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This sand training thing looks like a great idea for injury rehab. Not sure how well it would work at Carrington.
Lionel Messi
- Thread starter Scarecrow
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
This sand training thing looks like a great idea for injury rehab. Not sure how well it would work at Carrington.
What Messi has done since Neymar left, carrying Barcelona to these two La Liga titles with a team below it's previous standards is pretty fantastic if we stop judging him on CL alone.
Somehow expecting him to have an even better season than these last ones at Spanish level.
Somehow expecting him to have an even better season than these last ones at Spanish level.
Preach. It's almost as if RVP had managed to carry Utd to two PL titles in 14-16.
Rvp took us to 1 title not 2.
What I said.
Given how competitive La Liga has got below Barça and Madrid, I still think it's impressive. Atletico, Sevilla and Valencia are always there.
Wouldn’t like to see some of our players training in just their y fronts.
Is sand as therapeutic as water? The buoyancy from water is a big help when easing back from an injury. I can see the low impact from sand being good, but i wonder if it wouldn't work for some types of injuries
It is really hard work so I guess he must have recovered but in the process of regaining fitness and propioception. As you don't have a solid base to push off it really stresses hammies and calfs in particular. Great for balance as the surface is uneven under foot. The advantages are when you switch to a solid base such as grass after using it you feel lighter and quicker.
This.
When I played I would often warm up in a long jump pit or on some surrounding uneven/rough ground if I could.
My team mates thought I was barking until I explained why.
Then they were all at it and we all looked barking...
Flashbacks
Not thought of that - great idea. My son plays so I will pass on your tip as we spend time on holiday running through the sand dunes. I am sure people think we are barking mad as well.This.
When I played I would often warm up in a long jump pit or on some surrounding uneven/rough ground if I could.
My team mates thought I was barking until I explained why.
Then they were all at it and we all looked barking...
Flashbacks
I always remember Becks at Milan saying how hard training was was because they spent some of it on the dry sand running.
When your son gets that first mega contract I hope he will remember and attribute his success to me
That goes without saying as you will obviously be the first person he will thankWhen your son gets that first mega contract I hope he will remember and attribute his success to me
I think his future lies outside of professional sport.
I thought sand was really bad for your knees? Apparently that idea I had was wrong.
Below it’s previous standards but still better than the competition. Real Madrid were extremely underwhelming last year and the year before. No one else’s squad in la liga is as good as Barca’s so it isn’t as miraculous as you’re making out really.
According to an exclusive interview with a catalan newspaper, Messi doesn't "know" if Bartomeu did enough to bring Neymar back, and that he feels Barça is his "home" but wants to keep winning titles...
He also "mentions" Puyol as an ideal director of football.
Interesting...
I consider this an indirect attack towards Bartomeu and his board.
He also "mentions" Puyol as an ideal director of football.
Interesting...
I consider this an indirect attack towards Bartomeu and his board.
Take Messi out of Barca and they’re battling for 4th or 5th in the league. Massively overrated squad and are pitiful without him.
He's just coming off of two incredible back to back seasons on an individual level. He has every right to feel slighted by the coach and board for not doing what's necessary to win the CL
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Rubbish, Real and Atletico weren't great at all. There's no way the other 17 teams are better than Barcelona without Messi.
Seriously? A team with Geizeman, Suarez, Dembele, De Jong, Vidal, Busquets, Umtiti, Alba, Pique will be battling for 4th or 5th? Who are you kidding with?
Hyperbole. Without Messi Barça would finish 2nd + UCL QFs this season.
Which of course is not good enough.
Have you seen Barca without Messi? They’ve only won once in their last 7 without him
They’ve only gotten one win in their last 7 without him
Pay attention to how Barca play without him, only ONE win in their last 7. They would be struggling a lot.
How can it be hyperbole when they have 1 win in 7 without him?
When your whole team is built around one man, you are bound to struggle if he’s not playing.
If Messi didn’t exist and you had to play the team they had, they would not be 4/5th in the league.
MTS
Semedo
Pique
Lenglet/Umtiti
Alba/Firpo
De Jong
Busquets
Vidal/Arthur/Rakitic
Dembele
Suarez
Griezmann
Are hardly garbage.
In games that Messi was missing, they weren't playing Suarez and Griezmann instead. They were playing Kevin Prince Boateng and Rafinha since there were a bunch of key players out either through injury or getting rested.
Past 7 games without Messi were Osasuna away, Betis at home, Bilbao away, Celta away, Huesca away, Sevilla away, Levante away and Inter away.
Osasuna, Betis and Bilbao they've been missing not only Messi but also Dembele and Suarez. Their front 3 has been Griezmann, Rafinha and Perez. Rakitic also hasn't played.
Celta away they played the following starting eleven: Cillesen; Wagué, Todibo, Umtiti, Vermaelen; Arthur, Aleña, Puig; Malcom, Boateng, Dembele. Dembele got subbed out by Alex Collado in the 6th minute. Yeah, they lost because Messi wasn't there...
