Newcastle could be sold to an Arab sheikh

United_We_Stand

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Like I said in another post, Khaled Bin Zayed Al Nahyan is just a distant cousin of the powerful Al Nahyans who bought City. Khaled Bin Zayed is simply a wealthy individual who's not even on Forbes lists. City, on the other hand, was technically bought by the rulers/government of Abu Dhabi. It's a case of a wealthy individual vs a wealthy government.
Some financiers in Dubai have raised questions over the Newcastle United bid because of previous financial troubles at the Bin Zayed group. A person close to the company said it has since recovered from a financial restructuring and planned to invest in the club. “Fans won’t be disappointed,” the person said. “But we will have to manage expectations — we aren’t talking Man City here.”
https://www.ft.com/content/fe065060-814c-11e9-9935-ad75bb96c849

Even if this deal goes through, I don't expect Newcastle to become a top 4 club, they'll compete with Wolves, Leicester and Everton for top 7-8 spots IMO.
 

ZolaWasMagic

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Like I said in another post, Khaled Bin Zayed Al Nahyan is just a distant cousin of the powerful Al Nahyans who bought City. Khaled Bin Zayed is simply a wealthy individual who's not even on Forbes lists. City, on the other hand, was technically bought by the rulers/government of Abu Dhabi. It's a case of a wealthy individual vs a wealthy government.

https://www.ft.com/content/fe065060-814c-11e9-9935-ad75bb96c849

Even if this deal goes through, I don't expect Newcastle to become a top 4 club, they'll compete with Wolves, Leicester and Everton for top 7-8 spots IMO.
yeh i dont think we will see newcastle spending 100-200m per window buying £40-50m players.
 

GlastonSpur

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... City's investment, on the other hand...
That's a cute name for sugar-daddy hand-outs that have not been generated or financed by the club's own earnings. Do you think it fools anyone?
 

andyox

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That's a cute name for sugar-daddy hand-outs that have not been generated or financed by the club's own earnings. Do you think it fools anyone?
The increase in City's value as a club is fact. You can either reference the club's valuation based on the 2015 investment by CMC, or you can reference a number of more recent football finance studies published by Deloitte, etc. They're fairly consistent. I have never denied that the increase in the club's value was driven by equity investment from the owner. Equity investment is a perfectly common and valid strategy in business, as is debt investment. So you still haven't really answered my initial post.
 
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Lebowski

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The reason you're in this state isn't City's money but simply your mismanagement. Spurs and Liverpool are a good example on dealing with it, they are in the CL final, not City, and they did quite well in the league while you finished 6th. No matter what you tell yourself, City aren't spending 300m a window every window to make it impossible for others to buy players and there's a limit of players City can buy or money we can spend. The way you are managed, the chances of you finishing in top 6 would just as much be in jeopardy in a European Super League without City as it is in a Premier League with one. Liverpool spending quite well in the past 2 years in building the best defence in Europe and easily dealing with Bayern and Barcelona on their way to CL final is a testament to the fact that clubs who are run well can compete City and other rich clubs and super clubs. It all comes down to management and how you use the money.
I don't know if it's coincidental or if obfuscation comes as easy to your supporters as it does your chairman, but you're moving the goalposts.

You've moved the conversation from your initial point, that people wouldn't watch a Superleague as it would contain B Tier players, and have started talking about how United will be just as shit in a theoretical Superleague as we have been in the PL recently. Notwithstanding the sudden shift... so what? What does how good United would do in either competition have to do with the justification or likelihood of whether it will be formed? Clubs aren't saying 'we're not winning trophies any more so were going to form our own circlejerk to make ourselves feel better'. They see the influx of money from outside of football and the creation of clubs with bottomless resources and want something done about it as it threatens their business model and their own sustainability. They also see the regulatory bodies seemingly allowing this to happen despite paying lip service to the idea that we have controls to stop financial doping and are saying 'do something about it or we will'.
 

