Any quotes from the Everton or United boards in there about fees?
‘Service’ for strikers
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
ti vu
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When you mentioned Ronaldo, Cavani (remember Cavani's role for Zlatan), there is a partner who make run to draw defenders away. This partner score less goal, not exactly always the creator of the goal but help the main scorer.Said this before but good service is directly linked to good movement. That's why strikers like Cristiano or Cavani get so many chances. It's not that their teams are made up of amazing creators who consistently put them in front of goal, they give their teammates more and better chances to put them in front of goal. And many times they can turn "normal" balls into the box into great service
About Lukaku, i also said before that i think his biggest problem is that he's too heavy, and that has a negative impact on his short-term stamina - he needs a bit too long to recover from high intensity actions and that impacts his ability to remain present and active within an attacking play
Throw in the fact he's a selfless player who does quite a bit of tracking back, pressing and movemente for his teammates and that's the main reason why he's scored 27 goals instead of 37.
Frankly, i wasn't fully convinced of him for a big team before this season, but now i think he's worth every penny you spent on him. With a more dominant team behind that could play more for him and ask him to play less for the team and more for himself he'd easily score 35/40+ goals a season.
Should work with a fitness specialist to lose 10 kgs while keeping his strength in the summer, and see if it improves his stamina and recovery. The guy working with NBA big men these days could do well for him
Over the course of the season, we faced 2 problems. Chance creation especially when Pogba out injury and lost form. Then the supporting movement where everyone making the main man run. There is a reason, Lingard who ain't exactly top player for most part is a vital cog of the machine for us than so called more talent on ball players. It's balance of the team.
Cavani still this moment can be wasteful with normal service, while us is struggling most of the time to create these normal chances to begin with. There is a reason (a bit OTT) people is pissed about Smalling and our FBs for struggling to play out the back, less alone create chances. Same reason people was pissed with Pogba off form where he decided he wouldn't help the back just casually move up the pitch and let them mess up themselves and got countered with Pogba out of he picture.
Seriously? This is your response? Not only did I have to do your googling for you, you expect me to read through all the articles too?Any quotes from the Everton or United boards in there about fees?
Tranfer stories don't usually have direct quotes from anyone. If you are going to believe anything about transfers in the media, you have to believe the ones about £75+15m for Lukaku too.
Ramshock
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YesSeriously? This is your response? Not only did I have to do your googling for you, you expect me to read through all the articles too?
Tranfer stories don't usually have direct quotes from anyone. If you are going to believe anything about transfers in the media, you have to believe the ones about £75+15m for Lukaku too.
Charles Miller
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In the past majority of teams would play with two or just one striker up front, so the 9 would have space to operate as a wide striker, to dribble and create chances, like Ronaldo Nazario. Today the 9 will play majority of the time in the center relying a lot in the service of his teammates.
I think this is still repetition. He question is ‘what is service’? I think ‘service’ means different things for different strikers. Some require the ball in the box where they can score with one-touch, others are a goal threat from anywhere within 20 yards. Naturally, the latter has more advantages and is easier for his teammates to put him in threatening positions more often.In the past majority of teams would play with two or just one striker up front, so the 9 would have space to operate as a wide striker, to dribble and create chances, like Ronaldo Nazario. Today the 9 will play majority of the time in the center relying a lot in the service of his teammates.
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I think to get the most out of Lukaku we need to play with 2 upfront. Lukaku needs that service and its to easy for the oppositions to mark him out of a game, since he cant really do anything on his own with no players in support.
Him and Martial have had some good moments together playing in a partnership where Martial would look for Lukaku and try to feed him, right now i feel he doesn't have that resulting in him having many games where his work rate is the biggest positive.
Him and Martial have had some good moments together playing in a partnership where Martial would look for Lukaku and try to feed him, right now i feel he doesn't have that resulting in him having many games where his work rate is the biggest positive.
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Yea that’s true, I forgot his chemistry with Martial. That said, I can’t see why he couldn’t connect with Sanchez similarly.I think to get the most out of Lukaku we need to play with 2 upfront. Lukaku needs that service and its to easy for the oppositions to mark him out of a game, since he cant really do anything on his own with no players in support.
Him and Martial have had some good moments together playing in a partnership where Martial would look for Lukaku and try to feed him, right now i feel he doesn't have that resulting in him having many games where his work rate is the biggest positive.
Fully agree. The way we play imo it is even more crucial for a striker to be able to play himself into the positions with the ball and score without much assistance from the others. Jose himself only won the league here with forwards like that at his rank (Drogba and Costa).This is a very subjective area of football. For years I have regularly heard mitigation for strikers, even at some of the very best teams, not delivering enough goals due to a ‘lack of service’. It has been said of our own £75m (or £90m depending on what you believe) striker this season a number of times.
