He's getting better but he's still a soft touch and shouldn't be an automatic starter IMO. Bring Bailly back into the fold please.
2
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 40
- Clean sheets
- 8
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 3
- Status
I agree, but he has less calamity than Smalling at the moment. Better not put 2 calamity defenders in that line up.
Bailly is not a calamity CB, neither is Smalling. Its merely a case of bad recent form IMO. Lindelof has had his share of feck ups as well but his confidence is high right now. Last season Bailly seemed to struggle with injuries and match fitness after international breaks. He started this season well with Lindelof but he's been punished heavily because of his poor performance against Brighton, and possibly his part in the alleged semi revolt against Mourinho which is supposedly keeping Valencia out of the team too. Bailly is a much better defender than Lindelof at his best.
When it comes to form, then Lindelof is undroppable at the moment. I'd rather see Bailly in for Smalling just to test it out, but not against Juve.
In terms of potential and ability, Bailly is superior physically but not in other aspects as a defender.
I think Bailly is also a superior passer of the ball and is also more technically adept than Lindelof. You can tell he spent his academy years in Spain. Lindelof's passing ability is vastly overrated. Even now with his form being good and confidence sky high I don't see his passing as a standout attribute. Blind was a more intelligent and better passer.
Find your judgement of CBs questionable.
- Lindelof struggled initially cos of hesitation (likely from overthinking and not wanting to make a mistake instead of just following his instincts), lack of confidence and inability to cope with the pace, physicality and aggressiveness of the PL. Not surprising, given he came from Benfica, where he played alongside the experienced Luisao. As he has settled in, and adapted, he has continued to improve and would likely develop into our best CB in a few years cos the things he lacks can be acquired with time and effort.
- Bailly is a physically gifted defender but has a low footballing iq, making him prone to poor decisions and rash tackles. While you can hope to smoothen out some of his rough edges, you can never iron it out of players like him, as they just dont have it in them. Thus defenders like them are disasters waiting to happen and need to be paired with a calmer head that is able to reign them in or clean up after them. Bailly enjoyed this in his first season playing along Rojo (who is not as physically gifted). Smalling suffers from the same sickness of poor decision making and pairing him with Bailly would be a case of putting out a fire with fuel. Unfortunately Lindelof has not matured enough to reign in Bailly, talk less of the older and Man Utd veteran in smalling.
Not to be misunderstood, physically gifted defenders like Bailly are essential in dealing with attackers who rely on their physical gifts to gain an advantage (e.g. see what Mbappe did to Rojo at the WC) and enable you to play a higher line and aggressive offside trap with more confidence (as they have the athleticism to recover from bad positioning).
But these types of CBs are easier to find. The intellectual ones are rarer, while those that posses the intellect and physical ability (a la Nesta) are generational talents
I did like it that he took some accountability and tried to put some balls forward near the end, rather than taking the safe option.
It didn't come off but I like that he tried.
It didn't come off but I like that he tried.
Talk about black player stereotypes! Im the one with questionable judgment though. Bailly has more in his arsenal than just his physical attributes. It's also hilarious that you'd use Rojo, a player known for being rash and erroneous (and who has escaped several certain red cards and got a few), as an example of a player who can reign in or clean up after anyone. Bailly is the most technical adept CB we have, probably also the best passer. You're letting his physicality cloud your overall assessment of his capabilities and what he brings to the table overall. Yes he's also rash and that's a part of his game he needs to stamp out, but that alone doesn't negate the fact he's more than capable in other areas and has demonstrated this several times in a red shirt. You're reducing him to nothing but a physical specimen without a footballing brain who needs guidance and you couldn't be more wrong. You're also putting Smalling in the same bracket when in actual fact it is him who has been cleaning up after Lindelof, Bailly and Rojo or whoever he's been paired up with for the most part in the post Fergie era. @Ekeke what do you think of this assessment of Bailly?
That is just hilarious when there are intellectual CBs like Rio and low football iq but phenomenal athletes like Ramos - there are examples of each type (and variations in between) in almost every nationality and skin tone. You can also be technical and physical e.g. Nesta, Stam, etc but most tend to rely on one trait over the other. So please keep your stereotyping delusions to yourself.
