We weren't solid defensively, we were playing defensively because our defensive players are shite. Now we have good defensive players, it'll allow United to be more expansive in their play, while maintaining a good defense
"Great teams are built from the back"
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
sglowrider
Thinks the caf is 'wokeish'.
There are different approaches. Have a solid base to build forward or you have a solid spine and then build piece meal.
But they didn't win anything until they sorted their defences.I think it's a myth. The top two teams in England were scoring for fun before they sorted out their defence.
Jimmy_Bond
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Lies, damn lies an statistics. You need both to win a league, but in big games against direct rivals, you won't be be winning many without a top defence, and it only takes one goal to win a game.But the team that scores the most goals is more likely to win the league than the team that concedes the least.
The game versus Chelsea was a case in point. If you swapped the two back fours, we lose that game.
As Ferguson said "great attacks wins games, great defences win leagues." I mean, he won 13 of them. His opinion is worth a trillion of anyone's who is posting on this messageboard.
The Boy
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The defence is crucial in that it goves the players in front more confidence and enables them to play more freely. Utd's biggest problem last season was that noone could rely on the defence and that draws players backwards as games progress and limits risk taking and ceativity further up the pitch.
If this defence carries on like this you will see players like Pogba liberated as there isnt the constant fear that one mistake will lead to a goal.
If this defence carries on like this you will see players like Pogba liberated as there isnt the constant fear that one mistake will lead to a goal.
He'sRaldo
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I think all those teams win due to their defense. Just that nowadays, defense is very structure-oriented and they all have top defensive structures.Agreed, @Damien. Barca, Madrid, City and Livepool are winning trophies recently because of their devastating attack. Their defence are pretty good, but you ask people what those teams are famous for? It's their attack.
It's the same with United under SAF. We had good defence. But we were remembered as a team with resilience wave of attack to win games.
I don't know of why people easily forget this.
Waynne
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In our current situation with a less than desirable midfield and a somewhat Okay front 3, a solid defense is important. I mean you have to be really good in at least one area of the pitch. Currently we look okay to decent (with potential to be great) at the back which is a start.
Leftback99
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Whether SAF said it or not it isn't true. https://www.premierleague.com/news/464218Lies, damn lies an statistics. You need both to win a league, but in big games against direct rivals, you won't be be winning many without a top defence, and it only takes one goal to win a game.
The game versus Chelsea was a case in point. If you swapped the two back fours, we lose that game.
As Ferguson said "great attacks wins games, great defences win leagues." I mean, he won 13 of them. His opinion is worth a trillion of anyone's who is posting on this messageboard.
In one off games against the top teams you won't be winning without a great attack either. Swap attacks, we don't beat Chelsea yesterday.
Sandikan
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We certainly look a lot more secure now in defensive terms, but the midfield will let a lot of chances come to pass, as we saw yesterday.
However, bit by bit we build. I'm hoping McTom, Fred or Perreira really step up.
However, bit by bit we build. I'm hoping McTom, Fred or Perreira really step up.
tomaldinho1
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Although the counter argument for that is Liverpool and City didn't win anything until they sorted their defence. Scoring the most goals a season means nothing if you're not No1.I think it's a myth. The top two teams in England were scoring for fun before they sorted out their defence.
Pep had the luxury of being able to do it all at once whereas Klopp had to do it over a few transfer windows but essentially they did the same thing. Spent a huge amount of money on their back 4 plus keeper and then immediately reaped the rewards.
Nikelesh Reddy
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Great teams need to have terrific quality in every area of the pitch,as simple as that.Great teams need to have a great GK,a solid back 4,a well balanced midfield and a consistent,formidable attacking line up..How much truth is there in this? Because I believe this was a motto SAF had and is something that generally rings true in football. I also suspect it is a mantra Ole is following- that the building of all great teams starts at the back (and takes time).
05/06 was the start of one of SA's greatest rebuilds, when we signed Vidic, Evra and VDS. The next season we signed Carrick, before effectively completing the rebuild with Anderson, Nani, Tevez & Hargreaves.
