Jose saving his skin - yet again.. (Manager v Players blame game)

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endless_wheelies

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For the first time since Inter Jose feels truly backed by the board.

He therefore feels emboldened to issue the toughest acid test to the players - play to my demands, respond positively to my criticism or f*ck off. Now until the end of the season is everyone's trial, anyone who is not strong enough mentally to respond positively to what he's said this week will indeed be sent packing.

He's driven to make us elite enough to overcome Manchester City. Exciting times.
 

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To all those who want Jose out asap.
Let's say we'll get an experienced good manager who is capable to get things right and is worthy of a club size of United.

How much time would you give him until he wins something or you start the manager out campaign?
Or winning isn't important, just nice, attacking football.

Of course both would be great.
 

Fully Fledged

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He didn't wanna sell Lukaku or KDB though to be fair, just as SAF didn't want to lose Pogba to Juventus.
I know.
The original comment was a joke. The next response was also a joke. It might be reasonable to accept that my response was also meant to be satire.

If I was also being fair I would say that not many people would have predicted the vast improvements that KDB has made over the past 4 seasons before he was sold to Wolfsberg.
 

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That's not exactly a logical excuse since We're talking about professional players playing at the highest level who kicks a ball for a living.

So Pogba decided to shoot himself in the foot then? Doing something that could have a negative impact on the club's European campaign just because He doesn't like the manager? What a child if that's true, fortunately I don't think it's true. The players (Pogba included) just can't be bothered to put in a consistent performance and rise to the occasion, some of them have a weak mentality - sulking when things don't go their way, so untypical for United players.

You can keep changing managers and the same things could repeat itself. I don't want United to give the players too much power, look at Chelsea now.
At sides like Real, Barca and Bayern players also have a lot of power.
 

RedFish

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To all those who want Jose out asap.
Let's say we'll get an experienced good manager who is capable to get things right and is worthy of a club size of United.

How much time would you give him until he wins something or you start the manager out campaign?
Or winning isn't important, just nice, attacking football.

Of course both would be great.
Our fans don't know how lucky they are. (Shields himself from incoming.....)
 

Garethw

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The worry for me is that Sanchez came in, and looked ok for the first few games, and has steadily gotten worse and worse for us.

Likewise, we started the season playing some good stuff, but performances have steadily gotten worse over the season.

Two thirds of our squad just look fed up when they play now. We are a very long way from early season Jose and his "let the horses run" comments.
It’s almost the mirror image of what happened at Chelsea. Players started looking disinterested before the shit hit the fan.

Part of me is wondering whether he’s had enough and is looking to get sacked. Why else would you throw not only your whole squad under the bus, but also go on a bizarre rant about how Manchester United are serial losers in Europe?

Alarm bells should have been ringing the moment that he decided to live out of a hotel rather than buy a house in the area.
 

Ramshock

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I honestly can't believe that we have the most gullible fans on the planet it seems.

So now we're meant to believe that mister Mourinho the paragon of attacking virtue has been teaching them attacking football all week and the players aren't buying it?

What about the rest of the season when they were following your instructions to a tee, no hint of any disharmony and the football was still shockingly poor.

I think we all know the squad in terms of quality and mentality isn't quite perfect but mate you brought Pogba and Mkhi and Lindelof - probably the three biggest fannies at the club right now as well as splurging on Sanchez who isn't mentally looking like iron man either under your management.

So we are meant to sell everything and trust you of all people to rebuild it?

The players look depressed under his management. He has sucked out the joy in their game. Shaw and Martial are a classic case in point of Mourinho bullying young players who even when they try - he'll paint a false narrative of how they play and fans buy it hook line and sinker time and time again. Martial was one of the few attacking players who was trying to be enterprising and yes he was rusty but being shoved around and benched after coming into great form will do that to a young player and mess with their head.

Shaw who admittedly is a fat blob, was being praised for training hard again - comes back into side and then gets dropped for no reason only to get picked yesterday - was decent and nowhere near as bad as some - and Jose makes it out like he's had a Moreno .. classic Jose hatchet job against a player he's had an agenda against since his Chelsea days. FWIW Shaw criticism by lots of managers so why not let him go - why hold on to him just so you can bully him for sport.

