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Paul Pogba racially abused on social media
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
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I didn't say anything about telling them. The law needs to force then to do their jobs.
i.e serious sanctions need to be applied when they don’t. They cannot continue to be allowed to shirk their responsibilities.
You’re addressing none of the points. There’s no technological means available to resolve all the issues that plague social media while allowing for anonymous accounts.
You’re suggesting to legislate for having a cake and eating it. You can legislate against gravity too if you want and it won’t matter one jot.
This I think is the crux of the problem and sometime in the future I believe it is almost inevitable that anonymous accounts will have to be outlawed. The web it seems to me is akin to the atom having been split. Able to do magical things for good but with a reverse extremely dangerous and vicious side. Whilst folks are able to hide behind anonymity the nasty contemptible minority will continue to post their vile diatribes on every issue with impunity.
I actually quickly responded to a point regarding yeah saying I suggested that we should rely on telling companies.
Saying there is no technology means as a fact isn’t something I agree with because in my original post I specifically mentioned racist comments for one which you can easily filter and auto ban accounts so the posts never see the light of day. Bots can also be accounted for via technology (I know because I have worked in the field for over 15 years) the issue is the companies have no incentive to tackle the issue as bots make their sites seem more active and increases human interaction. With regards to video recognition you are correct, however there are plenty of things where they can do something and they don’t because they don’t have to.
I know someone who reported a racist tweet and they were told by twitter to block the user.
Now with regards to activism and blackouts etc. Many people leave the country in order to do what they need to do under anonymous accounts. Some people work on illegal networks which are setup for said purposes also. The point I am making is that anonymity is at times an important thing and should not be dismissed. You seem to think I am suggesting it doesn't have issue or that my suggestion would fix all the issues.
I do not disagree with you that it is an imperfect situation. However to simply dismiss the fact that there is a legislation gap where companies have a conflict of interest to tackle certain activities on their platforms I cannot agree with.
Those companies need to he held accountable and they have plenty of technology means to do a better job than they are doing now. What the do not have are any economic incentives to do so
Neville was definitely OTT with his criticism of Pogba following the penalty miss but I do not think we can honestly blame him for the racist abuse that has followed
Unfortunately much of the world doesn't think like that, look how Muslims all get painted with the same brush; because of a couple bloody lunatics thinking they're doing god's work.
The resurgence of racism in Britain over the past few years is really shocking and depressing. Racism is a symptom of a diseased mind. I will never understand why a person hates another because they have a different skin colour. Pogba is not the first and won't be the last player to miss a crucial.penalty. Some of the world's best in the game have missed penalties and were not abused for it. Besides, it actually was a good penalty, he was unlucky the keeper pulled off a brilliant save.
Tbh. I’m pretty sure that 2 years ago those of us that noticed that there was a personal agenda against Sterling would have been laughed at when we said it.
So sad are those people who commit themselves to doing things like this. Makes me furious.
In isolation I agree, the issue for me is the agenda against Pogba is long standing, Neville last season was at the forefront of that. He again has used the penalty miss as a chance to attack Pogba and blowing up a situation that wasn't really an issue (there was no argument or bust up between Pogba and Rashford) to make out like there was some problem. It was the first thing he went into straight after the game. Notice he did not attach any blame to Ole, he even went as far to say that James was acting like a leader. When you perpetuate such agendas against players, it happened with Sterling before, it creates a negative wave around them in the media which incites hate, thats the issue here for me. The racists then jump on that to do their thing, and it is well known within media that this is happening and they know what part they play in it too because they have been told plenty of times.
I don't blame Neville for the racist abuse, but I think he knew or should have known by now what his comments would do in terms of inciting the mob against Pogba.
To be perfectly honest I believe Neville plays a character at the moment and a lot of what he says is for show. He likes to incite controversy and he does it willingly and knowingly and is fully aware of the consequences it brings.
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It’s pretty much a witch-hunt, how can you criticise Pogba for wanting to be Hollywood and fail to mention Rashford shooting from 60 yard free kicks? I don’t care what anyone says, I hope Pogba leaves, the English press have targeted him since he returned and it’s uncomfortable to watch.
Saw this last night. The funny thing and point that proves there is a double standard. Pogba’s “Hollywood” passes often have an effect, in that clip the guy is using the example of last weeks assist that lead to Rashford goal to attack Pogba.
Remember; Rooney 2012 to 2018, all pundits drooled about was his INEFFECTIVE Hollywood pass, the one he kept doing because he had no other ideas, the one that never led to any assist because it was so slow when played to the wing that it actually gave the the opposition time to reposition.
But pundits marvelled at it, no one actually said “he does it all the time and it leads to nothing”
And that addresses the problem does it? All the other black and BME sportspeople/media figures/politicians should all leave then?
Nope, I’m talking strictly about Pogba, I don’t recall saying that would solve the issue as a whole? I’m talking from his personal perspective, he shouldn’t tolerate it imo.
