Ole's United: Tactics and style 2019/20

Bastian

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Fitness and pace. This is what Ole has talked most about, in terms of what he wants. He hasn't talked about playing out from the back or short passing possession control, even though he's talked about controlling possession at times (like he did before we played Barca...). He wants his team to outrun its opponents and fight for every inch. Which is probably something most managers want in general. But what is the general setup?

What Ole is demanding is pretty much what's been going on at Liverpool, plus they've got quality. They've got a front three where they all graft and two of them have loads of goals in them. Ole began with the 433 and the attacking trio of Martial-Rashford-Lingard did fairly well. But Martial is hardly the sort of player to fight for 90mins. And none of them is prolific in front of goal.

We haven't got midfield two combination that is likely to dominate against other teams, so a strict 442 (with currently no wingers at the club) is quite unlikely.

How would a player like Sancho (in the unlikely event we actually signed him this summer) but utilised? Would we go for a 4231 where the striker isn't too isolated being backed by a #10 (potentially Pogba) or would he effectively slot into Lingard's role as a right-sided attacker playing nearer the striker interchanging at times?

Of course whether Pogba stays or goes has significant tactical bearings on what we can and cannot do.

What do people think?
 

beergod

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Fitness and pace. This is what Ole has talked most about, in terms of what he wants. He hasn't talked about playing out from the back or short passing possession control, even though he's talked about controlling possession at times (like he did before we played Barca...). He wants his team to outrun its opponents and fight for every inch. Which is probably something most managers want in general. But what is the general setup?

What Ole is demanding is pretty much what's been going on at Liverpool, plus they've got quality. They've got a front three where they all graft and two of them have loads of goals in them. Ole began with the 433 and the attacking trio of Martial-Rashford-Lingard did fairly well. But Martial is hardly the sort of player to fight for 90mins. And none of them is prolific in front of goal.

We haven't got midfield two combination that is likely to dominate against other teams, so a strict 442 (with currently no wingers at the club) is quite unlikely.

How would a player like Sancho (in the unlikely event we actually signed him this summer) but utilised? Would we go for a 4231 where the striker isn't too isolated being backed by a #10 (potentially Pogba) or would he effectively slot into Lingard's role as a right-sided attacker playing nearer the striker interchanging at times?

Of course whether Pogba stays or goes has significant tactical bearings on what we can and cannot do.

What do people think?
I think he's going to be let down by the suits and be stuck with too many players who can't/won't move the way he wants. We'll look good when players are fit, but will go to pieces when injuries take their toll.
 

Hoof the ball

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Ole doesn't seem the type to talk tactics. He's very coy in interviews about even talking about tactics in a general sense.

We do need to be looking for more than superb physical attributes, since the top clubs have a combination of both fitness and technical standards, equally emphasised.
 

Bastian

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I think he's going to be let down by the suits and be stuck with too many players who can't/won't move the way he wants. We'll look good when players are fit, but will go to pieces when injuries take their toll.
I'm not sure about that. I think we'll spend loads of money. The biggest unknowns are how we'll replace our good players if they are sold and if the money we'd get for them would be reinvested on top of an actual transfer budget.

But as the squad looks now, I'd assume he'd go back to the 433 he had in his honeymoon period, with Martial-Rashford-Lingard up top, but that midfield would be suspect and the defense even more so.

Also, if people like Martial aren't giving their all, and Lingard not producing anything, he will have Greenwood, Gomes and Chong to introduce into the team. I don't doubt there'll be competition for places (in that part of the team). But I'm still none the wiser as to how he'll setup the team.
 

LawCharltonBest

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I’ve watched Carlos Tevez in Red run from the left wing position to the right back position in a pre season friendly to win the ball back

I’ve also watched Carlos Tevez in sky blue standing up front scratching his arse thinking about golf

I don’t think you can necessarily buy hard working players. I think you have to be good enough to make them work hard
 

AgentP

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I wanted to make a thread on what's more important for a manager. Whether it's tactics or his ability to motivate the players. Ole definitely seems the type who gives more importance to the latter. Even Fergie, Jose, Zidane, Ancelloti, etc are better known for their man management than for their system. Pep and Klopp seem to have both whereas Sarri and maybe Tuchel and Emery focus more on their system.

