How far can we go without attacking fullbacks?

Didn't Shaw provide at least one great assist last season? My memory fails me as to what game it was but I think he assisted Rashford.

I think the best attacking fullback and natural footballer is Dalot and I hope he plays all the Cup games this season to prove that this season and I really think we have nothing to worry about in that position at the moment.

AWB contributes offensively, but not in the way we've come to expect from full-backs. He's far more likely to move inside and support centrally than he is to overlap and swing crosses in, which suits him as his delivery from wide isn't fantastic but his passing is solid. Unfortunately we lack a natural wide right-winger to complement that and provide width. Closest thing we have is to play Lingard or James out of position or to put Dalot there.

Nou_Camp99 said:

AWB is incredible defensively. I'd say the best defensive fullback in the league.

However.....and sorry to upset some of the fanboys but he's not good enough with the ball. But we already should have known that. We definitely need to buy Sancho next summer if we get back in the CL.

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Yes he isn't great with the ball. I hope that doesn't become a controversial thing to say on here because it's true. In any case I think he's so sublime defensively he's absolutely worth putting up with. We'll need to augment his weakness with a star right winger or a Left back with more attacking threat

Santoryo said:

Pogba plays on the right midfield in Ole's system.

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Okay that's why he always appears on the left channel?

We are fine at FB, yes that even includes Luke Shaw. I think he needs competition/cover but that’s about it for the defense.

We need midfield and RW sorting out, the world and his wife knows that.

FBs are not the problem. We need competition for Shaw, but FBs is a position that I think we are well covered in. The problem is in the middle and the RW still. Hopefully we get an upgrade in those positions soon.

Once the CBs can be trusted

Ace of Spades said:

FBs are not the problem. We need competition for Shaw, but FBs is a position that I think we are well covered in. The problem is in the middle and the RW still. Hopefully we get an upgrade in those positions soon.

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Agree with this.

I will never understand why this myth our fullbacks are ' not attacking ' comes from. What they are not is the fulcrum of our creativity. Unlike a team like Liverpool or even City,
our fullbacks are there to provide:
1. Width when we attack
2. Support for the wide striker or winger
3. Retain possession
Assisting is a bonus. Not a requirement for how we use them

For we channel our creativity through our midfield and our wide men.

Liverpool in comparison HAVE to channel their creativity through their fullbacks and Firmino because their center midfield is full of hustlers. Hence their fullbacks are constantly creating opportunities with crosses.

City too like to use the fullbacks to a) switch play between flanks and b), to be the men to deliver the final cross into an inside forward, striker, or late arriving midfielder for a tap in at the end of their standard attacking moves. Its a care of utilizing weapons differently.

That is why it's baffling to see United fans moaning about Shaw/young at left back going forward. Yet for last 4 years, our left wing has been consistently our best and most potent attacking weapon, a huge part due to their attacking and support combo play with all our plethora of left favoring attackers.

jeff_goldblum said:

AWB contributes offensively, but not in the way we've come to expect from full-backs. He's far more likely to move inside and support centrally than he is to overlap and swing crosses in, which suits him as his delivery from wide isn't fantastic but his passing is solid. Unfortunately we lack a natural wide right-winger to complement that and provide width. Closest thing we have is to play Lingard or James out of position or to put Dalot there.

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Try Dalot there.

If Shaw isn't supposed to be an attacking full back then feck knows what he's doing in the team. In practice though he's average (at best) going forward, and I'm sick of the sight of him being 20 yards out of position just casually jogging back while one of our centre halves or midfielders covers for him. If anyone else in the team consistently spent that little energy tracking back they'd be slaughtered for it.

bond19821982 said:

How exactly is Walker or Zinchenko an upgrade to Shaw or AWB ? Walker just had 1 assist last year.

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His constant forward runs occupy one player which frees up space for Bernardo Silva, KDB or whoever plays close to him. Shaw often makes no runs and he simply passes it back. His attacking movement rarely creates movement and space, we know he can do as the latest example vs Wolves show.

simplyared said:

I think this is a major issue for us.

We just don’t have that weapon going forward. Both City and Liverpool have it from both flanks.

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Shaw was heavily involved in the goal at Wolves, we beat Chelsea 4-0 opening day when they were both superb and AWB has been at the club for 5 mins!

Bondi77 said:

I think the best attacking fullback and natural footballer is Dalot and I hope he plays all the Cup games this season to prove that this season and I really think we have nothing to worry about in that position at the moment.

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We're trying to convert him to a winger

Our full back are more than capable as attackers.. not an issue at all imo. I prefer a full back who can defend well first and attack second.. maybe we should get Ashley Young back in and recall Valencia.

If we were at the top of world football, I'd say AWB is not in his prime and Shaw is limited.

But.

As we are probably setting our sights on 3rd or 4th spot for the next 2 or so years while we build, I'd say we have an excellent set of fullbacks that can only get better.

The problem is in the centre of the park and on the RW. We need 2 excellent central midfielders and a world class RW.

McT is a very good young player, and I rate him, I expect him to grow into a Man United player, but he can't be playing 40+ games just yet. We need similar players to Kante/Fernandinho in our side to sit with Pogba. Then we need a worldy right winger, someone who is going to score and assist most weeks.

Saying we need better fullbacks is strange. It's like saying we need a slightly better goalkeeper.

AWB is young and can improve going forward. Defensively he is miles ahead of Shaw.

Shaw needs replaced.

The Cat said:

AWB is a fantastic signing his attacking will get better over time. Our fullbacks are the last thing to worry about.

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Maybe, but it's far easier to teach an attacking fullback to defend than vice-versa.

I think Shaw last season was being asked to be more defensive. He positions more centrally forming an almost back 3. This allows Pogba and Martial to cover left wing attacking, covers our weak Central midfield especially if Pogba goes roaming and covers the fact Martial doesn't track back. RW is allowed to push forward more because of this as well as the now 3 can cover. Plus if lindgard is on the right then he helps more defensivly. Also we are short on natural left sided CB's meaning they don't cover as well when he goes forward. This year Maguire should help massively by covering that left hand side do Shaw can push up more. Let's see

Bwuk said:

AWB is young and can improve going forward. Defensively he is miles ahead of Shaw.

Shaw needs replaced.

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Still a good player, but yes, I think he is now the weakest part of the back 5. I'd prefer to concentrate on midfield however - given that we don't seem to make more than 3-4 transfers in a given window as far as I recollect. This gives us 2 midfielders, a right winger and a striker if Martial and Rashford can't deliver this season. Laird (a fullback) is highly rated by some people here, so he might be pushing on the fringes of the first team next year.

kouroux said:

His constant forward runs occupy one player which frees up space for Bernardo Silva, KDB or whoever plays close to him. Shaw often makes no runs and he simply passes it back. His attacking movement rarely creates movement and space, we know he can do as the latest example vs Wolves show.

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Exactly, it's down to coaching and not players

UpWithRivers said:

I think Shaw last season was being asked to be more defensive. He positions more centrally forming an almost back 3. This allows Pogba and Martial to cover left wing attacking, covers our weak Central midfield especially if Pogba goes roaming and covers the fact Martial doesn't track back. RW is allowed to push forward more because of this as well as the now 3 can cover. Plus if lindgard is on the right then he helps more defensivly. Also we are short on natural left sided CB's meaning they don't cover as well when he goes forward. This year Maguire should help massively by covering that left hand side do Shaw can push up more. Let's see

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Agree that it's mainly tactical. However, I do feel Shaw is at times reluctant to surge forward into the box or to the byline. Remember, his injury resulted from making a great run into the box against PSV, only to be chopped down by a horrendous 'tackle.' I wonder if that moment still causes him hesitation when going forward.

That said, I still think Shaw is excellent, and far from a problem. This season, I'd like to see more confidence from him though, because he has great ability.

bond19821982 said:

Exactly, it's down to coaching and not players

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Hopefully we implement something similar too more often

I like Shaw, but i just wish he was a little more confident on the ball. He's very tentative with his passes. You can see Rashford or Martial make runs, but he hasn't got the confidence to make that pass. Seems like a confidence issue to me, like he's too afraid just in case he doesn't find the pass and loses it. In certain circumstances you obviously don't want to be careless on the ball, but there's a balance. There are runners in front of him at times, but he's very hesitant to find them.

SirAF said:

Long term I think they have to buy an upgrade on Shaw for the LB, one that is competent at both ends. AWB is fantastic.

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Thing is Shaw is actually an attacking fullback. And before his injury was showing the potential to be one of the best fullbacks in Europe. Look at how he got injured.

Under LVG he was playing similar to how fullbacks play at City. Then he got injured and our football under LVG became slow and boring, probably because we had one fullback who could play that system whereas City have spent £400m on 4.

Since returning from injury he’s never been the same. Hope was/is that he’ll regain it. But enough time has passed we just have to accept he won’t become the way he would have been without the injury.

Quadruple

You'd ideally want one of them to be decent going forward. Neither are. Wan-Bissaka looks a lot better than Shaw, defensively, so Shaw should be the one we replace - get an attacking LB in.

To think Shaw was our most recent Player of the Season!

AWB is fantastic and nowhere near as bad as people think attacking wise. He's a good dribbler and very smart passer (played a great ball to Lingard which Jesse should've reacted better to), although I do think his crossing is his weakest point as a fullback right now. His attacking weakness is not only completely overplayed because of how good he is defensively, it is exacerbated because we have almost no natural wide right sided players at the club (except for Dan James now I guess). This allows him for no option to combine with or take attention away from him, having to usually take on two players on himself to create something down that side. TAA is obviously a better attacker (best attacking RB in the world probably), but having a winger like Salah ahead of him helps him massively in that regard.

I have my issues with Shaw, his crossing isn't nearly as good as it should be with how many overlaps he does, his fitness is horrific at times (see his slow jogs back after getting abused by Traore on the weekend), and he doesn't stay tight enough to players he's defending one on one. However, I think he's a decent player and that we have far more pertinent places in the squad to upgrade at the moment (like a quality CM/DM, an attacking mid an actual right winger for gods sake)

to about the half way line then we pass it back

If AWB is so good at tackling, but not much of a creative force, why can't he be adapted to a defensive midfielder like Kante? He will be able to break up many more plays than in his little corner in right flank, influencing more of the game, and even covering for the attacking full back we would put in his place when this player X bombs forward. Just an idea..

AWB could have had 2 assists vs wolves if Jesse wasn’t useless.

We wouldn’t be having this discussion. We’d instead be discussing potential replacements for Shaw

simplyared said:

I think this is a major issue for us.

We just don’t have that weapon going forward. Both City and Liverpool have it from both flanks.

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AWB And Shaw look very promising this season..,Fingers crossed,Hopefully they”ll stay fit and keep improving over the course of the season...

Our fans are comparing the full backs only to Liverpool that's why.

Even then, AWB is better than TAA defensively.

We are never happy as a fan group.

Not very far.

Even though we've bought two of the most expensive fullbacks in the world, when they were purchased.

Very little has been made on this issue. ALL great teams have at least one great attacking fullback. It's just a necessity.

It seems like it's back to square one, again. So how does United fix this? Replace/sell Shaw? As I don't see AWB will improve into this great attacking fullback force.

Looking at Bayern today, it reminded me of this thread.

See how smart Kimmich and Davies are used depending on where the wingers and midfielders are positioned.
If the wingers are wide and one of the midfielders make an attacking run, they go central and either act as a playmaker (Kimmich) or as a close passing option (Davis). By doing this they ensure that Bayern are able to continue to have the ball in the final third rather than pass it back to the central defenders and thus allowing the opposition to reorganize themselves. And if the wingers go central, they huge the touchline to make it more difficult for Barca to stay compact.

While this is not new and has been used by Guardiola for many years, this flexibility in movement and positioning among the players is a nightmare to defend against and press. And while having the passing and vision like Kimmich is a rarity to find among even the best midfielders, one does not have to be brilliant on the ball to be able to function as a passing option centrally, but one should be better than AWB, Shaw or Williams.

Another important factor that makes them able to do this (besides their ability in keeping the ball) is that they have two fast central defenders that are capable in 1v1 situations, a thing we sorely lack.

We have seen over the last 8-10 games that the opposition wants our fullbacks to have the ball and are actively protecting the middle of the pitch to stop PP and Bruno. Us going into next season with no fullbacks more able on the ball or a team incapable of utilizing our fullbacks better in the buildup, in the final third or in any situation where we are in possession would be negligence of a similar order to us not buying a midfielder last summer. Us having two fullbacks (or at least one) that are better on the ball, in the buildup and in the final third would help us more as a team than buying Sancho.

You simply can’t challenge these days without attacking fullbacks.