How witty.
Gay footballers | Czech Republic international Jakub Jankto comes out as gay
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Equating religion to an economic system? Not sure if you're purposely trying to be dense.
Once again these are views people hold dear to them, so calling it a fairly tale is NOT defending that view unless you're braindead and have no idea what rational debate looks like. So I guess you are fine with people calling homosexuality disgusting, black people are lazy, Islam is evil, etc. I mean these are all views and that a person can attempt to defend, but it doesn't make them any less incendiary. Having a baseline level of respect for others doesn't mean you can't defend a position.
There are way too many people trying hard to be Christopher Hitchens. It's amusing.
Nice one
Without bothering to discuss the whole post, which is called out by Mark Robinson anyway, I'd like to know if anyone attacks you here. Because that's when one defends. Has anyone in this thread told you to believe in God? Or even asked if you believe? Then what do you defend? Mocking is an attack and it's really difficult to continue discussing if such obvious things aren't common knowledge.
Not quite sure what to say to these responses. Once again you are trying to give religion a free pass it does not deserve. It is subject to scrutiny just as any other view you can hold or any other institution or group you can join. To equate criticising religion to calling homosexuals disgusting is dishonest and quite frankly disgusting itself. If you degrade homosexuals, blacks or other people based on the way they were born you are a bigot. Quite simple. How is that in any way comparable to pointing out the absurdity of superstition and make-believe? I don't go around around calling people who are religious idiots. And freedom of religion is very important, everyone should be free to practise any faith they want. But if someone wants an honest discussion about the subject I will continue to label it nonsense, fairytales and potentially dangerous and back it up with arguments. If that is offensive to you, then it seems your own position is very weak. Being offended by criticism of what you stand for is an integral part of free speech.
I don't even enjoy discussing or bringing up religion all that much. Even in this thread I merely reponded to someone taking offense at the word fairytale which someone else used. So I don't know why you think in terms of attacking and defending @Tomuś. "to defend a view" is a synonym for arguing a position. It does not literally mean being on the defense.
I don't even enjoy discussing or bringing up religion all that much. Even in this thread I merely reponded to someone taking offense at the word fairytale which someone else used. So I don't know why you think in terms of attacking and defending @Tomuś. "to defend a view" is a synonym for arguing a position. It does not literally mean being on the defense.
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I am not religious and am not personally offended by you referring to the bible or the koran or anything else as “Fairytale” but I can recognise that it is very belittling and condescending as well as not accurate.
Condescending in that you are not just saying that you don’t believe in it, by calling it a “fairytale” you are insinuating that anyone that does believe in it is an idiot. This may be your opinion but is not really a valid argument
Not accurate in that there are various historical records outside of the bible that point to jesus existing and being punished by Pontius Pilatus.
So unless you are claiming that all these other none christian records were made up, the debate is was jesus the son of god or was he a preacher NOT is it a fairytale!
Condescending in that you are not just saying that you don’t believe in it, by calling it a “fairytale” you are insinuating that anyone that does believe in it is an idiot. This may be your opinion but is not really a valid argument
Not accurate in that there are various historical records outside of the bible that point to jesus existing and being punished by Pontius Pilatus.
So unless you are claiming that all these other none christian records were made up, the debate is was jesus the son of god or was he a preacher NOT is it a fairytale!
Great post.
Do you think there is anything the Premier League could do to help gay players? There must be scores of gay PL players feeling the same as your acquaintance. There was a story in recent weeks that a top player was going to come out but it didn't happen. Do you think it might help if there was mass coming out organised? "Kick it out" have raised awareness of racism so why not LGBT issues?
Was at a local game last night in Belfast for the first time in years and there was a guy sitting behind us making homophobic slurs. The ref was wearing a pink kit and this idiot couldn't help himself to shout stuff like "Gay pride was last week, mate." etc. Homophobia wasn't his only speciality though, he managed to insult foreigners and women a well which was a bit awkward as my foreign missus was with me. Thankfully it was unreserved seating and we moved seats at half time but people like that leave a bad taste on what was otherwise a good night.
