Are we in pole position to sign Longstaff?
Wilfred Ndidi - Leicester Player
- Thread starter IrishRedDevil
- Start date
His post match interview was fantastic, he couldn't even lift his head up in disappointment despite rectifying his mistake by scoring a goal. You look at his temperament in rescuing a point against Chelsea compared to the dross individuals at our club who clearly don't have a care in the world about their performances. Brilliant mentality.
While I agree with this, he would have gotten crucified at a top 6 club for a mistake like that. It's why Andreas won't play as a number 6 for United anymore (similar mistake last season against Burnley).
This is true, but I'm sure people would give more leeway to Ndidi because he does a lot more on the defensive side of the game.
Yeah that and the fact that he’s pretty shitty defensive wise.
If Ndidi moves to big clubs, he will get lot of criticism. For a defensive midfielder who don't create many chances, his pass completion percentage is very poor. Even in the first game when Leicester had 70% possession (that's when you expect your players to have high pass completion %), his pass % was 78%, yesterday it was 79%. His career average is 78%.
If he moves to big club (with due respect to Leicester) then there will be plenty of criticism on his poor pass completion.
If he moves to big club (with due respect to Leicester) then there will be plenty of criticism on his poor pass completion.
I don't know, it depends on what you expect from him. I'm one of those who would like him here, but I would never expect anything great with his passing. His role would simply be to mop up with his defensive quality because he's a destroyer. Ideally, United should have a DM that is top class on the ball. But a destroyer as a squad player isn't a bad thing at all.
Gueyi was at 84-85% for Everton in the PL. Kante, this season is at 79%, but in his last 3 seasons was 88-90% and with Leicester was 82%. Ndidi was at 76-80%. I would have preferred Gueyi if he was younger. I would rather have Ndidi because he fits the timeline of our young core much better. Of course, I would also take Kante, but he's currently with Chelsea so that's why I've never brought him up.
We currently don't have a destroyer, so I would like to give TFM a chance at that role. Again, I would not expect some great passing midfielder. I would just want that player to break up play because they're great at tackling, have great work rate, and are physically dominant to bully players to win back the ball. We're currently missing that as McTominay is more of a box to box player.
Kante thing is just so out of context there. He regularly averages high 80s in every season and this season he played just 1 game and came on as a sub. In Ndidi's case, every season his % is in 70s. Gueye also averages around 85% which isn't bad at all, but in Ndidi's case it's around 78-79% which is worrying for a non creative CM.
I agree with the point that what we expect from midfielders is important, but surely for a non creative CM/DM, most basic thing you expect is not to give the ball away?
I brought up Kante because he is the pinnacle for that type of player. It was a reference point. I don't bring up points only to support my argument. I try to be as objective as possible and I wanted people to see how much better Kante was. Same thing with Gueye who is also tidier on the ball to a lesser extent.
Now back to the argument, with those types of players, they're not great with the ball. However, even with Matic (around 88%) and McTominay (83%), we're not dominating possession. This is because they're also not great with the ball and so can't turn and go past players like Frenkie de Jong, nor can they use their brilliant technique and 1 touch passing to dissuade the opposition from pressing.
So why would Ndidi be beneficial? Because if we're acknowledging we're not going to dominate possession even with players slightly better on the ball, the advantage Ndidi brings is that we're much more solid defensively. Ndidi would solve one problem in our midfield, that is the midfield's role in protecting the back 4. With Pogba and Ndidi, the midfield now does 2 required tasks (creating and defending) really well and only needs 1 more player who is brilliant with his passing and technique. Without a player like Ndidi, United are only good at creating due to Pogba's presence and still lacks in defending the back 4 and dominating possession.
And that's fantastic ? A horrible mistake like that, is sure to haunt him for a day or two. That's a normal reaction I'd say
I'm not saying we shouldn't sign Ndidi, he is brilliant defensive midfielder. I'm saying he will get plenty of criticism for losing possession so many times in the game, especially for a non creative CM/DM.
Regarding Kante and Gueue, check their pass completion percentage and it's very good. So Ndidi is like them in winning possession but lot worse when it comes to passing.
A classic grass is greener player. He’s nowhere near good enough on the ball to hack it at a top club. Think Schneiderlin but worse.
We don't currently have a squad option like Ndidi. I'm in agreement that a player like that is not the ideal defensive midfielder for United. He would be a good squad option right now though, but it's too late regardless. We didn't sign a midfielder this summer so it's a moot sticking point. Right now our best bet is to turn one of our non-defensive midfielders into DMs for the time being or just forsake that role entirely which is what we're currently doing.