Horace Pinker

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It's clear so many have no clue of football history. All this "same family owning to clubs is dodgy" It was fine for decades when the Moores family owned everton and Liverpool. They were white though so obviously trustworthy whereas the Arabs are clearly up to something. Casual racism at it's worst.
 

manc exile

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If the number of rich owners start increasing drastically, I reckon they would have no choice but to eventually implement it. I don't think even the FA/UEFA/FIFA are mad enough to let player prices eventually touch close to 1 billion dollars, which is where we are heading at this rate.
salary cap will not work
it works in the nba because players do not have anywhere else to go.
premier league salary cap will lead to the re emergence of italian league or german league or spanish league as the highest wages and therefore best players

european wage cap, then look out for asian teams getting the best players
 

Needham

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Please. You are holding one person responsible for the actions of a country, why? I will tell you why. He is an Arab so you think everything he says and does is a lie. Liverpools main sponsor has been proven to launder money for terrorists and cartels but of course you are not up in arms against that because it doesn't suit your agenda. Utd has Saudi sponsors. It's as clear as day. You have already convicted us of all allegations without trial, you insinuate everything we do is underhand. It's either racism or just being bitter because we have ruined your stranglehold on the league. 142 years of being able to spend your own money changed overnight by a corrupt cartel scrambling to protect themselves. Disgusting. Debt is of course ok though. What a surprise. City have failed ffp once, the same as Liverpool (who btw would have failed it the following years as well but were somehow able to write off £50 million of expenditure on the building of a new stadium, a stadium that one not spade broke ground on)_Their owners are white though so it doesn't matter.
Debt is not ok, and it's here where the myopia of your ethnicity-based paranoia blinds you to what's actually been happening. Utd fans are some of the only groups of supporters who have committed en masse to expressing their contempt for their club's ownership. Hard to meet a single one who doesn't feel a leveraged takeover wasn't an "underhand" dirty poor-rich-man's way to rinse a club/business/sporting institution. This was expressed repeatedly and clearly throughout the Green-and-Gold protests.
But the Glazer's really are small time crooks by comparison to state actors engaged in operating societies perfectly open about their abuses of power. Quick thought experiment which might help persuade you to put the 'Waycism!' card back in the box for a moment and look for a decent argument: Let's say the Latin American dictatorships of the 70s/80s were still in full power today and one of them took a fancy to a PL team, sinking in to it hundreds of millions of the country's national wealth (let's say wealth built on bananas rather than oil). Do you think for a minute it would be any more palatable because they are white? People would be expressing the same or greater levels of disgust with such creeps taking on an English football team as a project to burnish it's national image. "Convicted us all of allegations without trial"..? Please...

My friend, bitterness takes a long time to develop (witness City through the wilderness years) and Utd's success under Ferguson is too recent for it to have taken hold as a motivating factor. Didn't you see nearly everyone on this board hoping City would win the league...? Where was their racism as they willed on "your" team to beat the American owned LFC? (You keep bringing Liverpool into the conversation as if you imagine Utd fans would ignore the opportunity of another pretext to attack Liverpool. Again, laughable.) You talk about "we"and "us" in a way which makes it unclear whether you're from the same part of the world as the City ownership. If you are, you couldn't have a clearer agenda in the conversation. You are a recent convert to supporting Manchester City and your loyalty is bound up with a national/ethnic/clan/religious/whatever interest which, if it didn't exist, would have seen you carry on supporting Chelsea. If you aren't from that part of the world, so what? No one even thinks of the current Manchester City as having any relationship to the club which used to play in the derby. That will never change and I can see how it hurts you to the point where you yell racism racism racism. I bet you are desperately hoping Newcastle are sold in this way, albeit to a slightly less wealthy, less threatening concern. It will take some of the heat off.
 

AllezLesDiables

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Outside of the big 6 PL teams are a bargain. Newcastle for 350 million is a joke. Put it this way. 8 years ago the Golden State Warriors were as poor as Newcastle and sold for 450 million. The Warriors were valued at 3.1 prior to this season and they are about to move to an extremely wealthy city, San Francisco.

While Newcastle is hardly the Bay Area they could easily go from 350 million to over 1.5 million or more in less than 10 years.
 

Loublaze

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Outside of the big 6 PL teams are a bargain. Newcastle for 350 million is a joke. Put it this way. 8 years ago the Golden State Warriors were as poor as Newcastle and sold for 450 million. The Warriors were valued at 3.1 prior to this season and they are about to move to an extremely wealthy city, San Francisco.