Under Ole, we have had few games where we completely overwhelmed the opposition (our initial few games) and also games where we sat back and beat teams on the counter. We'll know the full extent of his strategy next season after he gets time to work the team in pre-season. I'm expecting us to play similar to Spurs more than anyone else.
 

Tony Banta

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I’ll think we’ll have a young side, the press seem to be linking us with a lot of under 23 British talent.

Like you say, he wants a hardworking side that runs all day. I have no idea what style he will play, injuries took their toll from late February and we saw a complete contrast from how we played in mid December/January.

This is what he said during a recent end of season interview with MUTV.

What is the number one priority for you during pre-season?

“We want to get everyone fit for when the season starts. We don’t want to lose anyone with injuries. But there are a certain set of principles to say ‘this is the way we want to play’ and we can agree on, and find a system we feel comfortable in and just go from there.”
 

Bastian

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That was quite often a 442 if not always. With two prolific strikers (once SAF finally settled on Yorke and Cole) and an absolutely world class midfield, supported by a world class centre back in Stam, a world class GK, and top class professionals at full back and partnering CB (Ronny).

@AgentP @LawCharltonBest
Yes, man management, inspiring the players is of course enormously important. I'm not sure if he has that in his locker, maybe easier when it comes to young players if there isn't a pre-established faulty dynamic in the dressing room. But leaving that aside for a while, I'm curious as to what his actual tactical setup will be, and how he instructs the players to approach games more often than not. He's talked a lot about the United way and for the most part, I would expect him to try to be very positive in most games, occasionally being pragmatic against obviously better sides.

I don't think it's a binary choice either, man-motivator or tactician. You need to be both really. And if you're not a tactician, that needs to be an expertise within your coaching staff. You can give players a certain amount of freedom when they are fully committed and complete professionals, otherwise it is quite likely to backfire. To have a team full of those is probably quite rare I'd guess.

@Tony Banta
Yeah this is interesting - finding a tactic that suits the players as opposed to having a clear idea of how he wants to play and building a team that can handle that. I suspect it's a bit of both, not least because we cannot just shift everyone and buy a whole new team. But I still wonder if he's got specific ideas other than outrunning the other team and showing more fight. I mean, there are two elite managers at the top of the league currently and they've both got very clear ideas on how they want their teams to play.
 

Bastian

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I think this is a lot more interesting now that Pogba is likely off. And Lukaku.

Ole can actually create a team that deploys width and pace and works hard all over the pitch with wingers, two strikers or an actual #10 and a functional midfield with a clearly defined role.

I think those players leaving is a blessing, allowing for tactical flexibility. Still need to recruit in a lot of positions.
 

Grande

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Like Klopp, he isn’t that concerned if we run the most, as long as we sprint the most. He’s also a work ethic buff and more concerned with positive psychology than our three previous managers.

He is known to be a very good motivator/man-manager, and when it comes to tactics, he is tactically very astute, but perhaps better on pragmatic tactics than strategic tactics (more Mourinho, Ferguson and Ancelotti than Van Gaal, Pep and Klopp.) He has steadily developped a playing style based on speedy and technical players alternating high and low press, and seeking direct route first, possession second.

The fantastic period from december to february, he probably showed brilliant motivational man- and group-management and good strategical tactics.

When players and play fell apart from march to may, it was clear he had a group of players not suited to his strategical aims, and with extremely vulnerable confidence (like Van Gaal and Mourinho also pointed out). So his motivational work fell through, his main strategy didn’t work but his pragmatic tactics to accomodate for that where often spot on: Like we saw, we would often start of well, even against Barca, or do better after a sub/change, but then things deteriorated gradually or if we let in a cheap goal/missed a few sitters.
 

Thiagoal

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I've no idea what style Ole wants us to play tbh! I thought it was fast paced and pressing yet we then re-sign our slowest immobile attacker on a long term deal?
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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I think fitness and pace is the foundation to everything. When you're tired - and it was evident that we tired a lot the second half of games, we get sloppy, not only on the ball, but off the ball too. That led to misplaced passes, defensive lapses, non-existent pressing, etc.

Going forward, if we do that, and as you said, it's something Ole is working on a lot in training, then we can work on tactics.

Not too sure who's seen the film 'Coach Carter', but as soon as he takes over the basketball team, he recongnises that the players have talent, but they're losing games due to their lack of fitness.

I believe we fell off because we got tired after a few games of intense work. If we're able to press for most of the game like the City's and Liverpool's of this world then, although we need to add more quality, we will start grinding out more wins, in my opinon.

