Wolverhampton Wanderers 1:1 Manchester United

Majima · Aug 18, 2019

In Rainbows said:
You're not making any sense. I never said Pogba had all the responsibility in attack. I said the midfield (as a whole) has roles to do. Those roles being helping the attack, helping the defense, running the match through passing, and being its safest passing option. If Pogba does one job incredibly well, it means the midfield is doing well in that department. Note, the midfield, not the entire attack. So that means the midfield's other 2 players need to provide what Pogba doesn't provide so that the midfield as a whole gives to the team in all areas sufficiently. It doesn't matter how you accomplish this. What matters is the sum of the midfield accomplishes all its tasks.

Matic helps in no areas in an impactful manner. He's not the defensive equivalent of Pogba, Kante. He's not the passing maestro David Silva is. He's not the midfield's energy. Look at McTominay. He's not some specialist in defending, but he helps through his energy.

We all recognize Pogba's flaws as a player. Which means you want to compliment him by having your other midfielders provide what he lacks. It has nothing to do with catering to him. As a team you want all your players fitting one another as you want the best team possible. Who seeks out a team that doesn't fit playing next to one another? The reason why Pogba is a mainstay in the midfield is because he's really good at one portion of the midfield's roles.

Matic doesn't need to be complimented. He provides nothing special to the team. Take Pogba out and put in another midfielder and the team just loses its creative ability and doesn't get all that better in other areas unless they're good at those other roles. In which case, we just go back to the basic fact that Matic doesn't compliment that new player. Why? Because Matic is good at nothing.

It's funny that Juve had the best midfield in the world with Pogba in the team. Maybe because all 3 players complimented one another and all 3 provided certain roles at a really high level? Couldn't be. It's impossible because Pogba needs to be carried defensively. Nevermind the fact that he carries the United midfield's creative burden.

I feel like many posters here only look at the defensive side of the game as a requirement for the midfield and so the team has to "compensate" for Pogba. Meanwhile nobody applies that to the offensive responsibility and how the team has to compensate for Matic and McTominay's lack of ability for that role. Or how the team has to compensate for the entire midfield's inability to run the game through passing and technical quality. You could say the same with regards to energy and how McTominay is the only one providing in that area. All of which still leads to the fact that Matic provides nothing really. He's a placeholder, slow DM. DM in name only.

You sir talk too much sense

When Ole came in, one of the very first things he changed was to push Pogba further forward & bring Herrera back in to provide the cover. We then immediately won 7/7. We were absolutely flying, Pogba was flying and this was one of the key reasons. In Pogba's 'bad' games under Ole last season, it was invariably because he had to drop back to provide support to our failing midfield who couldn't do their job properly (I'm looking at you Matic!). You hit the nail on the head about Matic. Those forced changes was when it all started to go pear shaped last season along with the injuries. When the team was healthy and Pogba was further forward, we looked practically unstoppable. Sadly, that was that for last season, we never recovered.

It will be interesting to see how Ole tackles our defensive midfield organisation. I'm hoping this season, we can get back to that in a tactical sense, because a happy Pogba on top form is a sight to behold.

Those two matches vs Wolves last season were played under mitigating circumstances. We were in our lowest point under Ole with players dropping like flies. That won't be the case tomorrow. I am very optimistic about the match tomorrow. I believe we will come away with the 3 points for sure.

Michael T · Aug 18, 2019

I think Ole will go with the same starting eleven after the Chelsea win; I'm guessing he'll want to show his confidence in them.
Really praying for a good win to start putting distance between us and that troublesome group of Leicester, Wolves and Everton. Happy to see Chelsea looking dire too.
Pereira is my only doubt regarding the starting line-up; pretty sure he'll be substituted at some stage if he does start.
I've gone a 1-3 win for us, and a storming start to the season; Wolves to prove less of a hurdle for us this year.

Random Task · Aug 18, 2019

The score predictions column favour us massively. It's amazing what a 4-0 win over Chelsea can do for the fans' confidence, just before the game some has us pegged as relegation candidates.

2 man midfield · Aug 18, 2019

Win this and I'll start to believe in our progress. We had 2 cracks at this last season, and thanks to these bastards the wheels fell off.

peridigm · Aug 19, 2019

2 man midfield said:
Win this and I'll start to believe in our progress. We had 2 cracks at this last season, and thanks to these bastards the wheels fell off.

I wish we could say if we played them shortly after Ole took over we'd have done better in but Wolves had a 5-4-3 record against top 6 last season. They were simply better than us.

NYAS · Aug 19, 2019

It’s not just that we’d go top with a win. But the only other two teams who’d be on maximum points play each other next weekend.