Give these guys a new manager with half the narcissism, an attacking methodology and I swear to you.. half the team if not more will respond to it and performances will pick up. They don't want to play for him - simple as that and successful teams before us have also done the same. They rejected him. Imagine Madrid fans backing Jose over what eventually become multiple Champions league winning squad. Not saying we're that good but this squad has enough quality to possibly win a league and at least play helluva lot more entertaining than what we've been subjected to under him.

Players are not blameless here but for me the buck stays with the manager. He's desperately trying to save his reputation and his ego can't take recent criticism of his management and he's trying to pin it all on a very mentally flawed squad. Yes we have some childish players but are they the sort of lads who come across like egotistical cnuts who would refuse to put in a graft under any manager? They have never cared about the club? Not really they just seem your average young lads who want to play good football, enjoy themselves and someone like Klopp would have them eating out of his hand. They don't want to be associated with this football and his weird and ad hoc selection policies must drive them mad.

Mourinho has to go first and foremost before we also bin some of the players. Right decision for all parties. He's toxic and all that cringeworthy schmoozing he was doing on the touch line yesterday doesn't hide the fact that this is no longer a manager you trust with clubs who are expected to play more proactive football and with younger players because his ego takes precedence over their development.
Sigh.....

Its hardly saving his skin when it hasnt worked before is it?

We needed more Jose out threads really!
 

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To all those who want Jose out asap.
Let's say we'll get an experienced good manager who is capable to get things right and is worthy of a club size of United.

How much time would you give him until he wins something or you start the manager out campaign?
Or winning isn't important, just nice, attacking football.

Of course both would be great.
Manchester United are in modern Football now. At any club you are lucky to get 3 seasons. Enrique won 6 trophies in 3 seasons with Barca lost his job, Ancelotti wins the Bundesliga by miles his first season with Bayern lasts only a few weeks into his second season. Wenger is going to be the last manager we see get 20 years at a top club.
 

tenpoless

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At sides like Real, Barca and Bayern players also have a lot of power.
True, but the difference is those clubs are full of class players, They're world beaters.
I don't want average, mentally weak players controlling how the things should be in our club.
 

R'hllor

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People pointing out at issue of the WAY how we got knocked out vs Sevilla and whole segment after in post match interviews and press conferences, the bullshit he sprayed all over the place (Trump style), made up stuff, throwing everything and everyone under the double decker and even regarding things he is right, still it has feck all to do with Sevilla game.

Out of all of that, followers come out calling them moaners, how they cant handle to NOT WIN every single game etc. I mean, how you pulling that out with straight face!?
 

Raees

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To all those who want Jose out asap.
Let's say we'll get an experienced good manager who is capable to get things right and is worthy of a club size of United.

How much time would you give him until he wins something or you start the manager out campaign?
Or winning isn't important, just nice, attacking football.

Of course both would be great.
First two seasons, show that he has improved the quality of the football and fans are all on board with the vision being presented and players look happy. Third season win or be serious challenger for silverware (till end of season).

Not being bored shitless would be a good first step.
 

The Irish Connection

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I agree with you that some of his own signings are letting him down. But the way Pogba is playing isn't on anyone but himself IMV. He's playing at 50% which is unacceptable at any level of football, no matter if you've got a problem with your manager or not, it is totally unprofessional and a sad state of affairs given his immense talent. Sanchez is suffering from what most other January purchases go through. In hindsight I question the move, especially the length and size of the contract, but I was suckered in at the time like most people. He'll improve no doubt and he's not one of those players who hides, but he's not being effective at all. Hopefully that will change sharpish. Matic isn't flawless, but he's playing every game and been solid and a great purchase. Lukaku is playing for the team and the manager, no question. This team is quite obviously better than the team under Moyes and better than the team under LVG, but you'd rightly say that he's been given money to improve it which he has. Where we differ is what was needed and is still needed.

Not sure that you can isolate the previous years when evaluating Mourinho's United. Granted, he's bought 2 defenders, 2 midfielders and 2 attackers (Lindelof, Bailly, Matic, Pogba, Sanchez/Mkhi, Lukaku - with Zlatan on a free not really playing any part this season). The prices have obviously gone up in the market, so it's not comparable (at least last summer) with previous years. This side still lacks width, in defense and in attack.

