Reality Bites...

jojojo

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...and frankly, it sucks.

I’ve had a happy football summer, happier than most United fans anyway. I put this down to the fact that I’ve largely ignored the transfer speculation. I’ve even ignored most of the contract renewals and the issue of departures, though that’s been harder.

But now we’ve announced Alex Greenwood is leaving, and frankly it sucks.

It’s told me something I didn’t want to know about United, and about its women’s team, and it’s told me something I didn’t want to know about myself as a United fan. Even if in reality, I always knew it.

Casey Stoney said we were building a team ready to compete at the top level in 3/5 years time. I liked that. I liked that we brought a lot of our own young players back, poached a few local players, snagged a couple of exciting prospects from rivals, and hired someone widely respected and with massive experience of the women’s game as manager. We had a great first season relying on those principles.

Our summer recruitment might not have been the most exciting, but it made sense for where we’re at. Even the departures made sense – for the young players who needed matches as well as for us – even though I was a bit sad to see some good prospects go. I thought I’d come to terms with the idea of short contracts, but I honestly thought we would only lose players for reasons beyond our control.

Now, maybe Alex Greenwood’s departure really does come into the category of “beyond our control.” Lyon are at the pinnacle of club football, she must be delighted to get that offer. But somewhere in the back of my thoughts comes a question: how hard did we try to keep her? Did we at least match the money on offer, even if we couldn’t match the immediate trophy prospects? I guess we may never know the answer, but it actually sucks to have to ask it.

Which is where reality sets in and frankly it’s like a bucket of cold water. After the innocent joy of watching United Women play last season, suddenly we’re looking at the facts of football life. I suspect we didn’t even match the financial offer, whether because of the FA rules on wages, or because of our team budget (including any issues it might create with other squad members). Which means the idea of steady progress or, as Casey Stoney described it, the “we crawl, we walk, we jog and then we run” mantra, has just had this Alex Greenwood shaped hole driven through it.

Of course, I already knew what this means about where we sit in the women’s football pecking order. But that’s where my attitude as a United fan kicks in, I want us to spend money to keep our best players. I don’t mind that we aren’t chasing after the WWC winning players, or fighting Lyon for the signing of Nikita Parris - well I do mind, but I ignore that feeling because I know it's unreasonable.

However, it turns out that I mind a lot about us losing one of our best players, and it reminds me of just how fragile all our plans can be. It makes me look at some our other players, the ones with high potential, and the ones who are already top class, with trepidation as well as hope.

I guess that for the future of the women’s game, it’s a good sign that I’m actually so pissed off about this. Football needs the ability to annoy and frustrate, as well as delight, if it’s to build the kind of fierce loyalty that makes us spend our money on tickets and travel, or go to a match on a wet Wednesday in Leigh. That doesn’t make the feeling any better though.

---------

TLDR

Losing a good player sucks.
 

macheda14

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On our climb up to the top we're always going to lose players to teams that are better than us. It happens all across the sport. We've been lucky enough in the men's side not to have it as much, but due to our lowly standing in the women's league I expect it to happen a good few times over the next few years. Perhaps if we are hovering around near the top of the league with a still obvious forward momentum players will want to stay. However, currently (even though we do show a huge amount of ambition) there would be no amount of money or effort to stop a player wanting to move from a newly promoted team to the Champions of Europe.
 

Siorac

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I guess it has to be a bit... vexing to know that United, the club, could have paid whatever Lyon offered without it being a noticeable item on the budget.
 

Dargonk

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It was always likely to happen. The team has only been around for a single season, and wasn't even in the top division last year. Playing on the men team's reputation is only going to get you so far. In the end we are not a major player as yet in the women's football, so can't expect every player to not want to move to bigger and better teams. As long as we are progressively improving, and working our way forward, that is all that matters right now.
 

Grande

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It sure sucks! I remember when Mark Hughes was whisked away to Barca in the eighties. Wilkins and Jordan had already gone to Milan, and I started to come to terms with the fact that United was a small fish in a pond where other clubs could do the fishing. Coming from Norway, also following a local team, I was used to that: The ambivalence of a player doing great, because of the near certainty it would mean that player leaving before next season. This is the norm of the football world. Among the worlds wildly rough estimate of five million teams, only about five to ten teams seldom has this experience. Ronaldo going to Madrid in 2009 was seldom enough to remind us how extremely priviliged we have been as Man United supporters.

As you point out, the short contracts, and the huge variations at this point in how much money teams invest in women’s teams, makes it even more insecure. But a team winning a lower league division and merely losing one of it’s top players is still not bad in the bigger picture.

That picture of course sucks. As a fan, I sometimes catch my self thinking - why don’t we revert to the laws of slave labour ... Ronaldo or Greenwood could never leave! But as you point out - it hurts to have a heart less grown up than the brain.

We shouldn’t stop asking the essential (for us) question, though: What does the club/Glazers mean by ‘aiming to reach the top’? Will they put their money where their mouths are to keep the Alex Greenwoods and Paul Pogbas? To get the Dybalas and the Parrises?