Huesca away they played the following starting eleven: Ter Stegen; Wagué, Murillo, Umtiti, Todibo; Aleña, Puig, Vidal; Malcom, Boateng, Dembele...
Sevilla away they played Cillesen; Semedo, Pique, Lenglet, Sergi Roberto; Vidal, Rakitic, Arthur; Aleña, Boateng, Malcom
Levante away they played Cillesen; Semedo, Murillo, Brandariz, Miranda; Busquets, Vidal, Coutinho, Aleña, Dembele, Malcom
The only game in that 7 game streak in which they didn't have at least half of their starting eleven out was Inter away. And they drew that game. Suarez was out for 6 of those 7 games, Busquets, Pique, Alba and Rakitic out of most of them, etc...
They have a fantastic record without Messi throughout the years. The 'Barcelona fans' that support Messi over Barcelona like @Daysleeper can then ignore all context and spread around the stats that make him look good while completely shitting on their own team. I'll never understand how they can pretend those 7 games tell you anything about how Barcelona would look without Messi given that even without Messi, Griezmann, Suarez and Dembele would make up the best front 3 in Spain.
Past 7 games without Messi were Osasuna away, Betis at home, Bilbao away, Celta away, Huesca away, Sevilla away, Levante away and Inter away.
Osasuna, Betis and Bilbao they've been missing not only Messi but also Dembele and Suarez. Their front 3 has been Griezmann, Rafinha and Perez. Rakitic also hasn't played.
Celta away they played the following starting eleven: Cillesen; Wagué, Todibo, Umtiti, Vermaelen; Arthur, Aleña, Puig; Malcom, Boateng, Dembele. Dembele got subbed out by Alex Collado in the 6th minute. Yeah, they lost because Messi wasn't there...
Huesca away they played the following starting eleven: Ter Stegen; Wagué, Murillo, Umtiti, Todibo; Aleña, Puig, Vidal; Malcom, Boateng, Dembele...
Sevilla away they played Cillesen; Semedo, Pique, Lenglet, Sergi Roberto; Vidal, Rakitic, Arthur; Aleña, Boateng, Malcom
Levante away they played Cillesen; Semedo, Murillo, Brandariz, Miranda; Busquets, Vidal, Coutinho, Aleña, Dembele, Malcom
The only game in that 7 game streak in which they didn't have at least half of their starting eleven out was Inter away. And they drew that game. Suarez was out for 6 of those 7 games, Busquets, Pique, Alba and Rakitic out of most of them, etc...
They have a fantastic record without Messi throughout the years. The 'Barcelona fans' that support Messi over Barcelona like @Daysleeper can then ignore all context and spread around the stats that make him look good while completely shitting on their own team. I'll never understand how they can pretend those 7 games tell you anything about how Barcelona would look without Messi given that even without Messi, Griezmann, Suarez and Dembele would make up the best front 3 in Spain.
Jesus you are pathetic. Does your whole life revolve around Ronaldo? Do you have nothing better to do with your time than criticize Messi even when nobody has even mentioned Ronaldo's name. It's pathological.
I think part of the problem is that they all expect Messi to do something and everything. It's ingrained in their minds, and part of their automatisms. If Messi weren't there, of course they would be worse off, but also forced to fend for themselves a bit more and play better as a group. Right now they are too fecking passive.
And that's been an issue all along in the CL - when Messi has a bad night, as he's invariably will do, the whole team struggles badly. Exhibit 1 PSG away 4-0. Exhibit 2 Turin away, 3-0. Exhibit 3 Roma away, 3-0. Exhibit 4 Liverpool away, 4-0. This is a pattern.
Look at CL too, their second and third best scorers are often well behind Messi, Suarez is solid La Liga but absolute crap in CL post 2016.
Barca looked good against Madrid in recent years but they haven't looked "fantastic" without Messi since 2016 when Neymar was there and Messi was out for 6-7 weeks.
They barely function without him.
Without him those players often look very ordinary. It's early days right now but with Valverde at the helm and no synergy thy would struggle badly. Yes, eventually they would get used to playing without Messi, but it's an aging/injury prone squad.
Love De Jong and Arthur, and hopefully Griezmann shines but 5 points in 3 matches is brutal.
What the actual feck...
Did I criticize him at all? Please tell me where I criticized him. Did I even talk about Ronaldo? The feck are you on about?
Just giving some context behind the incredibly deceiving 'They only won 1 game without him', I guess you'd have prefered to be misinformed. Because that's not pathetic at all of course.
Being passive has been a problem for Barcelona in the past, pre-Messi era we were too passive when we got a 5 year title drought, Spain have been too passive for 6 years and have sucked in 3 major tournaments so far.