While Newcastle is hardly the Bay Area they could easily go from 350 million to over 1.5 million or more in less than 10 years.
You really can't compare PL teams outside the top 6 to NBA franchises. America is just a different playground. Every NBA team is worth at least a billion right now
 

BolehLand

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Imaging in the next few years some of the EPL clubs owned by family/relative of Man City Owner. Match Fixing possible?
 

koop

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Not really clued in about the legality of this.

But what can be done about this and potentially other teams being bought by billionaires and buying their way to success?
 

adexkola

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Not really clued in about the legality of this.

But what can be done about this and potentially other teams being bought by billionaires and buying their way to success?
Do you want things to go back to how they were, when the little teams knew their place? Or would you like football to be transformed to a sport where you are prohibited to buy your way to success, whether you have old or new money? Because what can be done depends on what you want to happen.
 

fck

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The EPL is well on its way to becoming the NBA of football. It'll become harder to win the league and it'll become harder to win the FA cup than CL IMO. All within the next decade / 15 years
England is too small of a country and football is too important in the rest of Europe for that ever to happen. For the EPL to become like the NBA Huddersfield for example has to be better than Real Madrid, Barca, Bayern etc. and the top 50 players or so all have to play in the EPL.
 

Random Task

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Do you want things to go back to how they were, when the little teams knew their place? Or would you like football to be transformed to a sport where you are prohibited to buy your way to success, whether you have old or new money? Because what can be done depends on what you want to happen.
It's already that way. Bar the odd exception, football's most prestigious trophies go to the clubs with the most financial power. Throwing Newcastle into the mix will serve only to widen the existing divide between the rich and not-so-rich clubs.
 
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nore1975

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It's clear so many have no clue of football history. All this "same family owning to clubs is dodgy" It was fine for decades when the Moores family owned everton and Liverpool. They were white though so obviously trustworthy whereas the Arabs are clearly up to something. Casual racism at it's worst.
Pretty sure City bought 1m pound players in the late 70s and early 80s so bringing up Everton and Liverpool is a pretty weak point.
 

nore1975

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So much casual racism in this thread. "They are Arabs so have to be underhand" City guilty without trial. I don't remember anybody bothered when the Moores family had Liverpool and Everton and slung all their money to take a 2nd division club to English and Euro domination. They were white i suppose though eh.
The reality is you are owned by Arabs. Stating that is stating a fact. Simple as!
 

andyox

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The reality is you are owned by Arabs. Stating that is stating a fact. Simple as!
I don't particularly agree with the racism angle, but let's just be honest about usage of words, because words have context and sometimes a pejorative meaning. I have never heard Liverpool or United's owners described according to their nationality or ethnicity, for example. It's either John Henry/Fenway Sports or the Glazers. So it does seem strange to refer to City's owner as the Arabs rather than using his name/company (Sheikh Mansour or ADUG), unless there is a specific reason for bringing the owner's ethnicity into it.
 

ThierryHenry14

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The increase in City's value as a club is fact. You can either reference the club's valuation based on the 2015 investment by CMC, or you can reference a number of more recent football finance studies published by Deloitte, etc. They're fairly consistent. I have never denied that the increase in the club's value was driven by equity investment from the owner. Equity investment is a perfectly common and valid strategy in business, as is debt investment. So you still haven't really answered my initial post.
I agree with you totally. Leicester owner bought Leicester in 2010 for £39m, cleared their debts and now the club is worth £371M, and with a stadium expansion plan. Only because Leicester owner didn't spend as heavy as Chelsea and Man City owner so people don't complain about "buying their way to success". The Srivaddhanaprabha family bought the team back in 2010, won the promotion in 2013-2014, then won the EPL in 2015-2016 season. The club's value increased from £39m to £371M. Leicester, Chelsea and Man City are basically doing the same thing.
 

VorZakone

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I agree with you totally. Leicester owner bought Leicester in 2010 for £39m, cleared their debts and now the club is worth £371M, and with a stadium expansion plan. Only because Leicester owner didn't spend as heavy as Chelsea and Man City owner so people don't complain about "buying their way to success". The Srivaddhanaprabha family bought the team back in 2010, won the promotion in 2013-2014, then won the EPL in 2015-2016 season. The club's value increased from £39m to £371M. Leicester, Chelsea and Man City are basically doing the same thing.
Wow. That doesn't seem much.

