Patrick08
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LindelofWhen was the last time we had a defender with his ball playing?
Ferdinand?
I don't think Felliani was a flop for the club. Anytime he was played he gave his all and came up with many important goals for the club. Goals against arsenal, young boys, Everton in the fa Cup semis. We had such a dire midfield setup that we had to play to his strengths and the involved hoof ball. We bought him for 30m and knew what type of player he was before buying him and he lived up to that when he was at United. Might not be the mould of a typical United player but he done what was asked of him each time he went on the pitch.For the fee we paid he was a flop. You don't buy a 30m rated midfielder (which at the time was big money) to play him either as a reserve or pelt him with crosses. We're Manchester United not Burnley.
Has shown nothing of his mythical ball playing.Lindelof
If he was bought for 5m and as a backup player then maybe he wouldn't have been a flop. However we paid some serious money for him back then and he was expected to be a first teamer something he wasn't.I don't think Felliani was a flop for the club. Anytime he was played he gave his all and came up with many important goals for the club. Goals against arsenal, young boys, Everton in the fa Cup semis. We had such a dire midfield setup that we had to play to his strengths and the involved hoof ball. We bought him for 30m and knew what type of player he was before buying him and he lived up to that when he was at United. Might not be the mould of a typical United player but he done what was asked of him each time he went on the pitch.
Considering Moyes who knew the player tried to play him as a defensive midfielder, where he’s awful rather than an advanced midfielder shows we had no idea of how to use him, or no idea of what he was actually good at.I don't think Felliani was a flop for the club. Anytime he was played he gave his all and came up with many important goals for the club. Goals against arsenal, young boys, Everton in the fa Cup semis. We had such a dire midfield setup that we had to play to his strengths and the involved hoof ball. We bought him for 30m and knew what type of player he was before buying him and he lived up to that when he was at United. Might not be the mould of a typical United player but he done what was asked of him each time he went on the pitch.
I don't think we are bringing maguire in because of lindelof.Has shown nothing of his mythical ball playing.
Probably hence us looking to recruit maguire!
No he wasn't. He wasn't good enough- but there is a huge gap between a failure and a huge success. We have had many flops at this club, but Fellaini was a hard-working player who did an ok job - nothing more, nothing less. You can argue that we shouldn't have signed him, but for the job he was bought to do, he did ok.For the fee we paid he was a flop. You don't buy a 30m rated midfielder (which at the time was big money) to play him either as a reserve or pelt him with crosses. We're Manchester United not Burnley.
Well that is kind of the problem isn't it. If we leave it - Leicester get to keep their player, we get to keep our Money - but we wont have the central defender we want. So there is only one loser if we don't pay the extra £10 million - and that is us. Unless we have a equally good defender lined up, and I guess we haven't.We shouldn't be either. £70m is already a crazy enough bid. They can take it or leave it.
He was brought to be a first teamer not to become the guy you put in the 89 minute as a panic moveNo he wasn't. He wasn't good enough- but there is a huge gap between a failure and a huge success. We have had many flops at this club, but Fellaini was a hard-working player who did an ok job - nothing more, nothing less. You can argue that we shouldn't have signed him, but for the job he was bought to do, he did ok.
No he didn’t “give his all” every time he played.I don't think Felliani was a flop for the club. Anytime he was played he gave his all and came up with many important goals for the club. Goals against arsenal, young boys, Everton in the fa Cup semis. We had such a dire midfield setup that we had to play to his strengths and the involved hoof ball. We bought him for 30m and knew what type of player he was before buying him and he lived up to that when he was at United. Might not be the mould of a typical United player but he done what was asked of him each time he went on the pitch.
One can hope though.I don't think we are bringing maguire in because of lindelof.
Yes he is good on the ball but what about other aspects of defending? He would certainly improve us but for potentially 75-80m?When was the last time we had a defender with his ball playing?
Ferdinand?
This needs to stop now. Nobody has any issues with him being EnglishJust maybe we should let Ole bring in the players he wants so he can have a fair crack of the whip. If Ole feels Maguire is the man to improve the back line then so be it. The fact he is English is why some like to underrate and run him down.
That's more to do with the ineptitude of the manager than the player himself. When he was used correctly by lvg and mourinho he had his best seasons for united.Considering Moyes who knew the player tried to play him as a defensive midfielder, where he’s awful rather than an advanced midfielder shows we had no idea of how to use him, or no idea of what he was actually good at.
Yes he tried hard, but of course he was a flop.
So McGuire is not better than Lindelof? Why does McGuire need a partner who can pass the ball if he's supposed to be the ball player?Smalling is good to keep in the squad for sure, but he simply isn't good enough on the ball or composed enough to be starting consistently. We will see the same issues at CB if it's Smalling +1.
Everyone should be a certain standard of footballer to play for United, Smalling isn’t. Maguire and Linderof certainly areSo McGuire is not better than Lindelof? Why does McGuire need a partner who can pass the ball if he's supposed to be the ball player?
I never said that, Maguire and Lindelof can play together. Having 2 centerbacks that are comfortable and composed on the ball would be better than just 1. Both are better than Smalling.So McGuire is not better than Lindelof? Why does McGuire need a partner who can pass the ball if he's supposed to be the ball player?
How are you still spelling his name wrong 73 thousand posts into this thread?So McGuire is not better than Lindelof? Why does McGuire need a partner who can pass the ball if he's supposed to be the ball player?