The textual evidence of the existence of Jesus as a historical figure is very limited and certainly not definitive. I have no desire to derail this thread even further but there really is very little textual evidence at all and, that which there is, is not contemporaneous and not even close to conclusive.
That is not to say that describing religious texts as fairy tales is not incendiary. It clearly is incendiary. It may very well be rude and unhelpful. However, neither the Bible nor the Koran are factual documents and they are an extremely poor guide to historical fact.
You're always going to get people like that at football games. They should be ignored. I'm sure female linos and refs get shit from fans, but they get on with it.
Sounds like a cross between Nigel Farage and Donald Trump
You're right. In this case there weren't even any female officials...he was "bantering" a female attending the game with him.
Pretty much.
Actually, a bigot is by definition someone who is intolerant of those holding a different opinion and that is exactly what you are if you are being rude and offensive to religious people's beliefs.
If someone called all agnostics or atheists "sheep influenced by media" I would call them a bigot too. Your condescending tone towards something that is held dear to a vast majority of people makes you one as well.
This applies to anything in life. I may not be a fan of Chinese food or the fact that they use chop sticks but there's a difference between saying "I don't like it and don't believe in it " vs "What an archaic dumb way of eating and preparing food. Backward as hell".
P.S: I love Chinese food
Think that's a creeping problem in modern society:the growing intolerance towards any minority group,the feeling that they are to blame for all the problems in 'your' life.the fact that you can't come to terms with changing attitudes;Deeming it as PC gone mad. Men in particular( and a vocal minority of women) seem to think that they can return to the 'good ol days,' when insulting minority groups was ok as long as they accepted it( a euphemism for knowing your place) and laughed about it. We all got along as long as we knew who was in charge and accepted it.
Some of my best friends are Chinese food.
They shouldn't have to 'get on with it'. They should be able to go to work and not get abused.
I don't know why people care about others personal life. And on top of that judge them. I say; be as you are and if someone has problem with that, then thats their problem. Not yours. I never had and never will be against those who come out.
That said, I understand why footballers are not that eager coming out. We all know the amount of abuse it will come from some fans. And not just fans. There are lots of ignorant people out there.
That said, I understand why footballers are not that eager coming out. We all know the amount of abuse it will come from some fans. And not just fans. There are lots of ignorant people out there.
What is the incentive to reveal such information.
Despite what a society might tell itself about its general attitude and flatter itself in the process, many are still bigots and too emotionally stunted to comprehend somebody having a different sexual orientation. Combine it with the average football player not being known for being the most mindful of people and that is a recipe for disaster.
Despite what a society might tell itself about its general attitude and flatter itself in the process, many are still bigots and too emotionally stunted to comprehend somebody having a different sexual orientation. Combine it with the average football player not being known for being the most mindful of people and that is a recipe for disaster.
Good post.
I hope the gay player you got chatting too sorts himself out. I believe sometimes for some gay footballers the anxieties about coming out, maybe greater than the actual act of coming out. I hope that makes sense. Then again everyone is an individual and it will be tougher for some than others.
Thankfully the younger generation seems more open-minded about things such as sexuality and indeed more accepting of minority groups as a whole. I hope that does not sound like me over generalizing.
Many years ago in the late 80’s a friend who played in the same team as I did disclosed to me when he had a few pints that he was gay. He informed me that he wanted to come out as he had met a guy and they wanted to be in an open relationship. Anyway his biggest anxieties when talking to me were- what would the team think and that he would have to give up football because as he put it “the changing room issue”? I remember feeling uncomfortable when I told him that most, if not all the team thought he was gay anyway as he had been observed on several occasions going into a gay pub. Initially he was shocked but gradually seemed more relaxed about what I said. Anyway the main essence of what I am saying is he did come out and played with the team for several more years. The support he received from the team was unanimous … By the way, the reason I felt uncomfortable was not that the general feeling was that we all felt he was gay but that I never mentioned to him that we knew he went to a gay bar. My thoughts were that it was up to him to approach the issue of his sexuality…
In my opinion, any person who has an issue with people being gay or are openly vindictive towards minority groups, colour or creed, well they really aren’t that pleasant, are they? I just believe they should try to be more understanding and if not, well then I certainly would not want to be in their company.
