Is there any cliffs notes on what exactly has gone wrong this summer for Madrid? Everyone was salivating themselves over how well run their "rebuild" was early in the summer.
Zidane sack watch - 19/20
- Thread starter JoaquinJoaquin
- Start date
Zidane wanted Pogba as a central figure in the rebuild but Madrid faffed around with other targets first thinking Pogba would be the least of their worries. Come the last week of the window they realised we weren't going to sell on the cheap and neither did we want Bale nor James so they offered Zidane Eriksen instead, a player he's not interested in.
Turns out all the players they bought aren't the finished article and haven't gelled together well enough over pre season to appease everyone. Now there's talk of loaning out Jovic, despite just signing and talk Zidane is going to walk again.
And people think we struggled after Ronaldo?
They still don't have Ronaldo.
Pogba just an excuse, Real Madrid have a very good squad.
Zidane is tactility inept, always has been. He's great with the players and they respect him. Was using Rafa's system for first spell...
If he's near to bailing out already.., it's because he doesn't have the tactical nous to build a new system with the players available.
They've been really poor in pre season.
Zidane is tactility inept, always has been. He's great with the players and they respect him. Was using Rafa's system for first spell...
If he's near to bailing out already.., it's because he doesn't have the tactical nous to build a new system with the players available.
They've been really poor in pre season.
I don't really see how Pogba solves their problems. He seems like a convenient excuse for Zidane to deflect blame more than anything.
This.
I'd assume Ole would get a better tune out of Jovic for istance. He looked like an old fashioned United signing ala Van Nistelrooy before Madrid got involved.
When Madrid won 3 Champions Leagues in a row it was simply luck & having no great sides in the world at the time. Bayern played them off the park 2 seasons in a row & other games Ronaldo or Ramos turned into superman.
Makes me laugh when people compare them to the genius that was Pep's Barcelona - even his City side are better than Madrid ever where. They'd pass them to death.
The sheer number of people who wanted this managerial blag artist to take charge of us still shocks me to my core.
I dont see what problems they have tbh. 'Making do' with modric or james isn't the worst thing in the world. They can probably get Pogba next season. Fair enough keeping up with a Barcelona thats added Griezmann, De Jong and possibly Neymar isn't going to happen. But thats more of a goalscoring issue and adding Jovic and Hazard is as good as you can hope for really isn't it? I'd say they'd be in more for Neymar if adding him didn't feck Zidane off. Theres enough talent in the team he has to have a decent season though
The squad looks good on paper, but I think most of the important players are on the way down or have lost the hunger already.
Last season some of them ended up sidelined by Solari because of poor attitude like Marcelo and Isco, and Zidane has taken them back again. Kroos was under serious criticism because he played like an old man and he got a new contract a pair of months ago. Ramos is the main leader but he's 33 and threatened to go to China, and Modric is 34 in september and he can't sustain everything by himself.
Bale spends more time injured than playing, and Carvajal hasn't been the same since the physical problems in the last years. Ronaldo was replaced with Mariano and they missed his 40 goals, and probably they'll do again because Hazard will improve them surely, but he's not a super goalscorer in that mould, and is yet to see if Jovic is a regular starter. Vinicious was very energetic last season and showed promise but the guy can't score a goal to save his life, and I think they can count again on the workhorse Lucas Vazquez (their JLingz) playing a lot of minutes on the right wing.
Overall a vastly overrated squad with an ageing core and lacking ambition and enthusiasm. For me Zidane has never looked like a tactical genius despite the trophies, but tactics wise there's no winning formula if you don't have the basics on the field like focus, discipline, energy and hunger. And the players that look lively are mostly humble academy players, or prospects with everything to learn yet like Vinicious or that japanese lad.
I think the main mistake he's doing is keeping the majority of his old guard. After a diabolical season they needed deep changes and shaking things up, but they're keeping almost the same basis and spending thousands on peripheral additions, so that bad smell of last season remaining now shouldn't be a surprise.
