And we werent "on the top" ,we were and we are in preseason just like you. As a RB there was the 18 years old kid Passlack playing, and we got second keeper on the pitch. In the second half there were a lot of U-19 players playing. Also, for a lot of players it was the first time they play or play together. And lastly ,what a surprise, we played under the same conditions as you, strange that nobody mentioned that argument.

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Thanks for the reply.
I never said anything about the game though, did i?
Apart from earlier when i commented that Dortmund was further along in their pre-season and had the better squad for the game, so i expected them to win, no?

Or did you answer someone else I have blocked/who has blocked me at the same time? :P

Ødegaard said:

Thanks for the reply.
I never said anything about the game though, did i?
Apart from earlier when i commented that Dortmund was further along in their pre-season and had the better squad for the game, so i expected them to win, no?

Or did you answer someone else I have blocked/who has blocked me at the same time? :P

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Only the first paragraoh was an answer to your question. The second was just general talking.

Just want to point out: fitness can not be an issue because its not like the BVB has weeks of preseason after them and they faced the same conditions as United. It is just that Mourinho has arrived short time ago, and the players know nothing at this point of taking over (a new coach). Mourinho is experimenting and want to get to know to his squad, the result is secondery at this moment in preparation.

slig said:

Only the first paragraoh was an answer to your question. The second was just general talking.

Just want to point out: fitness can not be an issue because its not like the BVB has weeks of preseason after them and they faced the same conditions as United. It is just that Mourinho has arrived short time ago, and the players know nothing at this point of taking over (a new coach). Mourinho is experimenting and want to get to know to his squad, the result is secondery at this moment in preparation.

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Not just that, our weaknesses in our defensive and midfield department have been shown up by a very good team. Yes, the team needs to learn Mourinho's tactics but some of the errors by our defenders and midfielders were fundamental things which shouldn't happen at this level of football even if most of the players in that back 4 should be backups at the start of the season.

slig said:

Only the first paragraoh was an answer to your question. The second was just general talking.

Just want to point out: fitness can not be an issue because its not like the BVB has weeks of preseason after them and they faced the same conditions as United. It is just that Mourinho has arrived short time ago, and the players know nothing at this point of taking over (a new coach). Mourinho is experimenting and want to get to know to his squad, the result is secondery at this moment in preparation.

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Fitness can be an issue, not having game-time in your feet is extremely different from regular training.
Match-fitness is a lot of it, but another is of course the fact that you guys had a much better team on paper as well. There are, in fairness, likely a lot more behind it, but those two definitely played their part.

Edit to clarify:
In no way do i think it needs excusion that we lost, nor do i think the result matters. You guys played well, we did not. You guys seemed fitter than us and you guys looked better on paper than us. For us we just have to take it as a practice match to get match-fitness up, and that was a great run-out both for our new coach to get some knowledge about the players fitness, see how they play with the instructions he gave them and it gave you guys the same + some confidence. There is nothing more to training matches in my eyes.

Ramshock said:

last season? 2nd wasnt it

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You're right sorry. The last three seasons have been a blur for me

slig said:

Just want to point out: fitness can not be an issue because its not like the BVB has weeks of preseason after them and they faced the same conditions as United.

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How many games (including the MUFC game), have BvB played so far?
MUFC have played 2 so far, including the BvB game.

K2K said:

You are right

But what worries me is that our squad players seem crap.

We need a good squad to complete on all fronts.

So this game shows that we need more than 4 players in .

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I think it'll take a 2-3 seasons to fully rectify that (and fully rectify the first 11 too), as you can't go too crazy in one transfer window. I agree though, our squad and options from the bench have been terrible in recent years.

We've seen that we have some quality youth though, so hopefully some of those continue to step up, and more buying in the future pushes the average players in to squad places which automatically improves it in a sense.

sunama said:

How many games (including the MUFC game), have BvB played so far?
MUFC have played 2 so far, including the BvB game.

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4 Games if i remember correctly: vs Spvgg. Erkenschwick (i think 5th league), 1860 München (2th league), Wuppertaler SV, St. Pauli and then the game vs United. In the first weeks of the preseason and the first game there were nearly only a few players available, cause all the others were still in holiday or something else: our group for training in the begining were this: Weidenfeller, Bonmann, Sokratis, Bender, Ginter, Durm, Passlack, Schmelzer, Rode, Burnic, Castro, Leitner, Hober, Bruun Larsen, Dembélé, Aubameyang. All the others arrived later. So its not like we got long time with the whole squad and could train since weeks. Think our coach dislike this preseason cause there is so less time with only a few players. Cause of he Euro its complicated.

Unbelievable that preseason games are analyzed so much in detail. Not sure if any other fans do the same, otherwise Juventus fans should riot for losing against some Australian team.

parisite said:

Absolutely. These people pay a lot of money to buy kit and go to this one match in a season. OK they're plastics who know sod all about football (apart from Championship Manager that is) but giving them a wave costs nothing.

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What ?

Wilson Litchmore said:

Pre season yep but that said, fitness is one thing, decision making is something thats not reliant on it. It's not like that time was full of players that we strangers. I think there's only a couple of players that I'd consider starters. Honestly still think we need RB and another CB. That centre of defence needs a leader.

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It sort of is, when you're tired, you cannot think and see thing as clearly as when you're in much better shape.

Preseason or not ,Dortmund would have beaten us anyway, they're simply a better team.

ChrisG11 said:

Players decision making and general play of course will become sloppier due to fatigue. They moved to a completely different time zone and played in unfamiliar conditions, which is bound to have an effect on the players. I think sometimes we fail to understand the situation the players are in because it's alien to us, yes they're professionals but they're also human.

Anyway despite this, I wouldn't say we had a particularly strong side out anyway. Something we don't take into consideration as well is what Mourinho could be potentially working on in the friendly; it doesn't necessarily have to be playing to win. For example, we retreated to our own half and forced Dortmund to break us down no matter where they were on the pitch and didn't try and impose ourselves on them at all. It's highly likely that the focus was how well we defend in our own third, which on that performance wasn't good; but the aim is to be prepared for the start of the season, not for the friendlies.

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I'm aware that fatigue impact on people's decision making due to fatigue but I'd expect that as the game went on and not pretty much all of it. What I'd like to see from a Utd side irrespective of who puts on a red shirt is footballers that don't crap themselves soon as someone presses them on the ball. There were far too many of them huffing it. People forget that these players can easily have to be starters due to injuries or suspensions.