Please rewatch some of the games with Rojo+Bailly paired and pay attention to the details. Rojo is not rash, he is just slow and thus easily beaten. He tries to make up for this by being overly aggressive. Bailly on the other hand will step up from the back to make a tackle he has zero chance of winning or commit to tackles when he should simply stay on his feet. But then that you think Bailly is our most technical adept CB but simply rash shows you dont know what a technical CBs looks like.
For one, a technical CB relies more on positioning and interceptions than using tackles to win the ball. If you are technical, you are not rash cos to be technical is to understand the flow of the attack, taking an appropriate position to win the ball and not having to make rash tackles. Like Maldini rightly said "if I have to make a tackle, then I have already made a mistake". Highly technical CBs make defending looking easier than it is.
Of course, physically gifted CBs having their advantages as I stated earlier and are quite suited to cleanups as they have the pace to get across and recover from a bad situation. In fact most great defensive partnerships feature a pairing of one with the other e.g. Baresi+Costacurta, Rio+Vidic, Carvalho+terry, Puyol+Pique, etc. So the idea that I am reducing Bailly to nothing but a physical specimen is just nonsense. I have simply stated the truth about the type of CB he is. But if he is your idea of what a technical CB is supposed to be, it is not my responsibility to wake you up from your daydreams.
Tough first 30 mins but the midfield offered nothing defensively aside from Fred at times. After that I thought he was really good. Our biggest problem in the defence is we are still looking for that experienced top draw defender that can offer the younger players some leadership to bring their game on.
I can't remember the last time we had a defender that scared me as much as this guy.
Its like every time the opposition attack us i feel like they are going to score.
Its like every time the opposition attack us i feel like they are going to score.
He had a good game.when Smalling and Matic are having a poor game he is always under pressure.
Even yesterday he was telling the players in front of him to create space so he can pass forward.
Even yesterday he was telling the players in front of him to create space so he can pass forward.
Anyone would look good next to Koulibaly, we could play a one legged Jones next to him and he'd look fantastic.
I think you’re wrong about their passing ability. I agree with the technique though. Also, Bailly seems to always look to pass before clearing the ball blindly, he doesn’t seem to panic as easily as the rest of our CBs. Imo, Lindelöf, even though far from great, is better in the air than Bailly. Bailly still edges it for me, on potential.
Edit: Our best defender yesterday if you look at the defending part.
He's too nice for a CB. Very shaky and unstable. If I was a striker I'd rather face Lindelof than Rojo or Bailly for example.
They will bully defenders and get in their face. We need at least one of the two centre backs to be assertive and take more control. Smalling and Lindelof together are uncertain and too shaky for my liking.
This thread has such extreme views. There are people who think he's completely useless. And then there are others who, anytime he has a passable game, make out like he's great. As always the truth is somewhere in the middle. Without a doubt he's improved this season after another slow start.
Given that Jones has played 1 single match and Bailly has played 5 but has been horrendous, I think he's taken the oppertunity to be our 2nd most dependable CB. That doesnt mean his performances have been that great though. Its more that 2 of our CBs, Rojo and Jones have essentially not featured enough this season to even count and show what they can or cant do and Bailly who has had that chance has been one of the poorest starting CBs in the league.
So its been hard for Lindelof not to establish himself more while Bailly is taking himself out of the running.
He's done okay. Before this season I said he was an extremely passive CB who only seems to look alive when the ball is coming into the box and then he tries to defend it. Thats how he was last season and for Sweden in the world cup.
This season I'd say he's been a bit more proactive with his defending. He's making more tackles than Smalling. But also I've been disappointed with the times he's beaten to a cross when he's doing his bread and butter of defending the box. For Sweden in the summer he was getting by, but for us this season his man has been on the end of chances/goals too often.
So while I do think he's our 2nd best CB so far this season and has improved after another bad start, I think he's still miles away from being at a level where he's more than a rotation/squad player if we want to have a decent defense. He's not useless, he's not great, he's just okay and hopefully when we do sign a new CB it'll force him to kick on and improve if he wants game time.
Also @Loublaze sorry, I agree that Bailly is brawn over brains. Athletic but very rash and often over aggressive. I've seen more good passes from Lindelof than Bailly, although still nowhere near as many as the better ball playing CBs. Occasionally Lindelof will play a nice pass through the middle. Bailly sticks to the basics of passing just like Smalling and Jones.