Not just Maguire, but English, British and Irish players are ofter underated, alot of posters would prefer someone they haven't really seen before from a different league because generally they have only seen YouTube clips, stats and video games, it happens all the time. It's probably also why the focus is so much on pace because in FIFA and FM speed is a key factor. In FIFA or FM if you play a high line you get done with balls over the top or through ball all the time if you have slow centre backs, that's just in the game mechanics. In reality these kind of goals aren't scored that often until a game has been stretched because defender's aren't stagnant sprites and are able to read and react to things around them.This needs to stop now. Nobody has any issues with him being English
I don't believe that I have a bias against anyone but in recent history English, British and Irish players are more overrated than underrated because they haven't actually been good, with the exception being Sterling who happened to be underrated for a reason that can't really be explained.Not just Maguire, but English, British and Irish players are ofter underated, alot of posters would prefer someone they haven't really seen before from a different league because generally they have only seen YouTube clips, stats and video games, it happens all the time. It's probably also why the focus is so much on pace because in FIFA and FM speed is a key factor. In FIFA or FM if you play a high line you get done with balls over the top or through ball all the time if you have slow centre backs, that's just in the game mechanics. In reality these kind of goals aren't scored that often until a game has been stretched because defender's aren't stagnant sprites and are able to read and react to things around them.
Not saying it is in every case, some may have a better knowledge of whichever ever league or player, but from some posts it's quite obvious they haven't seen a player before.
I see what you did there. Haha.Woodward, the media and some supporters will have a hard time accepting that Maguire will ultimately cost more than De Ligt.
Irritating parallels will be drawn. Much like we had with Kagawa and Hazard.
I feel sorry for Maguire. He'd have to have a big head on his shoulders...
How are you still spelling his name wrong 73 thousand posts into this thread?
I think youngsters in youth teams and players that just break into the squad/team are often vastly overrated as everyone is looking for the next big thing.I don't believe that I have a bias against anyone but in recent history English, British and Irish players are more overrated than underrated because they haven't actually been good, with the exception being Sterling who happened to be underrated for a reason that can't really be explained.
Teams need 11 players who can pass the ball now, to cope with the opposition press. Even goalies should be able to pass. Do you recall goals scored against United last year when De Gea failed to cleanly deliver the ball within his own half. The United receiver was dispossessed & a goal scored. Happened at least twice.So McGuire is not better than Lindelof? Why does Maguire need a partner who can pass the ball if he's supposed to be the ball player?
Problem is if you generate money through sales the selling club of the player you want to buy then know how much money you have. Buy first and then do a fire sale to recoup as much as poss afterwards
But your point specifically mentioned naationalities, you didn't talk about PL players but English, British and Irish. If anything players from other leagues are routinely underrated with most leagues being deemed as beneaf premier league standard, it's done in every single threads whether we are talking about a player joining or leaving the PL. Like I said in a previous post, someone like Maguire basically has no CL/EL experience, he hasn't played against the best players on earth on a regular basis and it's true for pretty much every players that is outside the Top 6, these players are typically overrated in England and people over value their PL experience, you just have to look at the likes of Barkley or even Drinkwater who objectively had good seasons in midtable teams and deserved a chance at a higher level but the reality is that competing for CL football is a different world and players that are in that race are judged differently, same is true for Evans or Keane who are good PL players and have had good seasons but they weren't good enough for United's ambitions.I think youngsters in youth teams and players that just break into the squad/team are often vastly overrated as everyone is looking for the next big thing.
I think my point is that regardless of nationality, the players that people haven't seen alot of are instantly better player's then players they are familiar with. Technical and physical skills are given a higher importance than mentally and experienced because they are easier to see and quantify.
In what way can we compensate for his lack of pace? Is Lindelof fast? Do we have a dm who will have the legs to cover? Our fullbacks will be high up the pitch how are they doing to cover? This literally makes no sense, feels like we’re trying to convince ourselves it will work when it’s plain to see he lacks crucial attributes we need, if we have to work so hard to compensate for him anyway is he worth it?He's an ideal player to play the highline tbh. His ability on the ball would allow him to step into our midfield and become a extra midfielder if needs be. We have very quick fullbacks and CBs to more than compensate for his lack of pace. He isn't any slower than De Ligt tbf.
Toby and Vertonghen are both not fast but still Spurs play with high line. Pique played all his career in a very high line and he lacked pace too.In what way can we compensate for his lack of pace? Is Lindelof fast? Do we have a dm who will have the legs to cover? Our fullbacks will be high up the pitch how are they doing to cover? This literally makes no sense, feels like we’re trying to convince ourselves it will work when it’s plain to see he lacks crucial attributes we need, if we have to work so hard to compensate for him anyway is he worth it?
You’ve got to be fecking kidding —absolute nonsense.He is nothing but a cart horse . Can people stop comparing him to Ferdinand?
At best he is another Phil Jones
Anticipation and positioning are almost everything for a defender, the other aspects that people often forget is agility and explosivity, the ability to turn and quickly change direction is more important than top speed, players are rarely at full speed.Toby and Vertonghen are both not fast but still Spurs play with high line. Pique played all his career in a very high line and he lacked pace too.
Pace alone isn't enough, anticipation is also very important. (not saying Maguire has this btw).
*MacwireSo McGuire is not better than Lindelof? Why does McGuire need a partner who can pass the ball if he's supposed to be the ball player?
Yeah, acceleration is very important than top speed/pace. So all the top speed stats are not of much use.Anticipation and positioning are almost everything for a defender, the other aspects that people often forget is agility and explosivity, the ability to turn and quickly change direction is more important than top speed, players are rarely at full speed.
Infraction every time someone does it, Geebs.That bugs the fook out of me