My take on it is that the stats department will recommend the player based purely on those numbers. The scouts will then take over and get a feel for the person themselves. It doesn't matter how good their statistics are if they're a nightmare in a dressing room. The stats let us identify players that would fit the bill, the scouts make sure those players fit into the club
Firmino
- Thread starter Loublaze
- Start date
Bergkamp and Cantona were not the most prolific, nor were they ‘underrated’, simply because they were better than Firminho. Firminho’s strengths and weaknesses have already been considered in his ratings, and he would maybe be rated as good as you think he is if he scored more goals. Evidently, the footballing world doesn’t find the rest of his game as good as Bergkamp’s.
Again, this isn’t a Liverpool thing. I never subscribed to the notion that Carrick was the most underrated either. He just wasn’t as good a midfielder as Scholes, Gerrard and Lampard.
makes perfect sense.
I am not saying he is as good as Bergkamp. But when he scored 27 goals in 17/18, a goal every other game and the same as Lukaku (which was his best season for you) , it's not as if his star rose much accordingly.
The notion that ratings always find their equilibrium is just not one I find true.
this overrated/underrated thing is a bit silly.. All players a overrated or underrated, depending on who makes the rating I'd think. Firmino doesn't have to be as good as Bergkamp or Cantona to be a great player.. Heck, he could be a worse player than them, and still be world class. That's how good they were. But they weren't prolific goalscorers either, and you implied that Firmino is a lesser player, because his goalscoring isn't prolific.
He's not a top 5 forward in the PL and not a top 10 forward in the world. He is rated about right: very good player but not among the very best.
He doesn't score many goals and he doesn't make up for it with contributing many assists. He averages 7 assists in the league which isn't special by any means. Cantona and Bergkapm were assist kings.
In terms of importance for Liverpool, I think he is behind Alisson, VVD, Salah and Mane. If Klopp has to choose one of those 5 players to miss the season, it will most probably be Firmino. Liverpool rely for assists more on their full backs than on Firmino.
He doesn't score many goals and he doesn't make up for it with contributing many assists. He averages 7 assists in the league which isn't special by any means. Cantona and Bergkapm were assist kings.
In terms of importance for Liverpool, I think he is behind Alisson, VVD, Salah and Mane. If Klopp has to choose one of those 5 players to miss the season, it will most probably be Firmino. Liverpool rely for assists more on their full backs than on Firmino.
If you include players like Salah and Sterling as forwards, then I would agree, but if the list is limited to center forwards, then he's certainly top 5. I'd have Kane, Aguero, and PEA ahead of him, but that's it. And even then, I'm not sure I'd trade Firmino for any of them. His unselfishness helps the offense flow, while Kane in particular would clash with Salah. Firmino is also so durable.
As far as Liverpool's squad goes, I think Salah and Mane are better individually, but if I can only have 2 of the 3 available, I'm taking Firmino and one of the other two. Their talents overlap with each other's in a way that his dont.
No, I implied Firminho is a lesser player because he doesn’t score enough goals AND is a lesser player than them. Cristiano Ronaldo doesn’t even have the silk of Bergkamp but is rated better because he scores a lot more goals. Firminho doesn’t have the silk of Bergkamp, nor does he score enough goals to still be considered as good as/better than them (despite less all round ability).
I’m not sure what your repeated references to Lukaku are about. Is he supposed to be an example of a unanimously world-class rated forward? Lukaku scored 27 and is still not rated as that good. In fact, at least in this country, Firminho is rated higher I’d say.
He’s no victim, he’s rated as a very good player. Just not so very good that he is rated alongside Kane, Aguero, Salah etc or basically, any other forward who is better than he is. How exactly do you want/expect him to be referred to? I don’t hear a media clamour to replace him or anything.
I agree that he is not as good a player as Bergkamp was, and Cantona for that matter. And Aguero and Kane is generally rated higher for a reason. I just think that judging Firmino on his stats would lead to an inaccurate image of his contribution (I know you didn't do that).
Reading the comments in here makes me think he is probably rated as he should be. One of the best around, but not one of the very best.