I think certain Swansea shareholders also made big bucks selling their stake. They bought their stake a long time ago and sold it when Swansea was doing pretty well in the PL.
 

andyox

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I agree with you totally. Leicester owner bought Leicester in 2010 for £39m, cleared their debts and now the club is worth £371M, and with a stadium expansion plan. Only because Leicester owner didn't spend as heavy as Chelsea and Man City owner so people don't complain about "buying their way to success". The Srivaddhanaprabha family bought the team back in 2010, won the promotion in 2013-2014, then won the EPL in 2015-2016 season. The club's value increased from £39m to £371M. Leicester, Chelsea and Man City are basically doing the same thing.
Yes it is interesting that City are seen as the ultimate sugar daddy club and Leicester are seen as the 5,000/1 romance story. Clearly the scale of investment is totally different, I would never deny that. But the basic business strategy is almost exactly the same, and our clubs' values have both increased by almost an identical ratio -- City from £250m to £2.5bn, and Leicester from £39m to £371M. We also have in common that we both failed FFP on the way up! I'm not sure what this tells me about the generally opposite reaction to both clubs: 1) perhaps people don't really know Leicester's growth story and how it happened (or other clubs such as Bournemouth for that matter); 2) perhaps it is just the scale of investment in City's case that people have a problem with; 3) perhaps it's that City are an ongoing threat to the elite clubs in a way that Leicester aren't; 4) perhaps it's the additional UAE/human rights issue that people have a problem with. All of those are perfectly valid and maybe it's a mix of all of those, but it is interesting because it does suggest that in general people don't have a problem with an owner equity investment model.

I do also think that there's some fairly major misunderstandings about finance that seem to confuse some posters/fans. It's perfectly normal in business for equity investors to sustain losses as part of a business strategy. The obvious example is Amazon, a loss-making bookshop that IPO'd, made losses year after year due to its heavy investment in warehouses/stock etc. to drive revenue growth. And now look at it. That sounds awfully like City's strategy of heavy investment in player acquisition to drive on-field performance, with a direct link to driving revenue growth. Uber is basically following exactly the same path.

I know that fans, myself included honestly, don't really like seeing football clubs as traditional businesses, but that's exactly what they are these days. I can't think immediately of any PL club where the owner is clearly not there to make money from their investment. So it's strange to me to see people laugh or put "investment" in inverted commas when it comes to City, I think mostly on the basis that City sustained heavy losses immediately following the ADUG takeover. Yes we sustained heavy losses, and yes we were an investment. An excellent investment as it's turned out. Losses and investment are not mutually exclusive, they happily co-exist as part of this type of business strategy.

Final note, I've said all of that, but FFP of course now means that we're in a situation where this type of equity investment model is now no longer permitted. Is it because it's not a valid business strategy? No. So why? This is when City fans start talking about elite club self-interest and preventing competition...
 

ThierryHenry14

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There are 3 different type of foreign investment from what I have seen.

1. Arsenal owner as a perfect example, and in general US investor. They will buy an established top 4 club, maximize the commercial value of the club without capital investment. This type is the smartest investor with the least risk.
2. Ambitious owner like Chelsea and Man City. They invest heavily in the clubs to reach the top, and at the same time increase the value of the club. However there is no guarantee spent more money will get you the title. See Man Utd as an example in EPL, or Man City/PSG in UCL. The extra investment to push from a top 4 side to a title winning side is a lot more and it is also more risky. Now Chelsea already won the EPL, FA cup, League cup and UCL, and it is running more like a top 4 side with a self sustained model.
3. Leicester owner as example. They will buy clubs from lower league, invest in it to win promotion and then stays in the EPL and happy stays outside of top 6. This is very risky as well but provide the most return.

Obviously owner in the category 2 will destabilize the existent dominance of the traditional big clubs like Man Utd. So when Arabs is mentioned people will automatically see them as one of those owner. The club I think will suffer however will be Arsenal though. I can see Arsenal drops outside of top 6 very soon if the newcastle take over happens.

The FFP is created to protect the interest of the traditional big clubs.

As a football fan I support foreign investment. You will never find any Chelsea, Man City or Leicester fan against the idea. It makes the league more competitive.
 
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Brown Toothpick

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It's clear so many have no clue of football history. All this "same family owning to clubs is dodgy" It was fine for decades when the Moores family owned everton and Liverpool. They were white though so obviously trustworthy whereas the Arabs are clearly up to something. Casual racism at it's worst.
Pretty much.
 

andyox

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There are 3 different type of foreign investment from what I have seen.