We don't have a defensive specialist because Matic is too slow and his instincts aren't all that sharp. He's basically a dm by default because he lacks pace and is big.
If I wanted someone “good on the ball” then I’d look at Neves or Longstaff. We need both types of midfielders, it’s not one or the other.
In terms of his mistake yesterday, someone like Ndidi shouldn’t be picking up the ball in that area. Tielemans should have been there. It’s like when Fred did that at Wolves last season. It’s not their game. I wouldn’t even put Pogba in that position and he’s as technical as they come.
Ndidi is consistently one of the greatest tacklers in the league and is young. I’d absolutely love us to sign him.
In terms of his mistake yesterday, someone like Ndidi shouldn’t be picking up the ball in that area. Tielemans should have been there. It’s like when Fred did that at Wolves last season. It’s not their game. I wouldn’t even put Pogba in that position and he’s as technical as they come.
Ndidi is consistently one of the greatest tacklers in the league and is young. I’d absolutely love us to sign him.
I believe we don't need more squad options. Matic, McTominay and Fred are all squad options (if we can even call Fred that based on last year), despite people here believing one of them is the reincarnation of Keane or something. Only Pogba and earlier Herrera are genuinely players you want to be starting. The others start becuase we don't have better.
So yeah, I think we need to add definite quality to the squad. Whether they're 19 or 27, is not the question. They have to have that sort of talent. Also for a team that wants to become better on the ball, we should probably sign more players who are good on the ball. A deep lying playmaker would be great but if not at least a tackler who has some quality on the ball.
Obviously if Ndidi is absolutely ready to be a starter for us and we accompany signing him with a brilliant playmaking 8 then I'm all for it.
Ndidi got caught and no one gave him a shout either. But Matic has been caught in possession many times and our defence has to bail him out many times. At least Ndidi scored and atoned for his mistake. He looks a strong lad too. When was the last time our midfield or our defence scored from a header?
That was his first headed goal for Leicester and 2nd in his career. Pogba scored 1 last season and 4 in total for ManUtd.
He's a good pure DM but he's well down the list of CM's I'd want us to buy as I want more on the ball from players in any position for United.
I keep seeing some united fans saying this but on what basis? He’s constantly shuttled out on loan and done nothing to show that hes ready for this level, never mind moving to a crucial central role. He’s also had a bad injury so it remains to be seen how that will affect him. I suspect that he will eventually be sold or released.
Not good enough on the ball/passing for us.
100%
Extremely committed player, great ball winner, very useful Prem player, but I watched 7 Prem games this weekend (yeah I know) and he was probably the worst midfielder in possession I saw, though obviously his strengths defensively make him more valuable than the guys who are a bit better on the ball but far worse in that regard (your Dale Stephen-es and the Norwich guys).
I think Maddison (us or Arsenal if Ceballos doesn't stay), Pereira (Arsenal, Chelsea or Liverpool, I think this one happens next summer), Chilwell (us or Spurs or City if they give up on Mendy, as he'd similarly be able to rack up assists against bad teams then get benched for Zinchenko against good ones), Tielemans (us or Arsenal) and Vardy (don't see him leaving) would all do better at bigger clubs than he would and should eventually get moves.
I agree. He usually coughs up the ball in his own end once a game & while it doesn't always get punished it is a bit scary. At 22 I think he can improve but he is not quite ready for a "big" club
Seems like he is improving a bit all the time. Still only 22.
While there appears to be quite a few good options too Maddison, I really struggle to see many players at the same level as Ndidi in the same position.
While there appears to be quite a few good options too Maddison, I really struggle to see many players at the same level as Ndidi in the same position.
He’s a top player, but not somebody we should be aiming for. He’d cost us insane money and there’s plenty of good ball winning midfielders out there, we’ve just got to find them.
Wow that surprised me, feels like he's been around for ages now
Plenty of good average ball winning midfielders, but not many exceptional. Very few, I would argue. What I really like about him is the way he brings balance.
I do not intend to talk Kante down, but he is a bit different and more of a pressing/chasing ball winner. Ndidi, IMO, is more like Carrick/Keane (of the ball, that is).
When you look at the statistics so far this season he has 3,6 interceptions every 90 min. Of midfielders with more than 600 min in the top five leagues in Europe, Casamiro and Mascarell comes closest with 3,0. Meaning he has twenty percent more than the second best players. In terms of tackles he makes 6,7 attempts per 90 min (5 successful tackles per 90 min). Allan and Romeu is the only ones that comes close with 6,6 and 6,3, but while Ndidi success rate is 74,6 % their success rate is significantly lower (66,67 % and 60 %). Usually I would not put too much weight on these numbers, but these are truly exceptional.
