This season: style, limitations, thoughts

TheReligion · Aug 10, 2019

Essentially I feel United want to employ a high counter press style which results in forcing mistakes from the opposition, getting a quick turnover, and instantly punishing them.

The two issues we currently have with this style, and I think we see this season, are our options. The system requires the following to work;

1) high work rate players - we can and should have improved this

2) creativity, quick thinking and good passers in central areas - we only have Pogba

3) clinical finishing - all of our forwards are hit and miss in this area

For it to work at United Pogba needed someone else to work with him who could take the ball on the turnover and quickly play a key pass. As it is teams will just crowd Pogba and our turnover will go to waste.

In addition the forwards have to take their chances and as much as I love Rashford and Martial, neither have yet been as clinical as Lukaku. Now Lukaku moving was the right thing as whilst he had the finishing he didn't have the all around high press workrate both on and off the ball that's needed for the system.

In view of the above the season now hinges on a few things. One of our midfield players steps up a level and shares the role Pogba will take. This seems unlikely as our second most creative player is Mata and sadly he's too slow to utilise quick turnovers. Mctominay and Fred maybe..?

And lastly we get a tune from our forwards who need to be more clinical.

On a side note what I do think will help is Harry Maguire. He can pick a pass and can turn defence into attack quickly. He should help the system and is an ideal fit in my opinion given his slickness on the ball.

kundalini · Aug 10, 2019

TheReligion said:
Essentially I feel United want to employ a high counter press style which results in forcing mistakes from the opposition, getting a quick turnover, and instantly punishing them.

The two issues we currently have with this style, and I think we see this season, are our options. The system requires the following to work;

1) high work rate players - we can and should have improved this

2) creativity, quick thinking and good passers in central areas - we only have Pogba

3) clinical finishing - all of our forwards are hit and miss in this area

For it to work at United Pogba needed someone else to work with him who could take the ball on the turnover and quickly play a key pass. As it is teams will just crowd Pogba and our turnover will go to waste.

In addition the forwards have to take their chances and as much as I love Rashford and Martial, neither have yet been as clinical as Lukaku. Now Lukaku moving was the right thing as whilst he had the finishing he didn't have the all around high press workrate both on and off the ball that's needed for the system.

In view of the above the season now hinges on a few things. One of our midfield players steps up a level and shares the role Pogba will take. This seems unlikely as our second most creative player is Mata and sadly he's too slow to utilise quick turnovers. Mctominay and Fred maybe..?

And lastly we get a tune from our forwards who need to be more clinical.

On a side note what I do think will help is Harry Maguire. He can pick a pass and can turn defence into attack quickly. He should help the system and is an ideal fit in my opinion given his slickness on the ball.

1) We have a small number of players that naturally work hard. We have a few whose tendency is to put in less effort than your average PL player in their position (Martial, Pogba and to a lesser extent, Shaw). For the system to be a success, we need everyone to work hard on a regular basis. Martial did appear to be putting in far more effort in pre-season games.

2) A high counter press style, in addition to a fast counter-attack, reduces the need for creativity, as in both scenarios, the opposition defence isn't set. We need players to win the ball then either pass it early or drive towards goal if the space is open. I don't see why Pogba is considered important in this system. The likes of Lingard, McTominay and Fred, all tend to release the ball quickly.

3) Martial is a good finisher but doesn't make enough effort to get into dangerous positions from which to score relatively easy goals. Rashford prefers the spectacular to the tap-in. Greenwood is the only player we have that looks like he could find space in the penalty area on a regular basis. Lingard has a tendency to freeze when presented with a straight-forward chance. Can Solskjaer find a way to get Greenwood on the pitch for 1500 to 2000 mins in the PL ? Will Martial and Rashford take any notice of Solskjaer's advice ? Dan James put in a number of decent crosses during pre-season that came to nothing, as our star forwards hadn't bothered to run towards the 6 yard box.

If our core group for PL matches is: De Gea, Wan-Bissaka, Shaw, Maguire, Lindelof, McTominay, Pogba, Pereira, Lingard, James, Greenwood, Rashford, Martial with Tuanzebe, Gomes and Chong as regular back-ups, then I think we should be a decent team, though there are concerns about rather too many of those players. We may be in trouble if Jones, Smalling, Matic, Young, Mata or Sanchez are starting a lot of PL matches. I'm not sure about whether Dalot, Fred and Bailly suit this system or not, each has clear strengths but also serious weaknesses too.

