Bringing him in wouldn’t be letting our standards drop. Renewing our current players contracts is already doing that
Bruno Fernandes | United not interested due to doubts over passing ability
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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Heard today that he was on our list but way down it. We felt he was massively over priced and all the rumours were coming from Sportings side, which is why we came out and denied we were in for him multiple times.
Hmm. Good point I suppose. I get what you're saying, we don't seem to have minded bringing it crap passers before. Hopefully this is a good sign we're getting more thorough in our recruitment.
Longstaff has 9/10 games worth of PL experience and was valued at 35-45m. All I'm saying is that we needed a midfielder to come in at all cost. Someone who could possibly balance the midfield load with Pogba and we had ample opportunities to get one in but we didn't and that's what irks me. Like I said earlier, I don't even care if it wasn't Bruno but we should have gotten a midfielder. I even provided an example in Teilemans who fit the profile really well. He's 22 and proved in his short spell at Leicester what he was capable of and he went to Leicester for a measly 35m. Fine Bruno has all these deficiencies but why wasn't Teilemans chosen as an option?
That's where you're completely wrong. The first thing Ole said in his first interview is that we are United and we play our style of football and our style of football is the high intensity counter-attacking football and heavy use of wing play (with the added high pressing from the forwards). Mark my words but Ole and our coaching staff does not have the experience or brilliance like a Pep or the players for that matter to advocate possession-based football.
I'm not getting influenced by anyone. I've seen what a "fruitful" summer we've had in terms of transfers. Here are my key points I would like to mention. Firstly, it was out in the media that Bruno was never an option we considered and that it was stuff that the Portuguese press, his agent and the media are putting out. Then comes a statement stating that we considered Bruno but we found that he was too much of a risk-taker and wasn't a good fit and so on. Bruno may not be the perfect fit but he's definitely better than anyone we have in midfield (apart from Pogba). We needed a midfielder this summer with the loss of Fellaini and Herrera. Herrera more so because he was an important player for us and it's not like we decided against Bruno and Longstaff, we should stop there... I'm sure we had a long list of options of midfielders to consider to come to United.
This summer, midfielders that were possibly available
Ndombele
Lo Celso
Tielemans
Bruno Fernandes
Milinkovic Savic
Pjanic
Ceballos
Thomas Partey
Aouar
Leandro Paredes
And we couldn't get anyone in.
When Pogba leaves United, I don't believe we will try to replace him like for like. I think Ole will look to try and recreate the type of midfield he played in at United. I reckon the influence of Carrick will mean we will try and get a deep laying playmaker and a box-to-box midfielder to go alongside him. Pogba has the passing range but, for all his ability, and his ability to find Rashford on the run, the Scholes role doesn't come naturally to him. I imagine when Pogba goes the coaching staff will try and find the closest thing to a Carrick as they can, which is why I believe the claims that Longstaff was the midfielder we most seriously looked at for most of the window.
Thanks. Very interesting.
Who plays alongside Longstaff in such a midfield, according to statistical data fit for such a role?
I don't see how Longstaff is better than James Garner in the deep lying playmaker role. I would rather have him feature than bring in Longstaff for that role and invest in the box to box or an AM.
For what its worth, while I believe we were interested in Longstaff for the reasons I gave, I think that ship has sailed. Newcastle placing a ridiculous valuation on him has probably killed his chances of coming to Man Utd. Unless Newcastle get relegated and have a fire sire, or United continue to follow Longstaff until his contract begins to run down and Newcastle get desperate for a fee. I suspect United won't wait that long. Our need is too pressing and, as well as Pogba, we have to think Matic will be coming to an end soon and we've already lost Herrera (and Fellaini).
The fact that United, seemingly, went for Erikssen shows there was a plan B. Erikssen is also an attacking midfielder but, I think you could argue, he's more of a double pivot type player than Pogba.
I'm not a United scout but, I would imagine, if it was affordable United would love to get Ruben Neves.
I never said I thought that Longstaff was the player we should sign, I said I thought that the coaching staff were looking for a Carrick type player and that is what had drawn them to Longstaff. It seems obvious to me that Ole is trying to recreate the United team he played in.
The point I was trying to make is that Ole himself likened Garner to a young Carrick, so it would be weird for him to get Lonngstaff instead when he already has one tearing up the u23s.