As far as tactics got, I'd go with a 4222, which Ole has experimented with, more notably against PSG and Arsenal.

Rashford Yedder
Fernandes Matic Fred Lingard
Shaw Maguire Lindelof Wan-Bissaka
De Gea
 

passing-wind

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It's a lose lose situation, supposedly some fans will say Ole didn't have enough time and his own players to implement a style. The current make up of the team is consistent of failures and weak minded individuals that was the concensus at the end of last season.

Despite finishing the league with relegation form, we will have exactly the same spine of players next season. Personally I don't see how Solskjaer can implement any changes to the dynamics of play with exactly the same squad. Our midfield was already below required quality last season with Herrera, Pogba, Matic, It's pretty much a guarantee that we are going into next season worse off in this area. Mata is a year older and Lingard is incapable of improving so our right wing options are additionally worse off.

I reckon we will be forced to surrender possession to the opposition (similar to the seasons end) and play one dimensional counter attacking system.
 

Saf94

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It's a lose lose situation, supposedly some fans will say Ole didn't have enough time and his own players to implement a style. The current make up of the team is consistent of failures and weak minded individuals that was the concensus at the end of last season.

Despite finishing the league with relegation form, we will have exactly the same spine of players next season. Personally I don't see how Solskjaer can implement any changes to the dynamics of play with exactly the same squad. Our midfield was already below required quality last season with Herrera, Pogba, Matic, It's pretty much a guarantee that we are going into next season worse off in this area. Mata is a year older and Lingard is incapable of improving so our right wing options are additionally worse off.

I reckon we will be forced to surrender possession to the opposition (similar to the seasons end) and play one dimensional counter attacking system.
It’s very simple. You can’t play attacking football when you defend super deep. You can’t play a high line without defenders comfortable bringing the ball out and leaving space behind. We sign a cb and an rb, we play a high line, we dominate possession and we attack with more thrust because we aren’t so tired from having to run all the way up and down the pitch to defend the edge of our box.

That’s literally the simplest explanation for how we can transform this team with minimal signings. There’s 100 other ways to do it too. If you can’t see any possible way we improve with the same spine then you’re just not trying
 

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The thing with fitness and 'running', is the players have to know they're dealing with a top coach - Klopp, Guardiola, Pochettino can inspire work-rate because their players know that they're very good managers.

They have a footballing brand and tactical approach that is more than just 'running a lot' - and so, the players become inspired and naturally 'run a lot' in order to fulfill the tactics that are enjoyable for them to play within.

If the tactics and coaching are below what they've experienced before - as they will be for most of the players in the Utd first 11 - I think it becomes very difficult to inspire that work-rate throughout a season.

And I don't think that's the players being lazy - I just think it's human nature.

I think, to be honest, that Ole's most comfortable in the PL playing counter-attacking footy, and I think that's what we'll see more and more of during his time as Utd manager.
 

Gasolin

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The thing with fitness and 'running', is the players have to know they're dealing with a top coach - Klopp, Guardiola, Pochettino can inspire work-rate because their players know that they're very good managers.

They have a footballing brand and tactical approach that is more than just 'running a lot' - and so, the players become inspired and naturally 'run a lot' in order to fulfill the tactics that are enjoyable for them to play within.

If the tactics and coaching are below what they've experienced before - as they will be for most of the players in the Utd first 11 - I think it becomes very difficult to inspire that work-rate throughout a season.

And I don't think that's the players being lazy - I just think it's human nature.

I think, to be honest, that Ole's most comfortable in the PL playing counter-attacking footy, and I think that's what we'll see more and more of during his time as Utd manager.
Then you are wrong for me, the first games clearly showed how Ole wanted to play + again, I don't know why this is so hard, it's easy to check how his teams at Molde were playing when he took them over. There are tons of people who have analyzed how Ole sets up a team, so for me, his tactical side is rather clear. And he's not a counter attacking side only guy.
 

AJ10

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Then you are wrong for me, the first games clearly showed how Ole wanted to play + again, I don't know why this is so hard, it's easy to check how his teams at Molde were playing when he took them over. There are tons of people who have analyzed how Ole sets up a team, so for me, his tactical side is rather clear. And he's not a counter attacking side only guy.
Its easier to make stuff up.
 