I know a lot of people were peeved at our transfer dealings, but (and I know this has been said a zillion times already) I really believe this is the start of United's rebuild. Previous transfer windows have seemed a bit square peg, round hole. Sign any talent that is available. I think, by focusing on the defence first and foremost (and hopefully signing DDG to a long term contract) it suggests Ole has a long term vision that he knows it will take time to complete.
The Maguire and AWB signings are eerily similar to the Vidic and Evra signings. Having lost the last three leagues (03-06), Sir Alex rebuilt his next great team and went on to win 3 on the trot- and it all started with signing two solid defenders. Obviously I'm not expecting us to win 3 in a row, just that there are a lot of positives to take from this window.
Great teams are built from the back,and our defence looks much much better now.But our lack of quality/depth in midfield will hurt us this season...
Jimmy_Bond
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It is true. It's all well and good sticking tons of goals past crap teams to boost your "goals for" column, but with a crap defence you'll always lose against the big teams.Whether SAF said it or not it isn't true. https://www.premierleague.com/news/464218
In one off games against the top teams you won't be winning without a great attack either. Swap attacks, we don't beat Chelsea yesterday.
Pep finished 4th in his first season. What did he do next? Spend over £100m on defenders and get 100 points. Klopp's Liverpool were scrapping for 4th place until they spent £75m on a centre half which led to them winning the CL.
There's a reason the greatest manager of all time said it. It's because it's true.
Man City prove the exception to this rule. In no way are Stones and Otamendi great defenders.How much truth is there in this? Because I believe this was a motto SAF had and is something that generally rings true in football. I also suspect it is a mantra Ole is following- that the building of all great teams starts at the back (and takes time).
05/06 was the start of one of SA's greatest rebuilds, when we signed Vidic, Evra and VDS. The next season we signed Carrick, before effectively completing the rebuild with Anderson, Nani, Tevez & Hargreaves.
I know a lot of people were peeved at our transfer dealings, but (and I know this has been said a zillion times already) I really believe this is the start of United's rebuild. Previous transfer windows have seemed a bit square peg, round hole. Sign any talent that is available. I think, by focusing on the defence first and foremost (and hopefully signing DDG to a long term contract) it suggests Ole has a long term vision that he knows it will take time to complete.
The Maguire and AWB signings are eerily similar to the Vidic and Evra signings. Having lost the last three leagues (03-06), Sir Alex rebuilt his next great team and went on to win 3 on the trot- and it all started with signing two solid defenders. Obviously I'm not expecting us to win 3 in a row, just that there are a lot of positives to take from this window.
Leftback99
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It didn't help when he lost the title to Mancini on goal difference in 11/12 after losing 6-1 (we'd have only conceded 27 that season otherwise). Neither did having the best defence in the league help us when we lost out on a CL spot to City in 15/16.It is true. It's all well and good sticking tons of goals past crap teams to boost your "goals for" column, but with a crap defence you'll always lose against the big teams.
Pep finished 4th in his first season. What did he do next? Spend over £100m on defenders and get 100 points. Klopp's Liverpool were scrapping for 4th place until they spent £75m on a centre half which led to them winning the CL.
There's a reason the greatest manager of all time said it. It's because it's true.
Aren't Liverpool and City examples of great teams 'built from the front' anyway? The defence was just the final piece.
worldinmotion66
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Liverpool are on a different level having signed Alisson and Van Dijk.
Man City have spent a fortune on their defence and too many people underestimate the importance of Ederson and Fernandinho in recent years.
Man City have spent a fortune on their defence and too many people underestimate the importance of Ederson and Fernandinho in recent years.
the chameleon
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It’s built from the front or back. As long as all areas get covered. Btw, we did concede the least goals in 15/16 but that wasn’t due to having great defenders, it was because van gaal playing defensively.It didn't help when he lost the title to Mancini on goal difference in 11/12 after losing 6-1 (we'd have only conceded 27 that season otherwise). Neither did having the best defence in the league help us when we lost out on a CL spot to City in 15/16.
Aren't Liverpool and City examples of great teams 'built from the front' anyway? The defence was just the final piece.