The problem of hiring Zidane is that they have to give him power and freedom to decide, otherwise he wouldn't have gone back again. So even if the club know the problems existing with some players or fancy certain targets, they are hands tied in that regard and have to follow his instructions. We'll see what happens but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if everything exploded at some point during the season.
Last season some of them ended up sidelined by Solari because of poor attitude like Marcelo and Isco, and Zidane has taken them back again. Kroos was under serious criticism because he played like an old man and he got a new contract a pair of months ago. Ramos is the main leader but he's 33 and threatened to go to China, and Modric is 34 in september and he can't sustain everything by himself.
Bale spends more time injured than playing, and Carvajal hasn't been the same since the physical problems in the last years. Ronaldo was replaced with Mariano and they missed his 40 goals, and probably they'll do again because Hazard will improve them surely, but he's not a super goalscorer in that mould, and is yet to see if Jovic is a regular starter. Vinicious was very energetic last season and showed promise but the guy can't score a goal to save his life, and I think they can count again on the workhorse Lucas Vazquez (their JLingz) playing a lot of minutes on the right wing.
Overall a vastly overrated squad with an ageing core and lacking ambition and enthusiasm. For me Zidane has never looked like a tactical genius despite the trophies, but tactics wise there's no winning formula if you don't have the basics on the field like focus, discipline, energy and hunger. And the players that look lively are mostly humble academy players, or prospects with everything to learn yet like Vinicious or that japanese lad.
I think the main mistake he's doing is keeping the majority of his old guard. After a diabolical season they needed deep changes and shaking things up, but they're keeping almost the same basis and spending thousands on peripheral additions, so that bad smell of last season remaining now shouldn't be a surprise.
The problem of hiring Zidane is that they have to give him power and freedom to decide, otherwise he wouldn't have gone back again. So even if the club know the problems existing with some players or fancy certain targets, they are hands tied in that regard and have to follow his instructions. We'll see what happens but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if everything exploded at some point during the season.
In the preseason they have not played well and the signings have not been able to shine, Jovic, Hazard or Mendy, who was injured after the first game.
Fans expected more revolution, and better performances from veterans.
Nacho and Odriozola very badly, Kroos suffering a lot, Isco imprecise, and Lucas Vázquez as an alternative, when fans wanted to see other players.
The fan did not like he is so strict with the departure of Ceballos and James,who has a big group of fan boys, and that according to many deserves a chance.
Later came his refusal with Eriksen, his little illusion with Van de Beek, the apathy about the signing of Neymar, etc.
All this in theory, it is difficult to know who he appreciates and who does not.
The most exciting players this preseason were Kubo and Rodrygo, and he sent both to Castilla (perhaps for being NO EU, although Valverde already got a passport).
A bit counterproductive with the idea of signing young people. Ceballos, Odegaard, Kubo, Rodrygo, Vinicius on the bench, etc.
No improvement has been seen since March, and worried about the defensive weaknesses he has decided to use a new system, 532, which seems quite improvised and surely unpopular.
He’s not really much of a coach if he’s essentially refusing other options because he can’t get Pogba. Pogba wouldn’t come close to solving their issues anyway. Loving this situation.
There is plenty talent there to do better. I think there are a lot of coaches who would love to work with the talent Real have, and not just the established players. They have spent a fair bit in getting highly rated young players in the club, would not be the worst idea to use them along with the experience the team has.
The 5-3-2 isn’t unpopular randomly. It’s just not looked at all solid. That’s why fans don’t get it. Also, most interpret it as Zidane’s way to continue to favour Marcelo. The insistence on relying on Vazquez is also leading to the allegations of favoritism. Not to mention his standing firmly behind KCM as the only option in the absence of Pogba. Inflexible.
To those ranting about his tactical ineptitude, I’m assuming they’ve never followed Madrid. He showed massive flexibility when he came in. It’s no coincidence that he played two different formations for a campaign. James and Morata would step in when Ronaldo was rested or if they were in search of goals. Morata got a lot of winners and James too was crucial then. Nobody wins 3 CLs (in a row FFS) through blind luck or just having a great team.