His numbers is actually strikingly similar to Kante when Leicester won the league. Kante made 6,9 tackles with a success rate of 75,36 % and had 4,6 (!) interception every 90 min, but not quite as good. That being said, the Leicester team of today keeps the ball more giving Ndidi less of a chance to match his numbers. And Kante is one of a kind, to be honest. It is also worth remembering that Ndidi is a couple of years younger than Kante was at the same time.
I'm not sure if he would be a great fit for a team with even higher ambitions than Leicester. But it is worth noticing that he does this for a very good team in the Premier League. It is also worth noticing that he keeps improving on all areas all the time. He is still a couple of years younger than players like Kante, KdB, Mane, VvD, Salah, Winjaldum, Fabinho etc was when they arrived at Chelsea, Man City and Liverpool. If he is not ready at 22, I can see him being more than ready at 24.
His numbers is actually strikingly similar to Kante when Leicester won the league. Kante made 6,9 tackles with a success rate of 75,36 % and had 4,6 (!) interception every 90 min, but not quite as good. That being said, the Leicester team of today keeps the ball more giving Ndidi less of a chance to match his numbers. And Kante is one of a kind, to be honest. It is also worth remembering that Ndidi is a couple of years younger than Kante was at the same time.
I'm not sure if he would be a great fit for a team with even higher ambitions than Leicester. But it is worth noticing that he does this for a very good team in the Premier League. It is also worth noticing that he keeps improving on all areas all the time. He is still a couple of years younger than players like Kante, KdB, Mane, VvD, Salah, Winjaldum, Fabinho etc was when they arrived at Chelsea, Man City and Liverpool. If he is not ready at 22, I can see him being more than ready at 24.
I would love to see him in a ManUtd shirt next season 
I think the interesting thing is that he's improved his pass completion this season whilst also increasing the number of long passes he's played. Previously his pass completion was terrible considering how limited his passing range was.
Ndidi himself is not exceptional.
As a ball winner he's one of the best about currently
There are a lot of players who are better and also has the same potential as him currently.
When it comes to tackles and interceptions there's no one in Europe's top 5 leagues winning as many as him. Which players do you think are better than him?
Personally I'm a massive fan of Abdoulaye Doucouré - he's such a beast.
I think the *problem* with Ndidi would be very similar to Wan Bissaka.
A monster defensively as stats suggest, but another player whose skills elsewhere are lacking. Depends what we as a team want, really. Having an actual holding midfielder in our side would be fantastic, but it would be another player to add sluggish football to when we’re struggling to score goals and create chances.
That being said, how many defensive midfielders in football actually have passing and technical ability to match their actual defensive stats? Off the top of my head: Fabinho, Fernandinho, Matic a few years back perhaps. It is quite a short list.
A monster defensively as stats suggest, but another player whose skills elsewhere are lacking. Depends what we as a team want, really. Having an actual holding midfielder in our side would be fantastic, but it would be another player to add sluggish football to when we’re struggling to score goals and create chances.
That being said, how many defensive midfielders in football actually have passing and technical ability to match their actual defensive stats? Off the top of my head: Fabinho, Fernandinho, Matic a few years back perhaps. It is quite a short list.
Camavinga is one to watch, good defensive stats and passing stats. Had two games earlier in the season where he misplaced only 1 pass in each game. 16 years old.
https://www.whoscored.com/Players/369109/Show/Eduardo-Camavinga
Is "exceptional" ball winner only be viewed based on tackles & interception. I expect an "exceptional ball winner" not to be a limit midfielder. The hype is unreal when it comes to only tackles & interception just like Morgan Schneiderlin was.
Kante & Casemiro are example of exceptional.
Both Gueye & Partey are up ahead of him at the moment.
Zakaria is another player who has the same potential or could be higher with cheaper fees.
Even McTomminay has talent to become top ball winning midfielder in the future & cost zero for us.
I'm sure Leicester won't sell this guy for cheap, can see them trying to sell for above 50m and he's not that exceptional to spend that much.
He's limited for sure. He's a pure DM. I've never argued that we should sign him. I don't think there's any reasonable expectation that an exceptional ball winner should have to have other outstanding attributes as well. A player can just be an exceptional ball winner.
That said, it looks like he is improving his passing this season a bit.
When a player is called exceptional then there is some expectation. If the expectation doesn't meet then he is not exceptional. Be careful when using a word, players are often being called overrated.
Being a ball winner is a very specific part of the game. I think you're going a little over the top in your sensitivity to the semantics. He is an exceptional ball winner. That doesn't mean he's a great all round player. I'm sure the vast majority of people understand that.