Given that Jones has played 1 single match and Bailly has played 5 but has been horrendous, I think he's taken the oppertunity to be our 2nd most dependable CB. That doesnt mean his performances have been that great though. Its more that 2 of our CBs, Rojo and Jones have essentially not featured enough this season to even count and show what they can or cant do and Bailly who has had that chance has been one of the poorest starting CBs in the league.
So its been hard for Lindelof not to establish himself more while Bailly is taking himself out of the running.
He's done okay. Before this season I said he was an extremely passive CB who only seems to look alive when the ball is coming into the box and then he tries to defend it. Thats how he was last season and for Sweden in the world cup.
This season I'd say he's been a bit more proactive with his defending. He's making more tackles than Smalling. But also I've been disappointed with the times he's beaten to a cross when he's doing his bread and butter of defending the box. For Sweden in the summer he was getting by, but for us this season his man has been on the end of chances/goals too often.
So while I do think he's our 2nd best CB so far this season and has improved after another bad start, I think he's still miles away from being at a level where he's more than a rotation/squad player if we want to have a decent defense. He's not useless, he's not great, he's just okay and hopefully when we do sign a new CB it'll force him to kick on and improve if he wants game time.
Also @Loublaze sorry, I agree that Bailly is brawn over brains. Athletic but very rash and often over aggressive. I've seen more good passes from Lindelof than Bailly, although still nowhere near as many as the better ball playing CBs. Occasionally Lindelof will play a nice pass through the middle. Bailly sticks to the basics of passing just like Smalling and Jones.
He's growing on me.
We're playing arguably the two strongest teams in Europe away from home this week. Lindelof won't get a tougher test. If he gets through it unscathed, I'd be happy to stick with him for the rest of the season.
We're playing arguably the two strongest teams in Europe away from home this week. Lindelof won't get a tougher test. If he gets through it unscathed, I'd be happy to stick with him for the rest of the season.
Juventus 1:2 Man Utd
Really turning into a bit of a player this guy...
Another strong performance. Just get another top CB so we can move Lindelof to his preferred position on the right side.
Solid game, could he have done better on their goal? Maybe, if he is a mindreader but sometimes the attacking play is just that good. Juve had plenty of chances second half but their midfield getting so far on top was the problem there rather than the play of Lindelof and Smalling.
Starts to finally look like a good defender. Goal isn't his fault imo, class pass and finish.
Probably. But sometimes I think you’ve just got to holds your hands up and accept a good goal for the good goal it is.
Needed to get something on the pass for their goal. Otherwise decent performance though he did lose possession close to the edge of our box one time, which was very poor.
Very good game from him. Hard to blame him for the goal, even though he should've done better, but that was a stroke of genius by Cristiano.
Dominant. He did all he could do and should do for Ronaldo’s goal - which is basically just watch and admire like the rest of us.
Fully grown man. Again.
Always a tendency to blame someone for a goal but the pass and volley was special. Very good tonight.
He's been fairly solid since coming back into the side.
Very good tonight, don't think he can be blamed for the goal personally.
His build up from the back isn't really that good, am I right? I mean, he was even messing up hoofing the ball kicking Juventus players everytime he tried to hoof it.
In general, decent game though.
In general, decent game though.
You can see why we paid the transfer fee for him when he was 23. His potential is finally coming to the fore.
A terrible run of personal form aside, I think giving Lindelof a run for the rest of the season makes a great deal of sense. He’s showing signs of being a player and it makes sense to see it through, for better or worse.
Very good.
It was the chance that hit the post that he seemed to mess up on. Followed no one to the near post and left his man in acres?
I can't blame him for Ronaldo's goal. He had a good game again.
People blaming him from the goal. Same type of people who criticize Lingard and others for missing the exact same chance and claiming it's a sitter. Some people need to get out and actually learn how to play football before talking so much shite.
He’s not very comfortable in the LCB spot when the ball is on his left side and he’s closed down.
Almost becoming that killing machine from Benfica.
Great game, made a mistake against one of the best players ever so we can’t blame him.
Look again, and watch what Matic does...
- Status