2 man midfield · Aug 19, 2019

peridigm said:
I wish we could say if we played them shortly after Ole took over we'd have done better in but Wolves had a 5-4-3 record against top 6 last season. They were simply better than us.

Yeah of course they were, I wasn't saying otherwise.

MyOnlySolskjaer · Aug 19, 2019

Not easy at all. May be one of the toughest fixtures of the season away.

peridigm · Aug 19, 2019

2 man midfield said:
Yeah of course they were, I wasn't saying otherwise.

I wasn't implying that you were.

2 man midfield · Aug 19, 2019

peridigm said:
I wasn't implying that you were.

Ah, sorry. I misread your post.

Bastian · Aug 19, 2019

Jeppers7 said:
Well said, it's exactly that. It's crazy how people focus purely on defensive qualities and if you don't have them then we have to compensate yet defensive midfielders aren't compensated for ?

I think that's a simplification of the criticism that's been levelled at him.

To be a world class player you have to have world class dedication. He simply has not shown he has that. He's capable of the sublime and the diabolical. He can be extremely sloppy in possession, lacking concentration and application. And then of course, he can change games with great passing and vision.

When our team last season was collectively shit at defending, it was absolutely valid to question his commitment as we could not really afford to have a player relieved of defensive duties. And the very best teams do not have those sorts of players anyway. Unless you are a Ronaldo or a Messi. Authentic world class players.

@In Rainbows
I'm not sure you can break up a team into different components of "attacking" and "defending" qualities trying to find the right blend if you at the same time want to create a cohesive hard working unit that strives to fight harder than its opponents. Something doesn't work in that equation...

What is referred to here as "defensive qualities" could also just be spoken of as "willingness to fight for the team", which every player is physically capable of (not just about last ditch tackles and busting a gut to get back).

chromepaxos · Aug 19, 2019

Brightonian said:
If you didn't read the rest of the post, sure. Lingard is in there to man-mark Neves. Pereira wouldn't do that job anywhere near as well.

Oh, I read your post. i just don't think it's right. Jesse just isn't much of a man-marker and he is nowhere near as creative as Andreas. We will need that creativity against Wolves, plus Andreas ran more than anyone in the team against Chelsea - most sprints too.

If you really feel we should set up reactively to a team like Wolves - whose own supporters reckon will end around 10th this season - I understand. But you're wrong. :-)

In Rainbows · Aug 19, 2019

Bastian said:
@In Rainbows
I'm not sure you can break up a team into different components of "attacking" and "defending" qualities trying to find the right blend if you at the same time want to create a cohesive hard working unit that strives to fight harder than its opponents. Something doesn't work in that equation...

What is referred to here as "defensive qualities" could also just be spoken of as "willingness to fight for the team", which every player is physically capable of (not just about last ditch tackles and busting a gut to get back).

I disagree. It's the Juve model, which was classed as a top 2 midfield at the time. Pogba and Pirlo lacked energy, so Vidal worked really hard and was class on both sides of the ball. Pirlo although slow, defended through his positioning and distributed the ball with his class. Pogba provided that extra magic by dribbling at defenders, giving the killer pass or scoring a crazy goal. All 3 complimented one another and the midfield as a whole lacked nothing.

That isn't the only way to accomplish this btw, nor am I suggesting it is. Barca's midfield consisted of Xavi, Iniesta, and Busquets. Xavi was the constant passer, who is more mobile than Pirlo, but wasn't as good at positioning defensively. Busquets, nor Iniesta are as energetic as Vidal, but they don't have to be because there aren't two slow midfielders in Pirlo and Pogba. Iniesta is always buzzing around towards the ball or linking up with multiple players. Busquets is more mobile than Pirlo was, but was much better at breaking up plays, and didn't spray passes all over, but quickly supplied his teammates with his brain.

Similarly, if we had a more mobile DM like Garner, we wouldn't need some Vidal type midfielder to provide energy. We could do with a Modric type. There are multiple ways of achieving a complete midfield. I would prefer not having that Vidal type, though others might disagree. The reason why Vidal was needed and why Herrera/McTominay are needed is because the respective sides needed to cover for 2 slow midfielders.

Once the midfield is complete, you can emphasize possession, or defensive solidity, or go with extra work horses. Real Madrid's midfield had Kroos, Modric, and Casemiro. There are no slow midfielders really, but a lot of great possession type midfielders. It doesn't lack for anything really unless you value physical dominance.

Adnan · Aug 19, 2019

Moutinho is the key for them. Keep him quiet and we'll win comfortably IMO.

Santoryo · Aug 19, 2019

Why is a news about Ashley Cole retirement posted in the match thread?

red4ever 79 · Aug 19, 2019

Confident it will be the same starting XI and the same 3 subs to come on again

romufc · Aug 19, 2019

Although Wolves are a very good team, fans are happy to settle for a 1-1 draw. Is it just me or this shows how far we have dropped? Anything but a win is failure against these teams IMO. Liverpool went to Southampton and won, Arsenal went to Newcastle and won.

Last year Wolves had the better of alot of top 6 clubs, but you shouldn't have them doing you over every game.

If we are realistic about top 4, this is a must win considering Arsenal won.

Riz · Aug 19, 2019

romufc said:
Although Wolves are a very good team, fans are happy to settle for a 1-1 draw. Is it just me or this shows how far we have dropped? Anything but a win is failure against these teams IMO. Liverpool went to Southampton and won, Arsenal went to Newcastle and won.

Last year Wolves had the better of alot of top 6 clubs, but you shouldn't have them doing you over every game.

If we are realistic about top 4, this is a must win considering Arsenal won.

Although I agree we shouldn't "settle" for a draw, let's not compare Wolves to the likes of Southampton and Newcastle who are both teams that battled relegation last season. Wolves are a very good team and they had our number last year so they'll not be short on confidence of doing a job on us again.

I think a win would be a massive result for us, not only to banish another demon from last season but also for the albeit small psychological impact of going top of the league after 2 games having played 2 of the more difficult fixtures already. I think even a small boost like that is something Ole could really use to galvanise this team who've lacked a lot of belief in recent years. I'm not saying we're going to challenge for the league, far from it, but building a bit of momentum at the beginning of the season allowing spirits to rise and the new signings to settle in could be the difference in our season compared to how quickly things could go off the rails with a string of bad results, downed tools etc.

Schmeichel's Cartwheel · Aug 19, 2019

romufc said:
Although Wolves are a very good team, fans are happy to settle for a 1-1 draw. Is it just me or this shows how far we have dropped? Anything but a win is failure against these teams IMO. Liverpool went to Southampton and won, Arsenal went to Newcastle and won.

Last year Wolves had the better of alot of top 6 clubs, but you shouldn't have them doing you over every game.

If we are realistic about top 4, this is a must win considering Arsenal won.

Wolves are closer to Arsenal and Chelsea than they are Southampton and Newcastle, who are both relegation fodder. Getting a point would not be a bad result. Obviously we all want to win, but it's a tough game. It's technically the 6th best vs. the 7th best in the league, not the 2nd best vs. the 15th best as your comparison would suggest.

This is not a "must win" game if we are going to get top 4, don't be silly. Arsenal's opening 2 games have been against considerably weaker opposition than ours, and they've scraped by in both.

Litch · Aug 19, 2019

Tough place to go but equally let's not talk like we are going to Barca away. We've had chances in both games and not taken them especially the early ones.....

RedEM10 · Aug 19, 2019

Waiting on a Man Utd win for my work syndicate bet now too for a nice lift.... Get me that bread Rashford and you will be forgiven for all your pot shots from 40 yards

Schmeichel's Cartwheel · Aug 19, 2019

Litch said:
Tough place to go but equally let's not talk like we are going to Barca away. We've had chances in both games and not taken them especially the early ones.....

They played us off the park in the cup game. We should have won both league games though yeah.

Litch · Aug 19, 2019

Schmeichel's Cartwheel said:
They played us off the park in the cup game. We should have won both league games though yeah.

Yep, def tough place to go but there's more than a few of them in this league now. I think there's that many, it's almost worth no longer making that statement!!! I just think we can talk ourselves into something when in reality, a different mindset might get a different outcome.

StrettyEnder07 · Aug 19, 2019

Hard hard game tonight, they will press and try to suffocate us, want us to play in front of them and close down any space in behind, look to his us on the counter and sit deep.

Think we will need to be patience and play well between the lines. I can see the same starting 11, with Pereira's assist last week that will keep him in the side IMO.

If we are struggling to break them down could see James/Gomes/Greenwood later on if we need something different.

Gonna go for a tight sneaky 1-2 win, if we can nab a win tonight that will be some start to the season as fancy us on Saturday against Palace.

Can7onA · Aug 19, 2019

Please win, I live in Wolverhampton and have been giving it the big un all week. :nervous:

Dante · Aug 19, 2019

Adnan said:
Moutinho is the key for them. Keep him quiet and we'll win comfortably IMO.

Yeah.

If anyone is going to need man marking, it's Moutinho.

It should really be McTominay's job, but that'll be tricky in a midfield 2.

Cassidy · Aug 19, 2019

Do we have another option when the counter isn't on? Today we'll find out about our tactical evolution. Our midfield will be tested today also.

Hoping we pass the test, I think a win today would give the squad a lot of confidence

FootballHQ · Aug 19, 2019

romufc said:
Although Wolves are a very good team, fans are happy to settle for a 1-1 draw. Is it just me or this shows how far we have dropped? Anything but a win is failure against these teams IMO. Liverpool went to Southampton and won, Arsenal went to Newcastle and won.

Last year Wolves had the better of alot of top 6 clubs, but you shouldn't have them doing you over every game.

If we are realistic about top 4, this is a must win considering Arsenal won.

Chelsea and Arsenal also lost at Molineux last season and drew the home games 1-1 so actually you three all posted the same sequence of results home and away to Wolves.

It wasn't a deal breaking game to make top 4, that was more drawing at Huddersfield.

Interesting game. Wolves had big europa play off on Thursday but would imagine they'll put their first choice 11 out. Draw feels the right sort of result for this, 2-2.

BusbyMalone · Aug 19, 2019

Cassidy said:
Do we have another option when the counter isn't on? Today we'll find out about our tactical evolution. Our midfield will be tested today also.

Hoping we pass the test, I think a win today would give the squad a lot of confidence

That's my biggest worry about this game. That's why i was always more worried about this game than the Chelsea one. When we can counter attack we're fine. But breaking down a defence that sits deep is something we've struggled with for a few seasons now. That's why i think we could see Mata in this game.

Santoryo · Aug 19, 2019

romufc said:
Although Wolves are a very good team, fans are happy to settle for a 1-1 draw. Is it just me or this shows how far we have dropped? Anything but a win is failure against these teams IMO. Liverpool went to Southampton and won, Arsenal went to Newcastle and won.

Last year Wolves had the better of alot of top 6 clubs, but you shouldn't have them doing you over every game.

If we are realistic about top 4, this is a must win considering Arsenal won.

Also shows how dramatic some fans are. For some reasons some people are convinced that Wolves have a better team than us. I call that being dramatic.

Litch said:
Tough place to go but equally let's not talk like we are going to Barca away. We've had chances in both games and not taken them especially the early ones.....

Pretty much this

Inigo Montoya · Aug 19, 2019

Santoryo said:
Also shows how dramatic some fans are. For some reasons some people are convinced that Wolves have a better team than us. I call that being dramatic.

Pretty much this

They don't but play much better as a team or should I say, they played much better last season as a team.

Tonight will be interesting though. We've started much more positively than last season's dire 2-1 against Leicester

bondsname · Aug 19, 2019

I've waited more than a week and now the day has finally come and it feels surreal. Can't believe what this wonderful club has done with me.

Wolves will be tough to beat and I think they will drag me back to reality tonight, our counter attacking style won't work as they'll sir back and press aggressively when the opportunity arrives. United players have a tendency to sulk and complain as soon as it doesn't go their way, leading to lack of focus and frustration.

Wolves are going to be up our ass all evening and it will be too much for our players to handle.

CassiusClaymore · Aug 19, 2019

Cassidy said:
Do we have another option when the counter isn't on? Today we'll find out about our tactical evolution. Our midfield will be tested today also.

Hoping we pass the test, I think a win today would give the squad a lot of confidence

Yes, the corner train routine stolen from the England national side. Maguire, 1 nil.

Nori- · Aug 19, 2019

I know its still early in the season but this game is either going to be a huge moral boost or a kick in the teeth.

We really struggled with Wolves last season, losing our last two games two them. Tonight we will really know if we've improved over the summer.

I'm nervous but excited at the same time. Come on Boys!

Sir Scott McToMinay · Aug 19, 2019

Annoying team, really hope we beat them proper.

Shark · Aug 19, 2019

We scored an early goal last time, started rather well and then collapsed once they got the equalizer. You’d hope our defense is better prepared now.

charlenefan · Aug 19, 2019

Both looking forward to and dreading tonights game. A win really would be massive even only 2 games into the season

KennyBurner · Aug 19, 2019

Its that time of the year where I leave work early to watch the game. Im begging you United please dont make me regret it.

Inigo Montoya · Aug 19, 2019

Shark said:
We scored an early goal last time, started rather well and then collapsed once they got the equalizer. You’d hope our defense is better prepared now.

It was Lingard and Lukaku who missed 2 sitters when they were really down. Once they equalised through some shit defending from Jones they gained confidence. The sending off just rubbed salt into the wound.

You’d hope this time with a more mobile attack, Slabhead in defence and AWB on the right, we won’t be as fragile. It’s the midfield that does concern me though. Mct I’m not worried about, it’s whether Pereira and Lingard can impose themselves on Neves and Moutinho

DatIrishFella · Aug 19, 2019

I predicted a 3-0 win against Chelsea. We won 4-0.

I predict a 0-2 this time.

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