This is slightly different, we actually have a decent defence and world class keeper to fall back on. Plus they can play from the back. This will give the rest of the team confidence in going forward and expressing themselves. A part of that is making mistakes, but it will be with shackles off.
I’m hoping we can then build on other positions to iron the deficiencies. But there won’t be a gaping requirement to fix the back 4. Which is a step in the right direction.
Plus, I think it will give players like McTominay, Gomes, Chong, Garner, pereira, Greenwood to come into their own. If, two of them establish themselves as regulars, we will be saving a lot of money and focusing on less areas.
2010/11 Vidic was at the peak of his powers, Van Der Sar was immense too (barring one dropped ball against West Brom at Old Trafford). Evra was only just starting to decline. 2012/13 had veteran Ferdinand as our best defender so agree with that prognosisCity won the league with a pretty okish defence two years ago. Our league wins in 10/11 and 12/13 were with aged and crappy defences. Think I agree with @duffer its not really a important standalone factor.
marktan
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But that's only because they had their attacks sorted first. You can't have one without the other. You need both.Liverpool only started to look really good once the defence of Robertson/Dijk/*Insert Other*/TAA were settled.
City looked a bit shaky at the start last year but once the defence of Zinchenko/Laporte/*Insert Other*/Walker were settled and there was a solid basis they were great again.
I do think there's something in it.
Eddy_JukeZ
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We won the league in 2012-2013 with a weak defense and an amazing attack.It's pretty simple.
No team has won the league with a weak defence and an amazing attack.
Plenty have won it with amazing defences and not great attacks.
Again, anyone who has watched more football then they have spent playing certain videogames will know this.
It's why Barca can sign Neymar, Griezmann, and whoever else they want to partner Messi and Suarez but they'll lose every time they play a real top defence due to the fact that as a defensive unit, they are weak.
Eddy_JukeZ
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The only time under SAF I recall that our defense truly outshone our attack was in 2008-2009 when we had that run of games without conceding a goal.Agreed, @Damien. Barca, Madrid, City and Livepool are winning trophies recently because of their devastating attack. Their defence are pretty good, but you ask people what those teams are famous for? It's their attack.
It's the same with United under SAF. We had good defence. But we were remembered as a team with resilience wave of attack to win games.
I don't know of why people easily forget this.
We only scored 68 goals in the league that season. Lowest in a title win under SAF iirc.
SalfordRed18
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Think people show their footballing IQ when answering this question.
A great defence is the foundation upon which you can build a great team. Having a great defence doesnt necessarily make you a great team, though. It's just a solid start.
People mentioning great teams that had the likes of Ramos, Pepe and Marcelo at the back like it's nothing. Bloody pique and puyol at the back like they don't make a difference.
Put it like this, as football has developed so has the skillset required of a top quality defence. Hence why Smalling, who is one best natural pure defenders out there can't get a game for England or currently united anymore.
A great defence is the foundation upon which you can build a great team. Having a great defence doesnt necessarily make you a great team, though. It's just a solid start.
People mentioning great teams that had the likes of Ramos, Pepe and Marcelo at the back like it's nothing. Bloody pique and puyol at the back like they don't make a difference.
Put it like this, as football has developed so has the skillset required of a top quality defence. Hence why Smalling, who is one best natural pure defenders out there can't get a game for England or currently united anymore.
SalfordRed18
Netflix and avocado, no chill
Well no, out defence was only weak relative to its form in previous seasons. The quality and experience were still there and relative to other premier League teams it was solid enough. That's nots a weak defence, that's a defence not as good as it previously once was, so looks weak to us.We won the league in 2012-2013 with a weak defense and an amazing attack.
Eddy_JukeZ
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We conceded 43 goals.Well no, out defence was only weak relative to its form in previous seasons. The quality and experience were still there and relative to other premier League teams it was solid enough. That's nots a weak defence, that's a defence not as good as it previously once was, so looks weak to us.
Most from the top 4 that season.
Most by a title winner since our 1999-2000 title campaign(and the most since then too).
By all metrics, it was a weak defense for a title winning team.