Firmino reminds me of Modric. Took about few years for people to figure out what he is about.
The original post in this thread! Hahahahaha!
In another thread there are some posters claiming United are copying Liverpool (buy trying to get good defenders, and be fit, haha), but surely Firmino and the role he plays is the biggest difference in the way the teams are trying to set up. Martial is going to be the number 9 at United and there's no doubt he's meant to be one of the main goal threats at all time, and Ole wants him to score centre forward goals at the sharp end. Firmino is a fascinating player, he seems to do more of what Benzema has done so brilliantly at Real for a number of years, but with even more work rate and linking of play, instead of scoring as many.
In another thread there are some posters claiming United are copying Liverpool (buy trying to get good defenders, and be fit, haha), but surely Firmino and the role he plays is the biggest difference in the way the teams are trying to set up. Martial is going to be the number 9 at United and there's no doubt he's meant to be one of the main goal threats at all time, and Ole wants him to score centre forward goals at the sharp end. Firmino is a fascinating player, he seems to do more of what Benzema has done so brilliantly at Real for a number of years, but with even more work rate and linking of play, instead of scoring as many.
Last para: that’s because his game/job was nothing like those 3 you mentioned. Might as well compare Evra to them.
Yes, Benzema is a good comparison, with Ronaldo and Bale at his side. Liverpool plays more like that than like Klopp’s Dortmund with Lewa as a goalgetting striker.
I never really watched his Dortmund, Lewa and his type are of course an endangered species these days as the number 9 role has been redefined in terms of the requirements. I wonder what the next evolution in play will be.
Firminio is crucial to how Mane and Salah link up. He might not be a good goal scorer or assist master but somehow he brings balance to the front line. I guess it’s because he drops deep and creates space for the 2 main men to exploit
Two fast and direct 9’s both attacking from the left side of the pitch
Lewandowski never was a pure goalgetting striker for Klopp/Dortmund, in his first season he played as a second striker/#10, and in the following ones he recorded 10, 7 and 10 assists in the league alone. He was quite integral to Dortmund's build up.
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Who the heck is PEA? People are going too far with initials..
Pierre Emerick Aubameyang. My apologies.
Just call him aboomerang, like all beer-chugging, marmite-loving, red-blooded people do
Lawd. What a pass.
This is the type of striker United need.
Disgusting pass!
I think he'd be shit here. He's just full of confidence at Liverpool.
Feck me he is good
White text?
I probably shouldn't be saying this, but he's the striker I enjoy the most to watch. Pity.
I don't think our strikers have developed the capacity to think of cutting past the defenders like Mane.
If he was just dropped into our team I don't think he'd be great. He went missing for a while. I'd expect that for his entire duration if he was here, unless we improve a good few other positions.
Same could be said for a lot of players I guess though.
I think he'd actually be okay with Rashford and Martial either side of him. But he's perfect for Liverpool for sure.
Gary is that you?
Lawd. What a pass.
This is the type of striker United need.
He wouldn't be half the player with us
Need the video of him looking confused when a street rapper sung a song about him when He shopped for woman clothes.
That’s my opinion on him too, great player but Klopp elevated him a lot and I don’t think he would be anywhere the player we see in another team.
First time I've seen that in slow motion. Mane has denied one of the greatest assists in recent times. 
The swerve on the ball and the pace to land just in front of the keeper in no man's land. 
The swerve on the ball and the pace to land just in front of the keeper in no man's land. Ridiculous! That’s pure filth, or art, take your pick!First time I've seen that in slow motion. Mane has denied one of the greatest assists in recent times.
That would have been some assist, like.
Fecking hell, that's smooth.
Lawd. What a pass.
This is the type of striker United need.
Mourinho is that you?
Seeing as how United lack creativity and Liverpool's attack never looks the same without him, I don't see how you can be so sure he wouldn't perform. Regardless, I did say a player LIKE him.
Happy that he tried a smooth finish against us and passed the ball to the keeper. Two sides of the coin of being Brazilian.
How many of you guys could do this?? Be honest
Lawd. What a pass.
This is the type of striker United need.
In my sleepHow many of you guys could do this?? Be honest