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He’s clearly buying for pace, all around the pitch.

It really depends on who we finally sign this summer and who leaves.

If I had to bet, I would guess (like everyone else in football) that he wants to transition the team to a high press 4-3-3 which morphs into a 4-1-4-1 in our defensive half. Not easy when you consider we have three slow midfielders (Matic, McTominay, Pogba - good pace but not “quick”) and one of the laziest wingers I’ve ever seen in Martial. I suppose Fred and Andreas are options, but recent form indicates they aren’t much more than squad players.

In this system, he’ll need high work rate and a lot of cover from the wingers and striker.

If we actually close on Fernandes, I see him replacing Matic in the midfield 3 with McTominay sliding into Matic’s spot. Matic looked slow and old and ready for Serie A.

We are miles away from actually getting all the players necessary to play this style, so unless Tuanzebe and Greenwood can step up, it’s going to be a bumpy season.
 

romufc

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He’s clearly buying for pace, all around the pitch.

It really depends on who we finally sign this summer and who leaves.

If I had to bet, I would guess (like everyone else in football) that he wants to transition the team to a high press 4-3-3 which morphs into a 4-1-4-1 in our defensive half. Not easy when you consider we have three slow midfielders (Matic, McTominay, Pogba - good pace but not “quick”) and one of the laziest wingers I’ve ever seen in Martial. I suppose Fred and Andreas are options, but recent form indicates they aren’t much more than squad players.

In this system, he’ll need high work rate and a lot of cover from the wingers and striker.

If we actually close on Fernandes, I see him replacing Matic in the midfield 3 with McTominay sliding into Matic’s spot. Matic looked slow and old and ready for Serie A.

We are miles away from actually getting all the players necessary to play this style, so unless Tuanzebe and Greenwood can step up, it’s going to be a bumpy season.

Totally agree, the squad is not suited to what Ole wants to play. Playing pressing football means you need quick CB's.

I am not looking forward to this season, same as last year in my eyes.
 

Jordan_mufc

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Tbh I think the critics of his tactical nous are forgetting some of our best performances last season.

Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham away. To an extent, PSG away (there were periods in that game where we were in complete control, PSG on the back foot)

The man knows what he's doing. Time to let him shine.
 

DSG

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Tbh I think the critics of his tactical nous are forgetting some of our best performances last season.

Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham away. To an extent, PSG away (there were periods in that game where we were in complete control, PSG on the back foot)

The man knows what he's doing. Time to let him shine.
I agree with this, in general. In fact, during his blistering run of form, the pundits all hailed his tactical nous.

People keep talking about wingers (which is true), but in a high press 4-3-3, you need three midfielders that cover lots of ground, and very quickly. Jose preferred power and strength in those midfield 3, so he could sit deep and soak up pressure, pack the middle of the pitch, then hit on the counter.

Once the high press is broken by the opposition, the front three basically fall back, the back line defenders play a high line to compress the space, allowing those three quick midfielders to win balls in tight spaces (a poor trap, a less than perfect pass) whenever the opposing side tries to break the lines. We really only have one CB that can play a high line, Lindelof. Bailly is fast, but too accident prone.

The reason I say it will take time to convert the side is that he has potentially 2-3 CMs to buy, a CB and you could argue another winger or two. Our midfield just isn't built to play this way.

I have faith in Ole. But I do think it will take 2-3 transfer windows to get the players we need. Patience.
 

dove

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I think fitness and pace is the foundation to everything. When you're tired - and it was evident that we tired a lot the second half of games, we get sloppy, not only on the ball, but off the ball too. That led to misplaced passes, defensive lapses, non-existent pressing, etc.

Going forward, if we do that, and as you said, it's something Ole is working on a lot in training, then we can work on tactics.

Not too sure who's seen the film 'Coach Carter', but as soon as he takes over the basketball team, he recongnises that the players have talent, but they're losing games due to their lack of fitness.

I believe we fell off because we got tired after a few games of intense work. If we're able to press for most of the game like the City's and Liverpool's of this world then, although we need to add more quality, we will start grinding out more wins, in my opinon.

As far as tactics got, I'd go with a 4222, which Ole has experimented with, more notably against PSG and Arsenal.