I'm curious, which players would you get rid of as soon as the season is finished?
Well said, totally agree.

Matic, Bailly and Lukaku have been our best signings in years. Pogba has shown that he can be very good. And I have seen enough of Sanchez with us to suggest that he will at least be an improvement on mkhitaryan and a useful, hard worker.
We clearly, clearly need better full backs. They are so important in the modern game. Mourinho should be properly judged after he signs at least a left back. We've needed a left back for years and to be honest I was shocked when I knew we weren't in for mendy.
I actually agree with 90% of what Jose has said in the last few interviews and we should get behind the team and him to try to galvanise the club when everyone else is finding it easy to criticise us and destabilise us.

Yes, we can improve. Yes, Sevilla was crap and half the managers fault but we have definitely improved compared to under moyes and van gaal. We're 2nd in the league, ahead of the amaaaazing Liverpool and Spurs and the reigning champions, so we must be doing something right, which we are in patches.

3 or 4 players in and the same out and if we're not within touching distance of 1st spot in the league next year then I will criticise the manager more.

And also, the whole argument 'we've spent half a billion in the last 2 years' or whatever is unfair because players prices are double what they were before that now. City have spent more than us and had a better squad than us when pep came along.
 

Oldyella

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For the first time since Inter Jose feels truly backed by the board.

He therefore feels emboldened to issue the toughest acid test to the players - play to my demands, respond positively to my criticism or f*ck off. Now until the end of the season is everyone's trial, anyone who is not strong enough mentally to respond positively to what he's said this week will indeed be sent packing.

He's driven to make us elite enough to overcome Manchester City. Exciting times.
Until the games start.
 

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First two seasons, show that he has improved the quality of the football and fans are all on board with the vision being presented and players look happy. Third season win or be serious challenger for silverware (till end of season).

Not being bored shitless would be a good first step.
Fair enough.
So Jose doesn't get a 3rd cause of bad football but the new one can afford to only challenge in the 3rd if he plays nice football?
 

Raees

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Sigh.....

Its hardly saving his skin when it hasnt worked before is it?

We needed more Jose out threads really!
Saving his skin in terms of still making him a viable project to take on for his next club. If he can blame it on United lack of winning culture or spoilt players.. He is an attractive proposition. If he is seen to do an awful job with willing players- his reputation tanks and no new job at the level he wants.
 

RedFish

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As shit a team we have, we're 2nd in the league. So we play negative, boring football, but pretty football a la dippers or Spurs gets you feck all it seems. Our target is the PL title and with it will come success in the CL (relative success). Patience is required, but getting that is like sucking blood from stone (or something).
 

whatwha

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@Bastian to still be blaming Moyes and Van Gaal for our ills two years into a regime which has spent nearly half a billion pound is a cowards way out.

What makes it worse is that his own signings are letting him down the most.. the two worst performers are Pogba and Sanchez, the former who looks depressed under his management.
So let's look at those first before we start blaming past purchases especially when one of his favourites is the out of depth Fellaini who he has been begging to stay - so much for being trusted to conduct a clear out of previously poor signings.

Our start was vastly overblown - it was recognised by many that we were benefiting from some very flattering score lines which masked how fortunate we were in certain games where we lacked cohesion and were stumbling upon individual moments. Nevertheless points were rolling in and no one minded too much until Anfield where it was the first exposure of how something wasn't quite right from a tactical perspective and the first proper insight into Mourinhos lack of footballing identity.

Since the game, we've flitted in and out of games, resolutely picking up points with a lot of luck thrown in and the odd game where we have played well. Funnily enough whenever we have had a excellent performance (Arsenal, Everton and Liverpool) - it's been the manager whose then gone on to change the system or personnel, only for us to then lose the momentum garnered from that win.

If I had full control I'd bin him right away. I'd then draw up a list of players who also need to follow him and the sort of players who would desert any manager and just aren't up to it. They would go too in the summer early doors.

Obviously then appoint a new manager but attacking methodology would be the first thing I look for and Champions league experience. That would be the prerequisite.
Good post!
 

Di Maria's angel

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First two seasons, show that he has improved the quality of the football and fans are all on board with the vision being presented and players look happy. Third season win or be serious challenger for silverware (till end of season).