I read an article a few months back about how Liverpool used ‘moneyball’ type data analysis to affirm their choice in Klopp, and then how he used similar which helped them to sign choose players like Salah, Mane, Robertson etc. The team is a finely tuned algorithm according to Klopp’s preferred tactics, style and intensity of play. Was fascinating and really converted me into the subject and approach.
So Longtaff/Neves could be the next Keane/Scholes type partnership? With Sancho and Rashford wide and Martial @ 9? Looks good!
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By this time next year i bet we'll see half of those as being 'bullets dodged' and there will be a new list of 10 names no one is mentioning right now we 'must sign'.
Why would it be weird? Most top clubs aim to have two good options for every position. Look across town, City can rotate Rodri and Fernandinho. Whereas, beyond Garner, the only natural number 6 in our squad is Matic. Anyone who watched preseason must conclude that Matic doesn't have the mobility or the quick thinking to help our defenders build from the back.
Even if you think Garner will grow into a full first teamer this season, or in the seasons to come, what happens if he gets suspended or injured or just needs a rest? We're back in the situation where we're playing Young against Messi cos we don't have a single specialist in the position when the first XI option can't play.
McTominay is playing as a 6 because there's nobody else. He's doing fine but, in reality, he's a box-to-box midfielder. Just like Fred is, just like Pogba is and Andreas is as much a 10 as an 8. I can see tons of reasons why Ole would prioritise bringing in a defensive midfielder. He brought in James when he already had Greenwood after all.
Even if its not those two I think something like that is what we are heading towards.
Pogba, for all of his gifts, sort of needs to be built around because there are some things you expect from a midfielder that he doesn't much like doing e.g. defending. He lacks that instinct for danger that allows him to take up the right positions during defensive transitions, and when you try to force him to do it...well we all saw him arguing with Mourinho on the touchline at Wembley 18 months ago.
When Pogba goes I imagine Ole will go for a more natural centre midfielder (or two). Not someone who he might need to mould into the role as he's had to do with Pogba.
This is the problem with playing too much FM and Career mode, you assume all those players wanted to come to us, you assume Ole wanted those players, you assume we didn’t go in for any of those players, you assume that Ole isn’t looking to Garner and Gomes and players like the 50 million pound Fred. Just remember we’re in the Europa League this year, we have a Europa league squad, that’s the reality. If we make Champions league next year we might go for a couple of top class players.
This is Ole’s first window though, what has happened since 2009 is not very relevant.
I’d it so hard to believe that we just didn’t want a player for whatever reason?
Have you got your boots?
They’re pretty worn at this stage showing Bruno how to pass.
That's the real issue here.
Sporting (and Sporting's supporters) would have been more than happy to sell Bruno Fernandes for the right price: 30-40M€. It would have been one of their biggest sales ever.
However, as soon as Benfica announced that Atletico had made an offer of 126M€ for João Félix (on June 26th), Sporting made it a point to not sell Bruno Fernandes for less than 70M€. It's like it was a matter of honour or something? So weird.
Unfortunately for Sporting, the real world does not work like that. This nonsense turned off pretty much every single buyer except for Tottenham.
The market immediately cooled down after EPL's trade deadline so I don't think anyone is going to make a better offer for Bruno Fernandes, let alone meeting the insane 70M€ price tag.
Well, scratch that... maybe a Jorge Mendes related team might pull the trigger (Valencia, Monaco, Atlético, Lazio or Napoli).
I watched him play a lot in the last 2 years. He's a great player, really, one of the best players in the league.
You're right, he's a big fish in a small pond and de would not score that much in England.
You would be happy with 10 assists plus 10 to 15 goals (depending on penalties) a season from him?
That's what I think he would be able to do as a regular starter for a top EPL team.
That was a very realistic price tag if you had pulled the trigger in early to mid June.
By the end of June (26th) Sporting's president skyrocketed his price because of the João Félix sale.
That's really it.
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Thats just wrong. Not one Sporting supporter was or is ok with Bruno going for 30-40M. We would be giving the by far best player in the league away for free. At first Sporting fans said minimum of 60M which is a very very fair price especially in today’s market, after Felix went for an insane non warranted fee of course the price of another asset in the same league would go up, that’s common sense.