When the whole concept behind your football becomes "be in possession of the ball" becoming passive is the most usual outcome. In the Dutch philosophy of football the route of "Play entertaining football->Score a lot of goals to win -> You usually need the ball to entertain and score a lot of goals" ends up simplified in take the ball, defend with it and try to win by smothering chances to your rivals with the ball. It's how Spain won the World Cup, but it's not the way that generation was supposed to play football.
And since Guardiola that's our problem, Lucho worked it around in the treble year by accelerating the team, and he got lost on the way to combine scoring and having the ball like Guardiola usually did, since then, it's not a lot of players just being passive because Messi is on the field, is a lot of players doing that because the manager doesn't coach risky notions that allows us to score more goals with a dynamic attack.
Messi saves our bacon because he's good enough to be vertical in a passive team by beating 2 or 3 defenders by dribbling, or two lines of pressure with a pass, and he does it so consistently well that he doesn't fuel a lot of counter attacks by failing in those actions. When Coutinho, Dembele, Suarez or sometimes even Rakitic does it, we get toast at the back because they give up easy counters. But that's not on apathy of Messi running the show and the team delegating on him, it's on a bad tactical job from the manager.
Ironic as Ronaldo wasn’t even mentioned here neither was any criticism of Messi. Looks like someone is highly insecure..
Its clear to anybody that has read more than 5 posts of yours, that anything that makes Messi look TOO good, you will try to dispute it, its like you are trying your hardest to keep the CR7 vs Messi debate "alive" even if most people know what the answer to that VS is. You will still be here posting in 10 years the same kind of arguments and fighting with everything you have to make everyone else believe that maybe Messi wasnt THAT good.What the actual feck...
Did I criticize him at all? Please tell me where I criticized him. Did I even talk about Ronaldo? The feck are you on about?
Just giving some context behind the incredibly deceiving 'They only won 1 game without him', I guess you'd have prefered to be misinformed. Because that's not pathetic at all of course.
Messi without Barcelona are a top 4 team in la liga, and a round of 16 team in the CL, doesnt matter how many Griezmanns or Suarez they have. Its not because of a lack of quality players, its mostly because they are TERRIBLY coached and the tactics and mentality of the team is garbage, with or without Messi on the pitch. The difference is that even if the team plays like garbage, if Messi is on the pitch he will create at least a few clear scoring opportunities for his team.
Barcelona won only 1 out of the last 7 games played without Messi and thats a fact. You can try to make excuses for the team as much as you want, but you take any player off from those starting XI's you listed and put Messi instead, and there is no way you can say that Barcelona would have still won only one out of 7.
Messi has a win percentage of over 90%, and thats a fact. You can say or make up whatever you want but statistics dont lie, and they say that 1 in 7 wins wouldnt have happened with Messi starting the game. Not even close.
Really? because before they played in Barca every single one of those players were doing quite fine without Messi before.
OBVIOUSELY Messi will make a difference on any team and his absence will be felt on any team he is the second best player in the world and of his generation and a player like that can't be replaced but to say a team full of World class players like Barca have would get 4th or 5th is absurd. They would still conformably challenge for La Liga with Atletico and Madrid.
Van Dijk may be winning the Balon d'or but that doesnt make him the best player in the world mate. Even Van Dijk himself has admitted that Messi is the best player in the world.
Barca's main problem is that in their current state, Messi is the only edge they have over other top teams. on paper, their first 11 should play great football even without Messi. in reality, they're simply managed so badly that winning against those teams requires him being on his goat level most of the time. Klopp put Milner and Henderson in midfield and destroyed them even without Firminho and Salah. can anyone imagine Valverde having similar absences and doing the same to them? Barca have no system and they have the worst coach among top clubs, but they certainly have the players of required quality. it's just that their potential is being wasted under Valverde. Klopp would win la liga with their current squad, with or without Messi. I'd bet my life on that.
Jesus Christ, are you people going mental? I didn't even give my opinion on Messi or how much influence he has... You can't disagree about what I said because what I said are literally facts, not opinions. Messi's been the best player in the world for the past year, I've argued he deserves the Ballon D'Or when many don't and yet I'm the biased idiot for that post in which I put some sense into a clearly wrong statement?
Why are you lot angry at me literally listing the lineups used in those 7 games? I just made a simple point: How are 7 games without Messi in which they pretty much rested their whole starting eleven proof of how well they'd do over a season if he was the only player out?? Explain it to me. Please, for the love of God, explain it to me. Wouldn't winning 5-1 against Real Madrid without Messi and all the other players actually playing be a better game to get conclusions on this topic rather than 7 games where they played Todibo, Wagué, Boateng, etc.?
And if noone actually disagrees with the point I made, which seems to be the case, then someone explain to me why these posts and personal attacks even exist? Because you're angry I gave more context to a stat that was blatantly out of context? The hypocrisy of getting called biased and pathetic while you're angry at me for literally listing some lineups is truly remarkable.
I'll patiently wait for an apology and a thank you for having made you a more informed person.
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