What is ‘service’? - ‘The repeated delivery of the ball, unopposed, in front of the opponents goal?’ I think strikers, especially expensive ones at top teams, need to do better than this.
I remember growing up watching the PL in the 90s and early 00s and regularly hearing ‘experts’ saying ‘strikers will get 5-8 every season in the 6 yard box’. It seems now, to use a name, say Lukaku is expecting to get 30 there. Football doesn’t work like that. I think with ‘service’, I could get 10 PL goals a season myself.
I must say this is largely inspired by watching Lukaku, but is certainly a wider topic. Chicharito was also discussed similarly. But with Lukaku, he is hard to criticise logically, as he has a great attitude, and typically does what he’s ‘supposed’ to do. The areas where he falls short for me is the ability to do anything he perhaps is not expected to do. When Pogba put him through in the second half yesterday and he got a weak shot on target, that probably wouldn’t count as the creation of a ‘chance’. But to me, it should have been for a top striker. I have thought over the course of the whole season that Lukaku doesn’t have enough shots on target. Perhaps he just isn’t good enough to have enough shots, and largely will get the shots on target that are obvious, which generally won’t happen often enough.
Basically, a top striker cannot be using a lack of service as an excuse if they play for a top 6 team.
Good post, he always switches off after making his first run, probably as you say due to demands of his body but that simply shouldn’t be acceptable, I really hope our fitness staff would have identified this for the summer but I doubt.Said this before but good service is directly linked to good movement. That's why strikers like Cristiano or Cavani get so many chances. It's not that their teams are made up of amazing creators who consistently put them in front of goal, they give their teammates more and better chances to put them in front of goal. And many times they can turn "normal" balls into the box into great service
About Lukaku, i also said before that i think his biggest problem is that he's too heavy, and that has a negative impact on his short-term stamina - he needs a bit too long to recover from high intensity actions and that impacts his ability to remain present and active within an attacking play
Throw in the fact he's a selfless player who does quite a bit of tracking back, pressing and movemente for his teammates and that's the main reason why he's scored 27 goals instead of 37.
Frankly, i wasn't fully convinced of him for a big team before this season, but now i think he's worth every penny you spent on him. With a more dominant team behind that could play more for him and ask him to play less for the team and more for himself he'd easily score 35/40+ goals a season.
Should work with a fitness specialist to lose 10 kgs while keeping his strength in the summer, and see if it improves his stamina and recovery. The guy working with NBA big men these days could do well for him
adexkola
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It would be nice if Lukaku was able to improve his efficiency and get more out of less, but I think there's a much greater upside for the team if the primary emphasis was on improving the ability of our attack to generate quality chances for our forwards.We create significantly less chances than the rest of the top 6 so it's probably no coincidence that the top scoring strikers are Salah, Kane and Aguero.
The question is whether Lukaku is hindering the number of chances created either by his involvement in the build up play or getting in the right position to get a chance on goal. It's difficult to answer but i'm not convinced that just putting Aguero up front for us instead would dramatically increase our goal tally.
This article was interesting (if you don't like 'expected goals' statistics don't click)
https://www.theringer.com/2018/1/12...er-city-goal-scoring-expected-finishing-skill
VorZakone
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Put Lukaku on RW and he'll be more useful. I'm not even kidding. There's a Mertens-esque transformation waiting to happen there, but instead of wide forward > CF it'll be CF > wide forward. Everytime I've seen Lukaku cutting in from right wing, he's been very threatening.
Yeah, it's a shame really. It still could have worked if there was some rotation for the role, but that hasn't been the case.This is/was my thinking about his purchase too. I understand it though, we were desperate for a striker in a poor market for strikers. Lukaku and Morata both had their flaws, and I think neither were outstanding candidates, but we’re all that was there, once Mbappé wasn’t an option. All things considered, we got the right one I think, but my fear at the time was that given age and cost, Lukaku would have to be our striker for years and he’s ultimately likely to fall short of being a very top forward.
I think we were caught in an awkward place last summer. A gap needed to be bridged between Zlatan and Rashford. By all accounts, we were not after a CF at all before Zlatan did his cruciate, with Griezmann being the main target and Rashford/Martial being the succession plan for Zlatan. The injury was terrible for us as Rashford wasn’t cooked yet, and ideally, we would have continued with Zlatan and let Rash or Martial cook a bit longer. Both players have far greater potential than Lukaku, but due to timing and sequence of events, we are less likely to now see one of them make it as a top CF, not here anyway.