Also our biggest transfer was João Mário for 45M. Also I hope Mendes is not involved or we would never see the full money like benfica and I don’t want the club to go that route.
IMO the fair sum for the player would be 60M with potential add ons based on goals scored, assists, games played, CL qualification etc.
Average players are going for 30M in today’s market. Centerbacks are going for borderline 100M. If Bruno played for Benfica no one would say 30M is a fair price but since it’s Sporting let’s all go take advantage. Sorry but it does not work like that.
We have a player that is head and shoulders above ever single player in the league and for 40M I would never let him go. That is absurd.
Also the big fish in a small pond analogy would make sense if Bruno could not go up a level. But he has the ability to play in bigger leagues and be a good player there.
Jonas for example was a big fish in a small pond and he is considered a legend in benfica despite only ever scoring against the small teams in Portugal. He has a grand total of 1 goal in the derby’s and it was a 90th minute penalty.
Let’s not compare apples to oranges here.
Raul Jimenez Benfica “sold” (Mendes is involved) for 45M so that is 5M more then you evaluate Bruno. So you are telling me Jimenez is better then Bruno? Please.
I hate bashing United but it seems our scouts do only one job. Write talents off. We have not signed a player recommended by our scouts since Herdnadez (might be wrong though) but we failed to sign plenty of good players due to some weird reasons. Isco had too big head and De Ligt had overwieght father or something.
Am I the only person happy our scouts are doing a good job? If he were 21 with a bad pass completion rate it'd be OK for everyone to complain about him not being given a chance. He's 24, with 7 seasons of league football behind him. His pass completion rate won't get much better because, by now, he's developed bad habits and we can't stop his bad habits (improve his pass completion rate to > 80%) without ruining his attacking game.
Your talking like he’s 30 Jesus.
Since when is 24/25 old for a footballer? Your prime is 28-32 (usually)
Those numbers all go up with better players around him. Not the trash he plays with currently where he has to orchestrate and do everything almost alone.
Which ever way you paint it you don’t accidentally score 34 goals and get 18 assists as a midfielder by accident.
Ndombele and Pjanic are the only two there that I would have actually wanted, at least at the prices we would have had to pay. Yes, it would have been good to get Ndombele. But Spurs can offer CL football, so what do you really expect?
Everyone else there is either not good enough, massively overpriced, unproven beyond hype at the top level, or doesn't fit the profile of the type of midfielder we need. All would have constituted buying for the sake of buying.
Wish people would forget about Longstaff. We have better players here, in Garner, and McTominay.
We missed out on Ndombele and Rodri and other better midfielders.
A good CDM like Ndombele will allow Pogba to play further up the pitch with all the freedom he wants. As it is, Pogs still made 2 assists last Monday, so not a total disaster. Replacing Pogba is the reason we'd go for someone like Fernandes. I like Fernandes - attacking and defensive game, a team player. But the scouts decided. People telling scouts how to do their job don't impress me. I know how old Fernandes is. I don't think he's 30. I wanted him, but I knew there was a big risk buying him. Turns out there were 2 big risks:
Anyhow. Please, please: first the #7. Bring Jadon here. Bring in a player who will definitely improve us at #7, and can certainly play in English PL.
- His pass completion stat
- He may not be able to reproduce his form in English PL. [I already posted about this. Noting how, in 20 years, we never bought a #10 who came anywhere near matching their assist/goals stat. prior to arriving at OT]
Anyhow. Please, please: first the #7. Bring Jadon here. Bring in a player who will definitely improve us at #7, and can certainly play in English PL.
I remember stating I didnt want him here because he takes too many risks similar to Pogba. It would be a disaster having both players in the same 11 knowing they love gifting the ball to opposition players. Youtube might not be the best tool for judging a players abilities but it does help. Glad we let this one go since sporting were quoting ridiculous transfer prices. Let this set a precedent that we are no longer the foolish United willing to spend outrageous amounts just because we are desperate.
Jimenez now has an EPL season under his belt and he proved he was worth what Wolves paid for him. They're pretty happy with him, with his production and what they paid for. 17 goals for a recently promoted team in the EPL is very good.
I do agree that he was not worth that much at the time he was bought though, but we all know that Wolves is a Mendes related club. That's the only reason Jimenez went for that much without having made a splash in the Champions League for Benfica.