Not being bored shitless would be a good first step.
The likeliest scenario where Jose is sacked is another year or more of transition. We might struggle for results and you lot will be out in force to have the manager sacked cause Manchester United should not be behind the likes of Spurs or Liverpool.
 

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Manchester United are in modern Football now. At any club you are lucky to get 3 seasons. Enrique won 6 trophies in 3 seasons with Barca lost his job, Ancelotti wins the Bundesliga by miles his first season with Bayern lasts only a few weeks into his second season. Wenger is going to be the last manager we see get 20 years at a top club.
So 3 seasons then?
 

whatwha

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As shit a team we have, we're 2nd in the league. So we play negative, boring football, but pretty football a la dippers or Spurs gets you feck all it seems. Our target is the PL title and with it will come success in the CL (relative success). Patience is required, but getting that is like sucking blood from stone (or something).
You're implying that being 2nd is thanks to negative football...
 

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@Raees what if football is good and you can sort of see the project but results are bad, let's say we're fighting for top 4 at best. You still wait for the new manager to come to the 3rd year?
 

Newton

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It’s almost the mirror image of what happened at Chelsea. Players started looking disinterested before the shit hit the fan.

Part of me is wondering whether he’s had enough and is looking to get sacked. Why else would you throw not only your whole squad under the bus, but also go on a bizarre rant about how Manchester United are serial losers in Europe?

Alarm bells should have been ringing the moment that he decided to live out of a hotel rather than buy a house in the area.
Going to have to call this out. Such a bullshit stick to beat him with. He lives alone as his wife doesn’t want to leave London and his son is studying. Why would he buy a house alone? Have you ever been in one of the suites in the Lowry, because they aren’t exactly a budget hotel room?

There’s lots of things to have a go at Jose for I’m sure, but that isn’t one of them, it makes no difference where he chooses to live, absolutely none.
 

tenpoless

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As shit a team we have, we're 2nd in the league. So we play negative, boring football, but pretty football a la dippers or Spurs gets you feck all it seems. Our target is the PL title and with it will come success in the CL (relative success). Patience is required, but getting that is like sucking blood from stone (or something).
No patience is required, We're all experts and We know better. Football heritage is just a myth. Jose is just a myth. :wenger: In fact this Jose is a clone of his former-self that happens to be imperfect and only has about 50% of managerial skills of the previous Jose.
 

whatwha

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People pointing out at issue of the WAY how we got knocked out vs Sevilla and whole segment after in post match interviews and press conferences, the bullshit he sprayed all over the place (Trump style), made up stuff, throwing everything and everyone under the double decker and even regarding things he is right, still it has feck all to do with Sevilla game.

Out of all of that, followers come out calling them moaners, how they cant handle to NOT WIN every single game etc. I mean, how you pulling that out with straight face!?
They need a strawman they can beat, I guess.
 

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You're implying that being 2nd is thanks to negative football...
Or maybe Mou just knows the limitations of his team and is setting his team out accordingly with results trumping style. Ok, so there have and will be hiccups along the way but already his record with us in terms of trophies won, surely deserves more belief in his methods. He doesn't get the respect he deserves, but this being the Premier League, that's to be expected haha.
 

Keeps It tidy

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Or maybe Mou just knows the limitations of his team and is setting his team out accordingly with results trumping style. Ok, so there have and will be hiccups along the way but already his record with us in terms of trophies won, surely deserves more belief in his methods. He doesn't get the respect he deserves, but this being the Premier League, that's to be expected haha.
The fact that we won those trophies and our record in the league might mean that the players might not be the spineless cowards Mourinho makes them out to be.
 

Ramshock

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Saving his skin in terms of still making him a viable project to take on for his next club. If he can blame it on United lack of winning culture or spoilt players.. He is an attractive proposition. If he is seen to do an awful job with willing players- his reputation tanks and no new job at the level he wants.
What exactly do you want Raees? I know he has his problems but we are progressing since Moyes and LVG. Are we going to want a new manager every 2 seasons? Why cant you lot understand that City have been phenomenal this season and any other year we would still be in a title race? Jose has his flaws he really does but we are making progress.
 

Ralph1386

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He's always been all about self preservation. That is why I've always been amazed when some here say he spouts the shit he does to take the focus away from the players and onto himself.