Yeah, I feel like Lukaku's guilty of waiting for the ball to come to him at times when attacking, which can make the service look even worse. Especially when the ball is in the air. It's probably to do with his poor judgement of aerial balls, as I rarely ever see him try to adjust to the ball's trajectory. Adding that extra determination to make every ball his would go a long way.Lukaku scored quite a bit of "solo" goals at Everton though. I agree his all around game isn't as good as Lewandowski's or Higuain's or Kane's, but it's not much lesser than Cavani's for example. The real issue is that Cavani is more active within his team's attacking plays throughout the game. Lukaku's issue is that he doesn't get on the end of enough chances. By which i mean he doesn't attack the ball/space enough. It's not a matter of poor movement because his movement is good, he just doesn't move enough, doesn't make enough runs
I don't think Firmino would score more if he were their main scorer. The whole reason he's not their main scorer is because he's not good enough at it
Really? I'm just using the logic here of more chances=more goals. If he was the main man in the same team, with someone else doing his role of facilitating the other attackers, I don't understand how he'd score less goals than he would as a support player. I'm not saying it would be best for the team, but individually in a similar level attack, his stats would improve.
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As i said, he looks lazy, but i don't think he is. It's an issue of conditioning imho. With his body type i'm not sure he could ever become a Cavani/Suarez(hyperactive), but he needs to get himself into position to shoot more than twice per game. Has to increase his energy levelsYeah, it's a shame really. It still could have worked if there was some rotation for the role, but that hasn't been the case.
Yeah, I feel like Lukaku's guilty of waiting for the ball to come to him at times when attacking, which can make the service look even worse. Especially when the ball is in the air. It's probably to do with his poor judgement of aerial balls, as I rarely ever see him try to adjust to the ball's trajectory. Adding that extra determination to make every ball his would go a long way.
Though some of that is indeed down to the way United attacks
Salah isn't getting fed tap ins, he works for his goals. Firmino simply wouldn't put himself into the right positions to score that many goals. That's not his game.Really? I'm just using the logic here of more chances=more goals. If he was the main man in the same team, with someone else doing his role of facilitating the other attackers, I don't understand how he'd score less goals than he would as a support player. I'm not saying it would be best for the team, but individually in a similar level attack, his stats would improve.
This is it. Lukaku has way too few attempts on goal, two per game seems about right. Rashford has far more, regardless of position, because that’s how he plays. I don’t think it’s all the rest of the team’s fault. Replace Lukaku with CR7 in this same United team, the first difference is that he will have far more shots on goal, Work the keeper more often which will of course result in more goals. He will work the keeper from ‘nothing’ from 20 yards with a quick snap shot, from either foot, he will be getting shots off from various angles, first time shots, shifting the ball a yard and shooting etc. Lukaku doesn’t do this nearly as much. I’m not talking about chance creation here. Anywhere within 20 yards Lukaku should be looking to test the keeper for me if possible. He works the keeper too little, when he tries shots from the edge they are blocked, because he needs to do better to create the space.As i said, he looks lazy, but i don't think he is. It's an issue of conditioning imho. With his body type i'm not sure he could ever become a Cavani/Suarez(hyperactive), but he needs to get himself into position to shoot more than twice per game. Has to increase his energy levels
Though some of that is indeed down to the way United attacks
Salah isn't getting fed tap ins, he works for his goals. Firmino simply wouldn't put himself into the right positions to score that many goals. That's not his game.
Yeah, agreed. Getting himself into the position to shoot more is precisely the kind of thing that happens when strikers have that extra ability that I was talking about.As i said, he looks lazy, but i don't think he is. It's an issue of conditioning imho. With his body type i'm not sure he could ever become a Cavani/Suarez(hyperactive), but he needs to get himself into position to shoot more than twice per game. Has to increase his energy levels
Though some of that is indeed down to the way United attacks
I'm not saying he'd be banging in goals like Salah or that he'd score in the same way. Just that, in an attack of similar level geared around getting the most out of him instead of Salah, his stats would surely improve compared to his stats as more of a support player. Regarding the bolded, that didn't stop him this season from scoring a fairly good number this season, so I doubt it would become an issue because a team tries to get more from him. Think we've slightly drifted off-topic though.Salah isn't getting fed tap ins, he works for his goals. Firmino simply wouldn't put himself into the right positions to score that many goals. That's not his game.
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Such an attacm would be seriously stunted and would barely score at allI'm not saying he'd be banging in goals like Salah or that he'd score in the same way. Just that, in an attack of similar level geared around getting the most out of him instead of Salah, his stats would surely improve compared to his stats as more of a support player. Regarding the bolded, that didn't stop him this season from scoring a fairly good number this season, so I doubt it would become an issue because a team tries to get more from him. Think we've slightly drifted off-topic though.
Firmino is scoring within the system. This is a case were the two can't be separated