TheReligion · Aug 10, 2019

kundalini said:
1) We have a small number of players that naturally work hard. We have a few whose tendency is to put in less effort than your average PL player in their position (Martial, Pogba and to a lesser extent, Shaw). For the system to be a success, we need everyone to work hard on a regular basis. Martial did appear to be putting in far more effort in pre-season games.

2) A high counter press style, in addition to a fast counter-attack, reduces the need for creativity, as in both scenarios, the opposition defence isn't set. We need players to win the ball then either pass it early or drive towards goal if the space is open. I don't see why Pogba is considered important in this system. The likes of Lingard, McTominay and Fred, all tend to release the ball quickly.

3) Martial is a good finisher but doesn't make enough effort to get into dangerous positions from which to score relatively easy goals. Rashford prefers the spectacular to the tap-in. Greenwood is the only player we have that looks like he could find space in the penalty area on a regular basis. Lingard has a tendency to freeze when presented with a straight-forward chance. Can Solskjaer find a way to get Greenwood on the pitch for 1500 to 2000 mins in the PL ? Will Martial and Rashford take any notice of Solskjaer's advice ? Dan James put in a number of decent crosses during pre-season that came to nothing, as our star forwards hadn't bothered to run towards the 6 yard box.

If our core group for PL matches is: De Gea, Wan-Bissaka, Shaw, Maguire, Lindelof, McTominay, Pogba, Pereira, Lingard, James, Greenwood, Rashford, Martial with Tuanzebe, Gomes and Chong as regular back-ups, then I think we should be a decent team, though there are concerns about rather too many of those players. We may be in trouble if Jones, Smalling, Matic, Young, Mata or Sanchez are starting a lot of PL matches. I'm not sure about whether Dalot, Fred and Bailly suit this system or not, each has clear strengths but also serious weaknesses too.

Interesting to get another take on it.

For me Pogba is vital to the system as he's the only player we have who can quickly change defence to attack with a single pass (see Spurs and a few games during Oles initial run last season). Whilst others might help break up play they are too slow and inaccurate to pick the right pass. That's my main worry this term unless someone really steps up. It's also why without Pogba we will struggle in my opinion.

I do think Maguire will help with the above though but we can't rely on a centre half to play make in the system.

7even · Aug 10, 2019

kundalini said:
1) We have a small number of players that naturally work hard. We have a few whose tendency is to put in less effort than your average PL player in their position (Martial, Pogba and to a lesser extent, Shaw). For the system to be a success, we need everyone to work hard on a regular basis. Martial did appear to be putting in far more effort in pre-season games.

2) A high counter press style, in addition to a fast counter-attack, reduces the need for creativity, as in both scenarios, the opposition defence isn't set. We need players to win the ball then either pass it early or drive towards goal if the space is open. I don't see why Pogba is considered important in this system. The likes of Lingard, McTominay and Fred, all tend to release the ball quickly.

3) Martial is a good finisher but doesn't make enough effort to get into dangerous positions from which to score relatively easy goals. Rashford prefers the spectacular to the tap-in. Greenwood is the only player we have that looks like he could find space in the penalty area on a regular basis. Lingard has a tendency to freeze when presented with a straight-forward chance. Can Solskjaer find a way to get Greenwood on the pitch for 1500 to 2000 mins in the PL ? Will Martial and Rashford take any notice of Solskjaer's advice ? Dan James put in a number of decent crosses during pre-season that came to nothing, as our star forwards hadn't bothered to run towards the 6 yard box.

If our core group for PL matches is: De Gea, Wan-Bissaka, Shaw, Maguire, Lindelof, McTominay, Pogba, Pereira, Lingard, James, Greenwood, Rashford, Martial with Tuanzebe, Gomes and Chong as regular back-ups, then I think we should be a decent team, though there are concerns about rather too many of those players. We may be in trouble if Jones, Smalling, Matic, Young, Mata or Sanchez are starting a lot of PL matches. I'm not sure about whether Dalot, Fred and Bailly suit this system or not, each has clear strengths but also serious weaknesses too.

1. This is the key and we must learn to press synchronized with our fullbacks moving forward and one of our midfielders helping our attacking players to minimize angles and space.

2. This will work against mid table and top teams but against the bottom half we’re short of creativity up front. Most teams from bottom half who comes to Old Trafford will defend with nine or ten men behave the ball so without any playmaker up front we will struggle to create open chances.

3. Pereira isn’t good enough if we aspire to finish in top four. He’s not even good enough to be a bench warmer if everybody is fit. Sell or loan out. Fred is a much better option to rotate with McTominay.