Anyways, I don't understand his end game here. He is smart enough to know that if he falls out with half the team, he will be the one that gets the boot. No club can afford to replace half the team. Surely he's not stupid enough to think this is some unique scenario? The smart man that he is, he knows that he's done it before and got sacked. So which club does he think he's off to?
He just signed a new contract. Probably wants to get himself fired and collect his paycheck.
 
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I really do not agree with the premise of this thread (as well as many other posts with the same premise,
For the first time since Inter Jose feels truly backed by the board.

He therefore feels emboldened to issue the toughest acid test to the players - play to my demands, respond positively to my criticism or f*ck off. Now until the end of the season is everyone's trial, anyone who is not strong enough mentally to respond positively to what he's said this week will indeed be sent packing.

He's driven to make us elite enough to overcome Manchester City. Exciting times.
This,

I don't agree with the premise of this thread, (and to be fair many other comments on the forum, outside of this thread). He is always at relative risk of being fired by the board, or permanently damaging his reputation. Ie his 'skin' is always on the line, irrespective of what he says.

His role is to try to motivate the players to play as asked, that may involve defending them and then giving instructions behind closed doors, as after the Sevilla game, or having a public go at them publically, as he did after this match. Basically, he has to try to form and motivate the players by any means at his disposal.

I could see that there is scope to argue that he is not motivating the players effectively, but not that he is trying to save his skin.

After the match, he gave a fairly realistic and positive example of how to follow his training/instructions with Mctominay. By saying that he had a bad performance but was a real Manchester United player, he was basically saying that a one-off performance may vary, but that doing the things that are asked of him in training he did his role.

Imagine if for example, Pogba did as he was asked, (irrespective of whether he did not like the role assigned to him and asked his agent for a transfer).
 

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Another pointless thread to vilify the Man Utd manager while pushing anti-Mourinho agenda (or pro-Guardiola ones). Arguments are also roundabout and nothing that has not been debated countless times before. Arguing on the internet is like winning the special olympics and so on and so forth.

No manager will make it here when the fanbase is full of people thinking that 1 year is enough to produce Barca 2011 with this mess of a squad and mismanagement since SAF left. The whole club, board, manager, and players, need to step it up (IMO the players especially) and make changes over the rest of the season and pre-season 2018/19. We all realize that and hopefully they do too. Best not to forget that you're Man Utd supporters and not Mourinho-haters (or lovers) when you sit down and click that Post Reply button.

People chomping at the bit to point out every supposed misstep of Mourinho are just as bad as those blindly saying all is good. And honestly, these sort of threads only attract those very two extremes, reducing any semblance of discussion to more dick-waving and whinging than anything. Honestly, every thread, even ones about players devolve into this crap.

Get a grip people. We have no God-given right to win or play scintillating football. We work with what we have and improve what we have. So far, the past 2 years have been an upward trend in general and I'd wait till things are clearly going downhill (ala Moyes) before wanting everyone from the manager and the players out. You'll never build anything if you keep pulling the walls down every 2 years. (But can we pretty please buy some new fullbacks, thanks)
 

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For the first time since Inter Jose feels truly backed by the board.

He therefore feels emboldened to issue the toughest acid test to the players - play to my demands, respond positively to my criticism or f*ck off. Now until the end of the season is everyone's trial, anyone who is not strong enough mentally to respond positively to what he's said this week will indeed be sent packing.

He's driven to make us elite enough to overcome Manchester City. Exciting times.
He certainly is and has my backing, but he should first stop making stupid selection mistakes like Sevilla, play Martial consistently on the left and manage Pogba better. Otherwise, I generally agree with the points he made.
 

ArmchairCritic

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The big thing for me over these last two months or so has been the performances (or lack of) of Sanchez. He's come from an incompetent Arsenal team where he had clearly mentally checked out and he's looked half the player here that was there just this season, never mind what he was producing prior. Sanchez is well regarded for his work-rate but he seemingly looks lost in a United shirt with little idea where he should be or where his teammates will be.

Every time we buy a player they look competent for a few games before playing several levels below what we thought we were buying. For me this is a clear sign of players being badly coached. Throwing more money at it will not change anything.
 
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