1. Arsenal owner as a perfect example, and in general US investor. They will buy an established top 4 club, maximize the commercial value of the club without capital investment. This type is the smartest investor with the least risk.
2. Ambitious owner like Chelsea and Man City. They invest heavily in the clubs to reach the top, and at the same time increase the value of the club. However there is no guarantee spent more money will get you the title. See Man Utd as an example in EPL, or Man City/PSG in UCL. The extra investment to push from a top 4 side to a title winning side is a lot more and it is also more risky. Now Chelsea already won the EPL, FA cup, League cup and UCL, and it is running more like a top 4 side with a self sustained model.
3. Leicester owner as example. They will buy clubs from lower league, invest in it to win promotion and then stays in the EPL and happy stays outside of top 6. This is very risky as well but provide the most return.

Obviously owner in the category 2 will destabilize the existent dominance of the traditional big clubs like Man Utd. So when Arabs is mentioned people will automatically see them as one of those owner. The club I think will suffer however will be Arsenal though. I can see Arsenal drops outside of top 6 very soon if the newcastle take over happens.

The FFP is created to protect the interest of the traditional big clubs.

As a football fan I support foreign investment. You will never find any Chelsea, Man City or Leicester fan against the idea. It makes the league more competitive.
Yea agreed with those definitions. On #1 John Henry is on record saying he only bought Liverpool because of FFP. By locking in the competitive position of the elite clubs with the highest revenue, FFP helps to secure his investment given Liverpool's status, and makes it much more like a lower risk US sports owner model (where they have no relegation concept, no transfer fees really, and salary cap). It's interesting that there are several American owners that have failed in English football because they have not been able to follow this model (Ellis Short, Sunderland and Randy Lerner, Aston Villa come to mind) due to the totally different structure of English football, and have tried to do #2/#3 and completely failed.

Totally agree on your threat perception too. #1 hates #2 but doesn't really mind #3 because it's no threat to the elite clubs' dominance and the security of their investment. Basically the same business strategy though, as I mentioned earlier, just different scale.

Given that my original post was a reply to a Spurs fan that praised external investment via debt, but criticised external investment via equity, I'm not actually sure where Spurs fit in really. They fit most closely with #1 given their historical status and revenue potential, but their fans like to see themselves as a true underdog story.
 

fergiesarmy1

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I love how these city fans have become self educated experts in finance and global politics since the sheikh rolled up :lol:
 

andyox

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I love how these city fans have become self educated experts in finance and global politics since the sheikh rolled up :lol:
I did study it and work in it to be fair. Assume you work in human rights advocacy?
 

fergiesarmy1

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I did study it and work in it to be fair. Assume you work in human rights advocacy?
Lived in Dubai for 10 years so pretty much know the lay of the land, Emirate good, non emirate bad. Emirate men good, all women bad. Slave labour good treat as animals. I could go on and before you start Dubai is the public face of the UAE, the other emirates are much worse
 

andyox

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Lived in Dubai for 10 years so pretty much know the lay of the land, Emirate good, non emirate bad. Emirate men good, all women bad. Slave labour good treat as animals. I could go on and before you start Dubai is the public face of the UAE, the other emirates are much worse
Haha we probably overlapped. I was there 2011-2016... don't disagree with your summary at all.
 

Karel Podolsky

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There are 3 different type of foreign investment from what I have seen.

1. Arsenal owner as a perfect example, and in general US investor. They will buy an established top 4 club, maximize the commercial value of the club without capital investment. This type is the smartest investor with the least risk.
2. Ambitious owner like Chelsea and Man City. They invest heavily in the clubs to reach the top, and at the same time increase the value of the club. However there is no guarantee spent more money will get you the title. See Man Utd as an example in EPL, or Man City/PSG in UCL. The extra investment to push from a top 4 side to a title winning side is a lot more and it is also more risky. Now Chelsea already won the EPL, FA cup, League cup and UCL, and it is running more like a top 4 side with a self sustained model.
3. Leicester owner as example. They will buy clubs from lower league, invest in it to win promotion and then stays in the EPL and happy stays outside of top 6. This is very risky as well but provide the most return.