Feel though that the year before he let his personal preferences start to prejudice football judgment. Now it’s blinding him. He’s behaving more like Mourinho than the Zidane that came in first time around. Since he’s come back, he didn’t even get the “new manager bounce”. He’s not really changed anything and the stress is showing.
PS: On tactics, funnily enough, previously people accused Zidane of not having a system and set philosophy as he “mixed it up so much”. That’s partly what’s so immensely frustrating to see now. All down to personal biases and likes / dislikes? Or just trying to make a point to the Board (Flo) at the cost of the team and results? No idea but right now, looks like a long old season is in store...
Yes, you're right. He has not been able to break up with the previous team.
I personally thought that Marcelo and Modric would be out this season.
I think they have talked so much about his preferences that there are players who play with a certain fear.
He has not communicated well with the press, which was one of his virtues.
He said a phrase about Bale and ended up with Barnett saying he was a disgrace, and he has largely ignored James when he never raised his voice to say anything bad.
It is also true that the club has not been as agile as it should with their exits.
He has to be much more populist.
Finish with the veterans and dare to put certain players, although it is also said (according to el confidencial) that in his opinion in Madrid there is no time for young people, because the club burns them before they can take off.
This will end with "the team is not well worked, meritocracy is missing. he is acting against the club. Mourinho would listen to the president and put order, or even Raúl, who is with Kubo and Rodrygo at Castilla"
or "Have you seen the game of Spain? Ceballos played well. Zidane goes against the Spaniards.Do you really think Mendy cost 50 m€? Only his french talking friends play "
I do not like his obsession with Pogba, but I am sorry that his project is not complete. If he fails I will always have the doubt about what would have happened if he had had full freedom.
Madrid wont sign Pogba.
Pogba is only interested in Madrid because of Zidane. He couldnt give two fecks about the Spanish twats. They're not a powerhouse at the moment and he's already at a club in a rebuilding phase. Taking United back to a PL or CL compared with Madrid? from an ego standpoint, there's only one you'd chose and its not the flowers in white. Ronaldo won them titles on his own and they still treat him like shit.
United just need to sit back and watch Madrid's season unravel with that clown at the helm and we'll never have to worry about their interest again.
Pogba is only interested in Madrid because of Zidane. He couldnt give two fecks about the Spanish twats. They're not a powerhouse at the moment and he's already at a club in a rebuilding phase. Taking United back to a PL or CL compared with Madrid? from an ego standpoint, there's only one you'd chose and its not the flowers in white. Ronaldo won them titles on his own and they still treat him like shit.
United just need to sit back and watch Madrid's season unravel with that clown at the helm and we'll never have to worry about their interest again.
This. Pogba isn't some magician, he needs specific conditions to bring the best out of him at Juventus he had Marchisio, Vidal and Pirlo everything was narrow through the middle and he needed minimal defensive positional discipline due to his peers. The same can be said succeeding at France, the hard work of Matiudi and Kante covered Paul's frailties they were the unsung heroes at the WC. Madrid to me personally have never had a strong team ethic, they've not had tactical elements to portray good football, not ordained themselves as a structured outfit not since dating back to the Galactico's era, everything at the club has run through Ronaldo and become Ronaldo FC.
Madrid need a new philosophy, they need to work on the fundamentals of building a strong team, not fundamentals of relying on players intuition the modern game is too supressed and tactical. I don't see Jürgen leaving Liverpool but this is the calibre of manager needed. Someone to revolutionise their outdated ethos. 10-15 years ago you could get the likes of Mbappe, Sane, De Ligt, Sancho and other generational talents collectively for a few hundred million. Now that few hundred million is going to get you 1 individual.
Scrap the Galactico's nonsense, build and develop a proper team. We (United) it seems are finally after years of wasting resources doing the same, sometimes the key is to buy from a club's respective domestic leagues for example look how good of a signing Asensio was ! Madrid have seemingly missed out good midfielders from La Liga Bentacur / La Celso for example very useful players.