I don’t like our 4231 formation. I think a 433 suits are squad much better, especially Pogba benefits from a three man midfield. If Ole insist to continue with his 4231 then Pogba’s best position is as a number ten where he can float around and both be part of our build ups, make his patented passes and/or arrive late in the box in a second wave similar to Frank Lampard in his heydays. To release him from major defensive duties will save him energy and that gives us more power when we counter attack.

Crashoutcassius · Aug 10, 2019

TheReligion said:
Essentially I feel United want to employ a high counter press style which results in forcing mistakes from the opposition, getting a quick turnover, and instantly punishing them.

The two issues we currently have with this style, and I think we see this season, are our options. The system requires the following to work;

1) high work rate players - we can and should have improved this

2) creativity, quick thinking and good passers in central areas - we only have Pogba

3) clinical finishing - all of our forwards are hit and miss in this area

For it to work at United Pogba needed someone else to work with him who could take the ball on the turnover and quickly play a key pass. As it is teams will just crowd Pogba and our turnover will go to waste.

In addition the forwards have to take their chances and as much as I love Rashford and Martial, neither have yet been as clinical as Lukaku. Now Lukaku moving was the right thing as whilst he had the finishing he didn't have the all around high press workrate both on and off the ball that's needed for the system.

In view of the above the season now hinges on a few things. One of our midfield players steps up a level and shares the role Pogba will take. This seems unlikely as our second most creative player is Mata and sadly he's too slow to utilise quick turnovers. Mctominay and Fred maybe..?

And lastly we get a tune from our forwards who need to be more clinical.

On a side note what I do think will help is Harry Maguire. He can pick a pass and can turn defence into attack quickly. He should help the system and is an ideal fit in my opinion given his slickness on the ball.

We have high work rate players in rashford lingard James mctominay sanchez Mata. Martial pogba a bit less so. We also have passers like mata and fred. I also think mctominay has improved that bit of his game massively. True re: clinical finishers though, lots of chances fall to rash and lingard as pacy hard workers and they are both poor. Feel martial and Mata are a bit more reliable... credit to martial he is very cool

SAFMUTD · Aug 11, 2019

Crashoutcassius said:
We have high work rate players in rashford lingard James mctominay sanchez Mata. Martial pogba a bit less so. We also have passers like mata and fred. I also think mctominay has improved that bit of his game massively. True re: clinical finishers though, lots of chances fall to rash and lingard as pacy hard workers and they are both poor. Feel martial and Mata are a bit more reliable... credit to martial he is very cool

Its not just pressing, its winning the ball back. Mata is useless for that, too slow and weak to press nevermind to recover posesion.

Vissy · Aug 11, 2019

Our midfield is a bit short in quality, which is probably at least partially at fault as to why we're playing a counterattacking style of football. It's the best way for us to utilize the players we have and still keep an attacking, enterprising brand of football. If we do get better passers and more creativity into our squad over time, it will allow Ole to make changes into the team's playstyle.

Lash · Aug 11, 2019

TheReligion said:
Interesting to get another take on it.

For me Pogba is vital to the system as he's the only player we have who can quickly change defence to attack with a single pass (see Spurs and a few games during Oles initial run last season). Whilst others might help break up play they are too slow and inaccurate to pick the right pass. That's my main worry this term unless someone really steps up. It's also why without Pogba we will struggle in my opinion.

I do think Maguire will help with the above though but we can't rely on a centre half to play make in the system.

Maguire should hopefully help overloading the midfield and creating space for those less creative to receive the ball. That’s a large reason I think he’ll be a big success here. The interesting part for him is how can we limit the exposure to his weaknesses.

TMDaines · Aug 11, 2019

Part of the problem we have had previously is Pogba having to increasingly drop back to the centre backs to receive the ball, due to lack of confidence in passing forward. Hopefully Maguire joining the back line can help that at least. It’s important he is receiving the ball further forward in areas where he has attacking passing options.

AFC NimbleThumb · Aug 11, 2019

With Mata in the side we can’t press from the front, align that with Matic backing up the players for the times the press doesn’t work & we’re absolutely scuppered.

I think it will go a lot like the Milan game, where we press for the first 20 or so & the players drop off quickly.

Someone said it earlier, we only possess a small number of players that actually work hard, & we’ve not bought new attacking players for this season so to expect them to be so much fitter than last seems too optimistic.

Search

Search

This season: style, limitations, thoughts

TheReligion

Abusive

kundalini

Full Member

TheReligion

Abusive

7even

Resident moaner, hypocrite and moron

Crashoutcassius

Full Member

SAFMUTD

New Member

Vissy

New Member

Lash

Full Member

TMDaines

Fun sponge.

AFC NimbleThumb

New Member