I agree with you, but you're always going to get guys at games doing it. The best way to eliminate it is to just ignore it. What better reaction to "hahaha Chelsea's right back is gay!!!!" then "so who cares?"
The best way to eliminate it is to ban the ones doing it from attending games.
Gay footballer Andy Brennan: "Coming out has been amazing"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-49372109
More:BBC said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-49372109
Souness gets a lot of stick, some of it justified but on issues like this he is normally reasonable and quite progressive for his generation. I think I’m right in saying he was determined to sign catholic’s for Rangers and he stood up for Howard Gayle when Tommy Smith was giving him stick.
You’re probably right. Don’t know much about his opinions outside football, but looks like he condemned the behavior of Suarez in the Evra incident.
What happened to that apparent gay player on twitter? Just a hoax?
One of Souness's closest friends was Dale Winton, which probably is a factor to why he is clued up on the gay community.
feck off... Really? That's so funny. What an odd pair to put together as mates. Dale Winton and Sounness chilling together? Ha ha... Kinda sweet but so bizarre.
More news today that a premiership player has written an open letter to the Justin Fashanu foundation.
Interesting to note how feeling forced to hide this because of the potential repercussions and that “football isn’t ready” must have on your mental health, and how this will obviously affect your ability to do your job, ie play football.
Be kind people.
Interesting to note how feeling forced to hide this because of the potential repercussions and that “football isn’t ready” must have on your mental health, and how this will obviously affect your ability to do your job, ie play football.
Be kind people.
He was dale wintons best man when he got married so whilst there is many things Souness can be called out on thats not one of them
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-44228589
It’s not a big deal. It shouldn’t be a big deal. But that makes me warm to Sounness massively. Which is weird, when you think about it. Because being good friends with a gay man doesn’t magically prevent anyone from ever being a horrible person.
Good point. But it does add one (just one at a stretch) redeeming quality to what is a human being with not many
I think we will see more openly gay players and soon.
Society is just ready for it, there is no stigma anymore and honestly I don't think that 99% of people give one damn what folks do in their own time.
Any homophobic chants or comments from the crowds (when we have them again!) should equal a life time ban, with a fine and community service thrown in.
I wouldn't expect much opposition from clubs if the above or something similar was mandated league wide.
Society is just ready for it, there is no stigma anymore and honestly I don't think that 99% of people give one damn what folks do in their own time.
Any homophobic chants or comments from the crowds (when we have them again!) should equal a life time ban, with a fine and community service thrown in.
I wouldn't expect much opposition from clubs if the above or something similar was mandated league wide.
You should read the comments on the PL or United's facebook page during pride.
Damn really?
That's depressing.
Britain is ready for it and despite some inevitable incidents and the gutter press dog whistling reports of any gay players lifestyle, they would quickly bore of it and it will become normal.
More conservative (regressive) countries who represent serious financial partners for the FA and individual clubs are the main obstacle.
That United Facebook page was something else.
I cant see any openly gay footballers anytime soon in this country. We're still having to check IP address for people calling Wilfred Zaha racist shit on the morning of games. Imagine if say a Spurs player came out. Claude from AFTV used a racist term towards Son for fecks sake. Football fans just cant help being the shittest people on earth.
Are they really such a problem when the Premier League is already supporting pride and using rainbow flags?
I honestly don't think any sponsors would pull out unless players started kissing on the field
It would be interesting to see if that is all visible in these countries. I’m doing a project at the moment for a very well known kids TV channel and their localisation guidelines were a bit of an eye opener.