I’m all for Stoney’s and Solskjær’s ways of building from within, but they will both need oomph from above to steadily improve, to reach the long term goals as well. Right now, there are questions to answer for Woodward about both our top flight teams.
 

redshaw

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We're 1 year in and have a long way to go as does the English WSL. Lyon are light years ahead.

With the women's game there's pioneers and key people in the struggle for establishing the women's game that have more weight than any top club or manager in the men's game. You hear it in the interviews.
 

Litch

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Might have been further on if Utd hadn't dragged its heels establishing a women's team....
 

jojojo

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Lyon are indeed the big fish in this story, I mentioned just how big a deal they are in the "Greenwood to Lyon" thread.

On the immediate issue of Alex leaving, as I said, there may have been nothing we could do about it. If she wants a CL trophy, Lyon is where to play and as she'll be 26 this summer, now is the time. I don't begrudge her wanting that. I don't even begrudge her wanting to live in Lyon for a while.

This is more about United, and me wishing that I could trust the club. I want to think that the lack of action at the Cliff is a good sign, because maybe our plans are now too grand for that site and we'll do something at Carrington or somewhere else instead. I want to think that if Galton or whoever has a great season, or James fulfils her potential then they'll be ours next season as well.

Like I said though - I think my reaction is probably a good sign for the women's team :smirk: If I can be this annoyed by the idea of losing a player (or to be more precise by the fear that we might not even have tried to keep her) then that's a good thing for the future. I'm not proud of the fact that part of my reaction was "what did we offer her?" but I am conscious that we're late arrivals at this party, and catching up is hard if you lose the players you need to keep.
 

Maestro14

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No worries
This is what it feels like to not support a big club, I guess. I can't imagine United/Stoney didn't do everything they could to persuade her to stay. But on the women's side, Lyon are the kings (queens?) of Europe and we're just a fledgling team. They can offer her a much higher level of competition, and maybe a much higher salary too - I don't know if we have a wage structure, but if we do I imagine we'd have to break it significantly to match what Lyon could offer. Even if we have a similar trajectory to City in their first few years, we probably won't be able to compete on the pitch with the likes of Lyon by the time Greenwood retires from the game. This is just a reminder of how far we still have to go, but hopefully this motivates the club to push harder rather than dissuade them.

Anyway, it's not that different from last season when we were recruiting players from Liverpool, City, Arsenal's top prospect, Doncaster Rovers' top goalscorer etc. based only on the name "Manchester United". It's just that for now, we're not on top of the totem pole which is quite unusual as a United fan. I'm not worried, we've arguably signed a better player in Groenen and this squad has the potential to do well in the WSL next season.
 

Lightbringer

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I’ve had a happy football summer, happier than most United fans anyway. I put this down to the fact that I’ve largely ignored the transfer speculation. I’ve even ignored most of the contract renewals and the issue of departures, though that’s been harder.

But now we’ve announced Alex Greenwood is leaving, and frankly it sucks.

It’s told me something I didn’t want to know about United, and about its women’s team, and it’s told me something I didn’t want to know about myself as a United fan. Even if in reality, I always knew it.

Casey Stoney said we were building a team ready to compete at the top level in 3/5 years time. I liked that. I liked that we brought a lot of our own young players back, poached a few local players, snagged a couple of exciting prospects from rivals, and hired someone widely respected and with massive experience of the women’s game as manager. We had a great first season relying on those principles.

Our summer recruitment might not have been the most exciting, but it made sense for where we’re at. Even the departures made sense – for the young players who needed matches as well as for us – even though I was a bit sad to see some good prospects go. I thought I’d come to terms with the idea of short contracts, but I honestly thought we would only lose players for reasons beyond our control.

Now, maybe Alex Greenwood’s departure really does come into the category of “beyond our control.” Lyon are at the pinnacle of club football, she must be delighted to get that offer. But somewhere in the back of my thoughts comes a question: how hard did we try to keep her? Did we at least match the money on offer, even if we couldn’t match the immediate trophy prospects? I guess we may never know the answer, but it actually sucks to have to ask it.

Which is where reality sets in and frankly it’s like a bucket of cold water. After the innocent joy of watching United Women play last season, suddenly we’re looking at the facts of football life. I suspect we didn’t even match the financial offer, whether because of the FA rules on wages, or because of our team budget (including any issues it might create with other squad members). Which means the idea of steady progress or, as Casey Stoney described it, the “we crawl, we walk, we jog and then we run” mantra, has just had this Alex Greenwood shaped hole driven through it.

Of course, I already knew what this means about where we sit in the women’s football pecking order. But that’s where my attitude as a United fan kicks in, I want us to spend money to keep our best players. I don’t mind that we aren’t chasing after the WWC winning players, or fighting Lyon for the signing of Nikita Parris - well I do mind, but I ignore that feeling because I know it's unreasonable.