Obviously owner in the category 2 will destabilize the existent dominance of the traditional big clubs like Man Utd. So when Arabs is mentioned people will automatically see them as one of those owner. The club I think will suffer however will be Arsenal though. I can see Arsenal drops outside of top 6 very soon if the newcastle take over happens.

The FFP is created to protect the interest of the traditional big clubs.

As a football fan I support foreign investment. You will never find any Chelsea, Man City or Leicester fan against the idea. It makes the league more competitive.
Ha, I am thinking the same.
 

AllezLesDiables

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You really can't compare PL teams outside the top 6 to NBA franchises. America is just a different playground. Every NBA team is worth at least a billion right now
There is some correlative value. The big obstacle is risk of relegation. However the money has exploded in football and any club that gets backing, can draw, and puts a strong management team in place can climb the ladder fairly quickly.

Newcastle is not much smaller than Pittsburgh and St. Louis who 4 and 3 teams in the big 4 professional sports leagues.

The PL will start to catch-up in its valuations as the PL continues to expand its reach in the U.S. The downside will be ticket prices continuing to increase.
 

United_We_Stand

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"The grandfather of the Emirati Sheikh who says he has tabled a £350m bid for Newcastle was the brother of the grandfather of Manchester City owner Sheikh Mansour - and murdered him in a 1926 family power struggle...
This has relevance to modern-day UAE politics and economics because Sheikh Khaled's branch of the family ended up in Dubai - where he is based - effectively estranged from the richest and most powerful branch of the family, based in Abu Dhabi...
Newcastle are tight-lipped but club sources have been sceptical about the bid. No proof of funding has been made public - or seen by the Premier League, who haven't even started FPP tests as no deal has been formally agreed..."
 

Dirty Schwein

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"The grandfather of the Emirati Sheikh who says he has tabled a £350m bid for Newcastle was the brother of the grandfather of Manchester City owner Sheikh Mansour - and murdered him in a 1926 family power struggle...
This has relevance to modern-day UAE politics and economics because Sheikh Khaled's branch of the family ended up in Dubai - where he is based - effectively estranged from the richest and most powerful branch of the family, based in Abu Dhabi...
Newcastle are tight-lipped but club sources have been sceptical about the bid. No proof of funding has been made public - or seen by the Premier League, who haven't even started FPP tests as no deal has been formally agreed..."
Bloody hell. More drama than you can Sheikh a stick at.
 

Sandikan

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There are 3 different type of foreign investment from what I have seen.

1. Arsenal owner as a perfect example, and in general US investor. They will buy an established top 4 club, maximize the commercial value of the club without capital investment. This type is the smartest investor with the least risk.
2. Ambitious owner like Chelsea and Man City. They invest heavily in the clubs to reach the top, and at the same time increase the value of the club. However there is no guarantee spent more money will get you the title. See Man Utd as an example in EPL, or Man City/PSG in UCL. The extra investment to push from a top 4 side to a title winning side is a lot more and it is also more risky. Now Chelsea already won the EPL, FA cup, League cup and UCL, and it is running more like a top 4 side with a self sustained model.
3. Leicester owner as example. They will buy clubs from lower league, invest in it to win promotion and then stays in the EPL and happy stays outside of top 6. This is very risky as well but provide the most return.

Obviously owner in the category 2 will destabilize the existent dominance of the traditional big clubs like Man Utd. So when Arabs is mentioned people will automatically see them as one of those owner. The club I think will suffer however will be Arsenal though. I can see Arsenal drops outside of top 6 very soon if the newcastle take over happens.

The FFP is created to protect the interest of the traditional big clubs.

As a football fan I support foreign investment. You will never find any Chelsea, Man City or Leicester fan against the idea. It makes the league more competitive.
It's interesting to talk of being "competitive" I suppose.

This last couple of years didn't feel too competitive, with City winning 5 of the English 6 trophies. Even Liverpool with terrific management and putting a very attacking style of football in with peak performances still couldn't overhaul them, even with the highest amount of game changing luck in games In the league.

Unlike Chelsea, whose owner turned the taps off on their aggressive spending, there's no sign City's domination will end in the same way.
 

soaphroniscuss

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The EPL is well on its way to becoming the NBA of football. It'll become harder to win the league and it'll become harder to win the FA cup than CL IMO. All within the next decade / 15 years
You think that oil money is too much for us to compete against do you? :nono: