Wolverhampton Wanderers 1:1 Manchester United

montpelier · Aug 20, 2019

I think we all have concerns about the MF & even up the top too, depthwise at least. Policy has changed on throwing money about for the sake of it, allegedly. Squad is still packed with overpaid deadwood / centre backs.

I don't know how anyone is particularly cheesed off about starting with 4pts from this pair of games, though.

talking robot · Aug 20, 2019

The result at home against Chelsea was an improvement on last season (we drew against them at home), and the draw against Wolves away was also an improvement (we lost there). Given that we drew against Palace at home last term, if we beat them on the weekend, I'd say that's a positive start to the season.

VJ1762 · Aug 21, 2019

I was not at all happy with the refereeing in the last match. I came across this post in r/reddevils. Credit to u/seaders for this excellent content.

At half-time, I was happy with how things had gone, but was quite worried that the ref was going to crumble to the pressure of the crowd, and likely send Dan James off. At full-time, I was crazily frustrated, and felt that that was one of the worst refereeing displays I've seen in a long, long time - especially in this new VAR World.

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There were a few more in the first half, but these were the clear "egregious" ones,

07' - Dan James -

Here, we didn't get a replay, so I've only this clip to go on, and it may have been a dive. Sure, it may have. I have absolutely no idea why Dan would go down there, after beating his man (Neves), but it sure looks like it was a trip. "Play on".

24' - Dan James -

Here, we can clearly see contact with Moutinho's boot, causing Moutinho to "self-trip", and James to stumble. No foul, but certainly no dive. "Dive, yellow card".

51' AWB/Boly -

Here, we can clearly see Boly touching AWB's throughball from Lingard, who would have been clear through on goal, good defending, corner. "Goal kick". (Wolves went up the pitch and won the free-kick which they hit the post from, and then won the corner they scored from)

83' AWB -

Here, we can clearly see AWB bend down, to deflect the ball clearly with the top part of his shoulder, with the ball damn near hitting his bloody neck. "Handball, yellow card".

The other angle of this - makes it all the worse. From Moss' positioning, he either could perfectly see the contact, and just incorrectly / incompetently chose to call it as a handball, for no particular reason, or he couldn't see it at all, and just guessed it's a handball.

85' Dan James -

Here, we see... this. Obviously this is another dive by Dan James, and should finally have been sent off by Moss for simulation... "Fair shoulder-to-shoulder challenge, play on".

87' Martial - (https://i.imgur.com/t2rwnKj.png)

Here, we see Martial clearly still onside, or at least close enough to let play continue, and then review with VAR. "Offside, stop play instantly, no review, free out".

Those last 3 were particularly important, IMO. In the final 10 minutes, we'd caught Wolves counter-attacking, but stopped with a bogus handball call, 2 minutes later we're in an okay position to apply pressure, and one of our player is just completely barged over and no foul, and then 2 minutes later, an incorrect / hasty offside is called, and our last "real" attack of the game is foiled.

We were wrecked by the ref's performance last night, absolutely wrecked.

There was plenty of things wrong that we need to correct about with our own performance (leaving Neves free, outside the box from a corner really is criminally bad), but make no mistake about it, in this new VAR world, I consider the game last night to be a complete embarrassment.

The game finished with Wolves having 17 fouls, and us 8. 2 of our fouls were James' "dive", and AWB's "handball", so realistically it should have been 17 6. We each finished the game with 2 yellow cards. For Wolves 17 fouls, which averages out at about a foul every 5 minutes, or if you apply that to our possession time (65% possession = ~58.5min), it's a foul every 3.5 minutes. And they received 2 yellow cards only.

included for completeness only

21' Pogba -

Late "studs" tackle on the top of Pogba's foot, after he passes the ball of. Would be a yellow most days of the week. Foul.

28' Pogba -

A scuffle happens while Moutinho's on the ground. He plays the ball while on the ground, and pulls it under his body (this is actually dangerous play, and a foul... but they're never, ever given). Pogba tries to get his toe on the ball, and touches Moutinho's thigh. Moutinho screams and rolls around for about an hour. Foul.

56' VAR Check -

Dunno about any of ye, but I certainly wouldn't consider that check to be conclusive. I don't think they were offside though, and just consider we should have had the same opportunity, with Martial's "offside", he was easily as close as this moment.

63' Pogba (penalty) - https://i.imgur.com/hQEBf7k.gifv

There's definite encroachment here, but I'm only including it for completeness. I'm not sure of the rules here, but I think, because Coady wasn't the man to clear the ball, he doesn't count as "interfering with the play", so he doesn't count as encroaching. Was he close enough to Pogba? Could it have been retaken? Meh. Dunno.

87' James - https://i.imgur.com/XthxGz3.gifv

Neves fouls James, when he's breaking away. It was about his 200th, 300th foul of the night. About his 100th while on a yellow. Foul. Nothing more.

93' Shaw - https://i.imgur.com/pGOTc5y.gifv

Complete nothing call in the last minute of the game. If you notice Moss, he blows just as Shaw goes to shoot. Real "nothing" moment, but it just highlights how the game was being refereed. The foul he didn't give vs. James a few minutes ago, and then this "foul" against Pereira. Foul, free-out.

94'

No clip here, but despite plenty of time being wasted after 90 minutes, Moss blows up at 90' on the nose.

How the feck is Jon moss still allowed to referee in Pl games? Don't they review the performances of PL referees annually?

GiddyUp · Aug 21, 2019

VJ1762 said:
I was not at all happy with the refereeing in the last match. I came across this post in r/reddevils. Credit to u/seaders for this excellent content.
His physique should be enough to disqualify him from refereeing a premier league game.

How the feck is Jon moss still allowed to referee in Pl games? Don't they review the performances of PL referees annually?

nainaisson · Aug 21, 2019

Lee565 said:
8 months on and I still done get why fellaini was moved on, once again when the going was getting tough in the second half we could have done with a warrior like fellaini in the middle of the park disrupting wolves play and causing havoc in their penalty area.

Agreed. Ironically, we have Maguire performing a similar role at set pieces in the opposition box, so it's not like using a target man is beneath Ole. My guess is, Ole made it clear to Fellaini that he'd only be used as a Plan B off the bench, and Fellaini, who sees himself deserving of a regular starting position, forced his way out in the January window.

romufc said:
Can we re-brand to Stoke City?

That's a really funny and original comment. I haven't read it a thousand time before already.

The Boy · Aug 21, 2019

View from outside the Utd bubble!

Lots of people here have said, they don't mind the results as long as there is a clear strategy and the players give their best, well you have a clear strategy and I haven't seen Utd work that hard for a long long time
2 games 2 goals for Martial and Rashford
Apart from the start of the 2nd half you were clearly the dominant team and deserved to win by a couple more goals
Your new signings are fitting in brilliantly
Pogba missed a penalty ... it happens, his conversion rate is still better than Rooney's!
Molineaux is one of the tougher grounds to go in the league, plenty of others will drop points here as well, you were very unlucky
Players you often complain about are playing their hearts out, Martial is the best example, he was great under LvG playing through the middle, faded under Mou out on the wing, playing brilliantly again under Ole back through the middle
Your team is looking better than it has done for years, carry on like this and you'll be fine, you've got everything you wanted so far

The Boy · Aug 21, 2019

talking robot said:
The result at home against Chelsea was an improvement on last season (we drew against them at home), and the draw against Wolves away was also an improvement (we lost there). Given that we drew against Palace at home last term, if we beat them on the weekend, I'd say that's a positive start to the season.

I'd add this to the list of positives above as well, that's a 3 point improvement on last season already, a 6 point improvement would see you into top 4 on last seasons standings

minh_loc_xoay · Aug 21, 2019

talking robot said:
The result at home against Chelsea was an improvement on last season (we drew against them at home), and the draw against Wolves away was also an improvement (we lost there). Given that we drew against Palace at home last term, if we beat them on the weekend, I'd say that's a positive start to the season.

I can't shake the dreadful feeling that these 2 points dropped may cost us out of top 4 at the end of the season... :nervous:

nainaisson · Aug 21, 2019

The Boy said:
Players you often complain about are playing their hearts out, Martial is the best example, he was great under LvG playing through the middle, faded under Mou out on the wing, playing brilliantly again under Ole back through the middle

It was Van Gaal who moved Martial to the wing, not Mourinho. Martial injured himself in the warm up to a Europa League game, and Rashford ended up replacing him as striker for the rest of the season.

I'm not sure why Ole switched their positions, but I think it has something to do with Rashford's off the ball work. He's more likely to track back and help Shaw out, and I think he's the overall better presser.

RedTiger · Aug 21, 2019

minh_loc_xoay said:
I can't shake the dreadful feeling that these 2 points dropped may cost us out of top 4 at the end of the season...

Look at it another way, all the contenders have to go the Molineux and win.

Sean_RedDevil · Aug 21, 2019

First of all i live in NYC since a few weeks and wow to watch a Manchester United match in the office at 3 pm is so feckin weird :lol:

A point before the match would have been good against a very good side and at a difficult place.....now it feels a bit bad because big opportunity missed for a major result.....to start with 6 points with that fixture list and then Crystal Palace & Southampton as next opponents would have been brilliant.

Tincanalley · Aug 21, 2019

The Boy said:
View from outside the Utd bubble!

Lots of people here have said, they don't mind the results as long as there is a clear strategy and the players give their best, well you have a clear strategy and I haven't seen Utd work that hard for a long long time

2 games 2 goals for Martial and Rashford

Apart from the start of the 2nd half you were clearly the dominant team and deserved to win by a couple more goals

Your new signings are fitting in brilliantly

Pogba missed a penalty ... it happens, his conversion rate is still better than Rooney's!

Molineaux is one of the tougher grounds to go in the league, plenty of others will drop points here as well, you were very unlucky

Players you often complain about are playing their hearts out, Martial is the best example, he was great under LvG playing through the middle, faded under Mou out on the wing, playing brilliantly again under Ole back through the middle

Your team is looking better than it has done for years, carry on like this and you'll be fine, you've got everything you wanted so far

Thanks, all decent points, esp on Pogba/Rooney

Eternitiy · Aug 21, 2019

nainaisson said:
It was Van Gaal who moved Martial to the wing, not Mourinho. Martial injured himself in the warm up to a Europa League game, and Rashford ended up replacing him as striker for the rest of the season.

I'm not sure why Ole switched their positions, but I think it has something to do with Rashford's off the ball work. He's more likely to track back and help Shaw out, and I think he's the overall better presser.

The good thing about Martial and Rashford is that they're both capable of playing fluid, dynamic football and interchanging positions throughout the game. I also agree that Martial's flaws (when it comes to pressing and tracking back) are less exposed when he's primarily playing through the middle.

Regardless, it's so refreshing to watch us without Lukaku!

Sereques · Aug 21, 2019

The reaction of fans to this result have bizarre. Complaining about signings, saying weird things like Ole is afraid to take risk, saying there is lack of leadership in United dressing room. Some even went far to say Ole doesn’t want to offend Pogba and that’s why he didn’t say anything about the penalty.

tenpoless · Aug 21, 2019

The Boy said:
View from outside the Utd bubble!

Lots of people here have said, they don't mind the results as long as there is a clear strategy and the players give their best, well you have a clear strategy and I haven't seen Utd work that hard for a long long time

2 games 2 goals for Martial and Rashford

Apart from the start of the 2nd half you were clearly the dominant team and deserved to win by a couple more goals

Your new signings are fitting in brilliantly

Pogba missed a penalty ... it happens, his conversion rate is still better than Rooney's!

Molineaux is one of the tougher grounds to go in the league, plenty of others will drop points here as well, you were very unlucky

Players you often complain about are playing their hearts out, Martial is the best example, he was great under LvG playing through the middle, faded under Mou out on the wing, playing brilliantly again under Ole back through the middle

Your team is looking better than it has done for years, carry on like this and you'll be fine, you've got everything you wanted so far

So an other team's fan sees this but not Gary Neville, the so called pinnacle of all things United. Well done

. We drew the game and that's why people refused to see the positive sides.

In fact, we've had more worrying wins under Mourinho and Van Gaal where the attack looked disjointed. Team looks good so far I agree.

1988 · Aug 21, 2019

Encouraging play. Still need to work on executing games while we're at it. Should've buried it in the first 45.

Penalty misses happens for everyone. Don't care who takes it and I'm not against Solskjær letting it be between Rashford and Pogba.

Wolves is a tricky team to go up against, especially on their ground. We won't be the last team to go home from Molineux without all three points in the bag.

If we manage a win against Palace and a draw or win on St Mary's I'd say it has been a very successful start of the season.

Twisted Nerve · Aug 21, 2019

VeevaVee said:
As expected after not improving enough of the team. I said this would happen, and I'm sure this story will be repeated a lot this season.

Agree 100%, unfortunately.

Sereques · Aug 21, 2019

VeevaVee said:
As expected after not improving enough of the team. I said this would happen, and I'm sure this story will be repeated a lot this season.

Ole is well aware of the needs of the team, until he finds the right players, he’s not going to buy. SAF was also like this. An example was the case of the central midfield under Sir Alex, he refuse to buy until he saw Michael Carrick and we went on a winning run. Several people huff and puff the players they thought we should go for. Cambiasso, Riquelme, Gattuso etc. SAF ignored all those distractions. Almost everyone played in the midfield back then. Rio, Rooney, O’Shea, Giggs. Just like now, everyone cried and fantasize about a particular midfielder and how much they will improve. [insert in form midfielder name] followed by

was a common post back then.

Ole is not stupid.

Jonno · Aug 21, 2019

Leroy The Red said:
Mctominay and Pogba gave the ball away an obscene amount of times.
We had two shots on target in the ninety minutes, if that’s ‘absolutely bossing a team’ then feck me standards are at an all time low.

Just because the team is in transition doesn’t mean we need to sit here and do mental gymnastics. Norwich went to Anfield and create a dozen or so clearer chances than we did last night. I’m not sure why you’re waxing lyrical about Manchester United going to Wolves and having two shots on goal and keeping possession.

Deary me. We outclassed them in every department and they had nothing apart from 5-10 minutes of momentum.

You sound like Wolves are a newly promoted championship team. They've invested heavily and have one of the best squads in the PL. We've gone there and played quite well. Come to terms with the fact Man United aren't anywhere near the best team in England, and accept that we're re-building quite well.

Jonno · Aug 21, 2019

VeevaVee said:
As expected after not improving enough of the team. I said this would happen, and I'm sure this story will be repeated a lot this season.

City also went there, played quite well and failed to win. Lighten up, it's a decent point and we could have won.

Wolf there last night · Aug 21, 2019

Thought I’d give my view, as from the Billy Wright lower (opposite your lot).

First off, that was a far better United than we enjoyed playing last season. I was far less confident in the build up to the game than either of the previous home games, in which I was fairly certain we’d win in the cup, and expecting a draw in the league.

Utterly dominated first half. Think that was a combination of a few things:
Doherty at RWB was completely off it. (Later found he was apparently ill with the runs).
Wing backs are pivotal to us, so remove a vital piece of the shape and out ball, it falls apart quickly.

Coady and Neves’ long passing was terrible. Which was probably affected by the above, but also:
Your high press was very effective.
Every time the ball went towards the back 3, Martial, Lingard and Rashford went sprinting towards them. They didn’t like it.
Boly is the only defender truly comfortable on the ball under pressure, and it showed.

Far more aimless hoofs up field than we are used to, which your monster midfield and backline loved.
Jimenez and Jota couldn’t get any joy, probably all of the above and a good few wayward first touches, Jota in particular.

You were very tidy in possession, we were mostly chasing shadows, but not overly threatening, barring the goal obviously.

Second half, on comes Adama, general shape vaguely restored, cue widespread panic, particularly Shaw.
He’s slowly becoming a better player, so don’t be quite so surprised a ‘love island contestant’ (made me chuckle) was causing problems.
Being as he was right in front of me, pretty amusing to see a professional football player in his mid-20s having 1-2 ‘wall pass’ drills before coming on, and Coady and Nuno positioning him every time the ball was elsewhere.
Obviously not the brightest spark, but making enough good decisions now to be a threat.

Wonder strike even though was having a poor game, hate VAR, yeah you missed a pen but don’t really think either side had enough good chances to deserve all 3.
That not fair?

(Took so long to get approval my name is now a day late)

Red Keane · Aug 22, 2019

I know I am a little late to the party on this, but the real reason why we drew this match was not because Pogba missed a penalty. Rather the real reason was that even though OGS put the right team out, had the right players on the bench, and put the right subs out (although he put them out far too late for them to be actually effective), we drew mainly because of the lack of quality (and in turn competition for places) we had in both the midfield and the attack, which was the cause of our failure to capitalise on our chances in the first half as well as our failure to assert ourselves in the second half.

Although to be fair, AWB (who otherwise was excellent) should have done better to stop that Neves screamer while Lindelof needs to stop acting less like a lost boy in these sort of moments. But it was our issues further forward that are the bigger concern.

Regardless I am hoping that OGS does not learn the wrong lessons from this and uses it as an excuse to bring back Smalling*/Jones*/Rojo*/Young/Darmian/Matic into the squad. Because there is absolutely no good reason to bring them into any matchday squad this season short of a widescale injury crisis, regardless of this result...

*I was pretty glad to see him putting Tuanzebe on the bench over those 3

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Wolverhampton Wanderers 1:1 Manchester United

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