However, it turns out that I mind a lot about us losing one of our best players, and it reminds me of just how fragile all our plans can be. It makes me look at some our other players, the ones with high potential, and the ones who are already top class, with trepidation as well as hope.

I guess that for the future of the women’s game, it’s a good sign that I’m actually so pissed off about this. Football needs the ability to annoy and frustrate, as well as delight, if it’s to build the kind of fierce loyalty that makes us spend our money on tickets and travel, or go to a match on a wet Wednesday in Leigh. That doesn’t make the feeling any better though.
What an excellent post and summary. I was going to post something more lenghty tonight, but your post really beat me to it and it was more articulate also :-)

Actually, I read on twitter, facebook, and instagram: "Meh, its only the womens team" etc and I became angry about it, and it shows I am already well invested in the womens team, which is good. It really stung to see this news, as I had hoped Greenwood would be the cornerstone of this team for many years to come.

The thing I agree with the most is the money issue. If the departure of Greenwood could have been avoided by raising her salary, I think it should have been done pretty much at all costs. Alex was the face of this team publicly, the best player on the team and the captain. She always showed up with a 100% attitude and got the rest of the squad to follow. Being a new team having a profile player like that is key to connecting with fans, and growing the fanbase. Having a lioness was also great for marketing etc.

Thats why I reckon the loss of her is immense. I just hope this was not a sign of lack of investment in the womens team, thats what bothered me the most as soon as I heard it. I also did not expect us to break the bank for every star player available, but going out of our way to keep Greenwood would have been a completely different investment.

If Greenwood left because she wanted to win the Champions League and go play on the best team in the world, fair play to her. As long as it did not have anything to do with money, I can live with it, although it sucks. Of course she will get more money in Lyon, but if she wanted the challenge, United could have matched or better their contract offer and it Alex would have still left.

I just hope this is not a start of bigger teams picking us apart. I was naive and had hoped that Manchester Uniteds reputation would prevent these situations, but that was just wishful thinking.

I think its also crucial for United to be competitive from the get go and make steady progress towards to the top, with this move I fear this will be much harder to accomplish.

There was/is great optimism about the womens team, and to me that momentum has been halted by this move, which is concerning, because United needed to continue riding that wave as far as possible!
 
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jojojo

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Thats why I reckon the loss of her is immense. I just hope this was not a sign of lack of investment in the womens team, thats what bothered me the most as soon as I heard it.
Maybe we did match their financial offer, I'd like to think so.

That said, even if we didn't match them, then to be fair to United, the FA salary cap system might have stopped us. We may already be on the budget limit that we agreed at the end of last season. I doubt we expected Lyon to come in for Alex, they don't have an obvious weakness at leftback and I don't think this was planned prior to the World Cup. Even if the club was willing to see a bid for our captain as a special case and respond quickly, the FA system might not.
I just hope this is not a start of bigger teams picking us apart. I was naive and had hoped that Manchester Uniteds reputation would prevent these situations, but that was just wishful thinking.
They don't (yet!) come bigger than Lyon so if we only lose players to them, we'll be doing well. If we find ourselves a couple of years down the line getting picked apart by other teams then we'll have messed up. Short contracts being standard in the women's game or not :D
 

Nick7

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Agreed. I was actually shocked at how disappointed I was when I read she was going. Really enjoyed watching the women last year and that sale kinda knocked me for six.

I just didn’t think it would happen, I guess I was living in ignorance just thinking oh we're Man United our best players just don't leave.
 

Grande

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Agreed. I was actually shocked at how disappointed I was when I read she was going. Really enjoyed watching the women last year and that sale kinda knocked me for six.

I just didn’t think it would happen, I guess I was living in ignorance just thinking oh we're Man United our best players just don't leave.
A soberimg experience indeed.

Then again, it might also be the opportunity for Katie Zelem, our player of the year and playmaker, to step up into the leading role alongside Jackie Groenen and in frront of Hayley Ladd.
 

Andersons Dietician

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She, Greenwood is a big loss. I’m reminded of that time Fergie said of Charlie Adams. “ did you see those corners, they are worth 10mil alone” and Greenwood has a wand of a left foot on setplays. It is however what it is, we might have the recognisable name but as it stands we are still mino’s in the woman’s game and building a team.

Just keep telling yourself that in that team we have a player who from my limited knowledge of the woman’s game looks like she could be one of the best players around and that player is Lauren James so hopefully we can keep a hold of her until she finds her feet properly in the game. It’ll take time but I honestly think we’ll be up there with the big clubs soon enough.
 

Danish Wizard

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It's a big loss, but off course you say yes when a team like Lyon comes calling. With all respect, Lyon has been in a league of their own for the last five years. To get the chance to play for them, fight for the league title and Champions League every year, plus a good paycheck, you say yes.

Hopefully United will work towards getting to the level of Lyon, but things takes time. The team was established last year. It will take a couple of years to really establish us in the top 2-3 in England, and then the same in Europe.

Good luck to Greenwood. Who knows, she might be back here in a couple of years time.