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I actually think he could go on to be their Alex Ferguson by staying the next 20 years.
you got to get to finals to win the thing, and Ronaldo carried them to finals with plenty of decisive moments
That doesnt mean Pogba will stay. If he doesn't join Real Madrid, he's practically nailed on to sign for Juventus
Not to mention how lucky they got against Bayern in 2017- Bayern had a player sent off in each leg rather dubiously when Ramos and Casemiro were clearer candidates for such punishment while Ronaldo's equaliser in the 2nd leg was offside
The previous Bayern goal was offside too, Bayern got a penalty for the ball hitting Carvajal’s chest and the only dubious thing about the red card for Vidal was that it should have came way earlier.
There were loads of mistakes both ways, Madrid deservedly won. Not in 2018 though, Bayern were clearly better then.
Juve do not have the funds to buy Pogba. If we finish in top 4 and playing better, he would stay.
This is all just nonsense and Jovic part takes the cake. You actually believe a club will spend 60 mil € on a player and then sell him before he kicked a ball?
If you believe that, then you'll believe the Earth is flat.
Their rebuild will take time. I don't think any team on the planet can lose a 50 goal a season player and remain the same.
I wish nothing but the worst for Madrid...and for Barca too.
That's not true at all but it's not like it's very important.
Yet another example of people going hyperbolic in a football forum.
Yup, I feel the same about the squad for this season. It's a very good team on paper but there's no hunger in them anymore and are in decline now and it doesn't help one bit if they get to play automatically based on their reputation alone. Zidane needs to keep them motivated and having them to compete with new and younger players for a position would have been what they need and would had love to see Eriksen sign for us this season or Van de Beek for that matter.
Anyway it seems that it's going to take longer to rebuild the core of the team but they still need to perform a lot better this season.
Zidane looks like he won’t survive the season,and Mourinhos probably the favourite to replace him.If Mourinho takes over at Real,then there’s absolutely no chance of Pogba joining them...
We were better than bayern in 2017 and deserved to go through. One only has to look at vidal's tackle on isco 10 minutes into the second leg to put the "ref did it" argument to rest
2018 though, i'm still laughing
City are better than Madrid have ever been though. I've never seen Madrid dominate sides the way City have last few years.
The best team often doesn't win a knockout competition. Pep's City will rip any Madrid side to pieces more often than not. In the same league they would dominate just like his Barcelona: The odd 6-2 | 5-0 results etc... Rinse & repeat.
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What teams?
When City qualifies eight seasons in a row for CL semis without failure we can start thinking about comparing them to any Real Madrid teams of the last decade.
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Interesting on Pogba the following: Zizou ve a Pogba como un puente a la llegada de Mbappé.
How do we know the Juventus job was even offered to him?
Yes, it also caught my attention( for who is interested "Zidane sees Pogba as a bridge for Mbappé's arrival").
Create the atmosphere for his arrival, provoking him.
In any case I would like to think that we are favorites for his arrival with or without Pogba, although on the other hand I hate to plan the teams / careers of players with years in advance. Everything changes too fast for that hypothesis
That is actually an incredible achievement I'll give you that. Never as good as City atm despite their consistency... They make their own luck it seems.
United never spent on the same level as Madrid & it showed in Europe during Fergie's career. We've always been a better club than them for everything bar money & the weather. Our story will always be better than theirs despite their bought trophies.
Luckily we've had Messi to make them look like clowns back home for the past 10 years so everyone is a winner. Lets pray Barcelona have a Messi 2.0 but I doubt that somehow.
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Just seen La Liga table, Real Madrid is 15th. Christ. How Zidane is still in the job is beyond me.
Real Madrid from 2012-17 with peak Ronaldo would beat City.
Position for position there’s not much in it, I would even hand it to Real Madrid. Modric at his best is better than any City midfielder..ditto Ramos at his best is better than any of their defenders. They have much better full-backs in Marcelo and Carvajal at their best and up-front they have a player better than any player in English football history that elevates them even further. Obviously, this is just talk on paper as Pep usually gets the best out of his team with his philosophy. However, Madrid of the last decade have already dismantled a Pep coached side emphatically in a KO contest.
I'm sure Mourinho will be there soon
Pogba will be happy
Pogba will be happy