Rashford Yedder
Fernandes Matic Fred Lingard
Shaw Maguire Lindelof Wan-Bissaka
De Gea
We always looked like this, from the first minute. If we were good in the first half but started to struggle in the second half, I would agree it's because of fitness issues. But seeing how we struggle from the first minute, I think it's tactics combined with some crap players more than anything.
 

Enigma_87

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So for you all those people are just lying? Even when they use games footage to showcase their analysis?
I think he was rather agreeing with you ;)

We're yet to see how we will set up and what the approach would be. United and Premiership is whole different kettle compared to Molde.

Key to being successful considering we don't have the best team in the league is to flexible and mesh his approach against bottom half sides and the top dogs.

We're miles off trying to establish a common approach against all teams ala Liverpool and City.
 

Lee565

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Considering how awful our wing options are and how woeful we have been in the transfer window with little faith in the club to make any real quality signings to fit into the first team aside from maybe a cb, I hope we now keep lukaku and pogba because of the lack of quality that will replace them.

352 in attack

------rashford--lukaku
---------------pogba
Shaw---fred---mctominay--dalot
------new cb---lindelof---awb
(Hopefully)

442 defend
-------rashford--lukaku
Fred--pogba--mctominay-dalot
Shaw--new cb--lindelof--awb
 

Web of Bissaka

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So far it's just speculation. Putting it aside...
Soon we'll know -- the first pre-season game, about 1-2 days left, timezones applied.

Most likely the first indication how Ole really really really set-up his tactics and style.
I wouldn't put much hope into it 100% though since everything can change at the season start.
 

Rozay

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We can’t be a high pressing team with Matic and Pogba in the midfield. We need to pair Pogba with two runners for that to work.
 

Krisbijoy

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We can’t be a high pressing team with Matic and Pogba in the midfield. We need to pair Pogba with two runners for that to work.
Was just about to say this , all these formations would be overrun in midfield by pacy opposition AMs if we have Matic in the holding role. The ball playing CBs will be quickly exposed and be busy dealing with this while the attackers will get a free run behind the last line as our FBs also bomb forward. The only way that works is if we have a destroyer protecting the back four so that the likes of Pogba/Bruno etc can have a the space/freedom to operate in.
 

Bastian

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I think it's already becoming evident that we can't go through the season with this formation of 4231. The #10 aren't creative, we have a left sided winger on the right flank and have two strikers interchanging on the left and up front, relying on a relatively pedestrian left back offering an attacking outlet on the left, who is now injured btw.

Outside of deficiencies in general coaching and preparation - that are surely many - I'd be interested in seeing us pursuing a more boring (on paper, hardly in reality) but maybe more efficient 532.

-------------------Dave
------Lindelof--Tuanzebe--Maguire
AWB-------------------------------Young (now that Shaw is injured)
------McTom---Matic/Fred--Pogba
--Rashford/Greenwood---Martial/James

This allows Maguire to push up more in possession, having a quick (and aerially capable) Tuanzebe covering him. Having two actual midfielders of course unleashes Pogba to do more probing in attack and we'd be relying on two forwards doing a lot of hassling from the front.
 

Bastian

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I think he's going to be let down by the suits and be stuck with too many players who can't/won't move the way he wants. We'll look good when players are fit, but will go to pieces when injuries take their toll.
Seems to be spot on in hindsight, though Ole does not help himself.

I still think that the 532 could be an option that suits the players he has. We've got 3 good centre backs, two of whom like to push up and play a bit. Axel's got the pace to cover them. Maybe Wan-Bissaka isn't best served by that formation, but he'd get more of a chance to develop his attacking contribution. We haven't really got a real winger besides James and the #10s aren't really functional. We'd still need to throw in either Matic or Fred (personally, I'd prefer Matic) and allow Pogba to probe and float around more. Or we could even give Garner a chance seeing as we don't need a mega defensive screen ahead of the backline. Rashford and Martial up top, interchanging. Maybe James could be part of that equation, definitely Greenwood.

Definitely think that formation, or the 433, is more suitable to the players available than the 4231 that we've seen is toothless for this set of players.
 

Bastian

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A bump is in order. Finally tried out something other than 4231. Playing 3 at the back suits us way better. And when Tuanzebe is fit we'll actually have pace in the backline to cover for the slower centre backs.

Hopefully this wasn't just a case of dealing with Liverpool's full backs. Against more defensive teams I could see Maguire having more of a role in our build up and maybe even Lindelof if he can manage it - and it's not like we're blessed with midfield talent.