He would not have sold for that much to non-Mendes related clubs.
Those massive transfers fees you're refering to, like Maguire for 100M... well, most of those players have EPL minutes under their belts already. English teams place a lot of stock in that. (or are very young or already play in a big league or have performed very well in the Champions League)
You can't compare portuguese players to those kinds of fees.
And that seems to be the issue here with Bruno Fernandes. Sporting is fixated on other team's deals so they ended up placing an outrageous price tag on Bruno Fernandes (70M€) which is way above his fair market value at this time (30-40M€).
If he had gone to an EPL team and performed well, of course his market value would rise to 50, 60, 70, 80M€ or whatever within 1 year (he is good enough to do very well in the EPL)... but that's not reality.
The reality is that he plays for a poor Sporting line-up in a poor League, so he is not worth as much.
Tottenham made a 45M€ bid for him and Sporting will regret not taking it. The only way out now is a Mendes related team.
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I understand what you're saying and I could agree with it but the market is way passed those numbers. You cant sell a Felix for 120M and then a Bruno for 30M, that just does not make sense.
Exactly he had the season he had in what you and I both know is a horrid Sporting side so what would he have done in a Benfica for example.
Lastly if he was a Benfica player do you genuinely believe he goes for 30M? Absolutely not.
I am pretty sure he would not have scored 28 goals last season if he was a starter for Benfica, because he would have to share shots a lot more. Maybe he would have more assists though.
If he had scored 28 goals for Benfica (league champions) or Porto (good CL run) he would be worth more, no doubt... but still not even close to 70M€ to a regular team. For a Mendes' team, yea, I could see him going for 70M€, just like I can see that happening for Sporting now.
Anyone that doesnt sign this bloke because of his passing needs to give their heads a wobble. If thats what people at the club are saying we're in more trouble than i thought. Hes a brilliant passer, amazing technique. I'd worry about his engine and defensive workrate, worrying about his passing is flat line stupid.
So you agree Felix was no where near Worth 120M and it was all Mendes deals?
Also Seferovic won the golden boot for Benfica...I have no doubt Bruno would score a minimum of 20 goals playing for Benfica.
If a dud like Seferovic can do it then anyone can.
João Félix is a 19 year old that took the league by storm and is already being talked about as a potential top3 player in the world somewhere down the line.
Come on... it's nonsense to compare their price tags at this time.
And that's exactly the problem here: JF's price tag messed with Sporting's head so much that they screwed BF's deal and, possibly, their whole season.
It's really amazing how much impact it had.
Yes in the same league that Bruno has dominated for 2 years. Felix never played in the CL nor had he completed a full season under his belt.
So once again I ask was Felix worth 120M?
As for the Felix deal affecting the Bruno deal I will say this. Sporting always wanted 60M that was the price tag they set on Bruno (which was a fair one based on the insane season he had) now once Felix went for an absurd over priced fee it only made sense for Sporting to increase the asking price from 60M to 70M. The market is flipped on its head. You say he is worth 35M and for the best player in the league I think that price is nonsense when we have had worse players go for more.
I won't be surprised if his name comes up again in January when we are looking for more reinforcements in midfield when our lack of midfield depth starts to show.
Why? We are not interested in this player.
At least it's a better reason than his head being disproportionately sized to the rest of his body or his father's BMI.
It does strike me that we have a player that was seemingly heart set on a move to United per rumors, only for them to never materialize. It was never quite as certain but reminds me of Morata dying his hair red.
As I said earlier you are conflating being a star (a key player) with being proven. They are not the same thing. Bruno Fernandes is definitely proven at serie A level
Why is this thread still going? People much more equipped and knowledgeable than anyone on here have put this guy in the discard pile
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Maybe because the so called experts at the club have got it so wrong for some 10 years, apart from carrick we had absolutely nada/zilch in midfield. (Sorry I couldnt resist this reply)
I thought someone who can score so many goals in a weaker league could at least score 15 goals and a good few assists.Im not overly worried about a few passes go awry if he can score.
In any case there can be no excuse for the club not to get someone decent in january or train some own growns up.
Fantastic goal! Up 2-0 but my god we are horrible. I have no clue how we are not losing this game.
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