I completely agree with you that and I personally feel that it is time that regulations of social media platforms are taken away from the companies that run them. I understand that there is a fine line that defines freedom of speech but now we see the harm they can and will potentionally do in the future, and I'm not just talking about personal abuse but larger, sinister political ramifications. It has to be controlled better.
Ok I've asked mancan92 multiple times with no direct answer, so I'll ask you: please show me actual proof of potentially hateful rhetoric from Neville towards Pogba. Here is what I've come across: telling Pogba to 'do one too' after that dodgy post after Mourinho's firing, and then dismissing the Adidas excuse as garbage. Maybe a bit harsh, but hateful is a stretch, especially given how dodgy that post looked and how convenient the excuse was (for me, people are 100% for the contents of their own social media; I feel the same about Lingard's posts and some of the idiotic things Rooney posted in his early social media days.)
Then the other day, he brought up the word 'selfish' but even in that case, he mitigated it by saying his first instinctive response was to say that (and I'm sure millions of United fans felt the same at the moment,) and then to realize that it was more of a structural issue regarding penalty-taking duties. He said that he had labelled Mirallas' taking of a penalty 'despicable' and 'treacherous' but again pointed out that in United's case it seemed to be a more structural issue (ex. Rashford had possibly done the same to Pogba against Chelsea.) Is Neville being a bit melodramatic regarding a penalty miss in the early season? I think he is, but I don't think his latest rant can be labelled aggressive and potentially hateful rhetoric.
In my opinion, the political environment in which we live these days - Trump in USA; Ford and Scheer in Canada; Salvini in Italy; Johnson and Farage in the UK has undoubtedly played a role in emboldening people to vent despicable views, especially when combined with the easy anonymity of social media. But I really can't say that I see Gary Neville contributing to this.
I think the problem with Neville is that he just can't hide his feelings as a passionate United fan (despite some on here getting mad at him for apparently trying too hard to appear impartial toward United.) I think Rob Smyth has been guilty of the same in his role at the Guardian ('Shredding his legacy...") United has been a dumpster fire these past few years, and Pogba as an underperforming record transfer, Sanchez as a flop and Woodward as the executive mastermind have come to represent this mess - and Neville has had a go at all three.
As explained previously just auto-banning accounts on certain use of words is not gonna work because intent is not clearly discernible from simple text parsing by base level AI. People have been wrongly banned for discussing topics and using certain words and phrases as example. Like historians auto-banned for discussing the Nazi Germany. Maybe when AI gets better...
And I also work in technology (software dev) and I can tell you that the battle against bots and viruses is constant as they get smarter and smarter along with the defences. Bot writing is more profitable than writing bot detection atm. Legislating for tech companies to have some level of bot detection and prevention is one thing, but a bit like legislating for pharmaceuticals to control viruses... it's just not really solving the issue. There will be easily detectable bot accounts and some undetectable. And when a dev finds a way to write a bot that bypasses the safety checks, he can create and sell millions of bot accounts thus having a big impact in political or social discourse.
And on your final (omitted from my quote) point about anonymity and its importance. Again, there's plenty of anonymity available in many different mediums and forms of internet communications. You can send something anonymously to someone eponymous to post on Twitter. No one is saying to abolish internet anonymity altogether. But currently there's more damage than harm being done by its existence in mainstream social media. Twitter is quoted in the Main Stream News all the time and its infected with millions of fake, anonymous and bot accounts. Any benefit that there might be from this is, in my eyes, ludicrously dwarfed by the disadvantages of it.
That is called victim blaming.
We're derailing the thread now.
It is better to filter and then reinstate on review, than to publish and then you cannot control the problem. However no technology company will do with without being forced to.
I agree on the battle against bots, my point really is that the firms do the minimum they have to to tackle the issue and will do so until they are forced to do so. They usually tackle the issue only how it affects their bottom line.
Your last point, maybe mainstream media should stop quoting unverified sources.... I mean why are they quoting sources which they cannot verify? That isn't a tech problem but a problem with the media wanting to sensationalise news and being irresponsible with it.
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Article is spot on,there isn't a more scrutinized player in the league and one of the most in world football. When things are going well he doesn't get the plaudits that his contemporaries get for doing similar because it's 'expected (while a De Bruyne can go almost a full year without registering an assist then back to being considered the best in the world after one match) and when things go south it always falls squarely on his head. Been a shame seeing so many fans willingly go all in on rival fan and media narratives against one our own which would adversely effect any player.
How naive,and a bit selfish
100%.
Things only changed for Raheem when he called them out on it on twitter.
I remember looking at threads on here and people buried their heads under the sand.
What?
You what?
Read between the lines mate.
It's oh so simple isn't it? High profile person gets racially abused, someone suggests that they should leave the country...problem solved.
Of course we all know that Pogba leaving for Spain is the answer to the issue. He would get a whole lot more money and live harassment free from racists on social media, and in the crowd. Oh wait!
Meanwhile back in the UK....
I mostly agree with you on this, although I think Pogba hasn't always done himself any favours with his performances. When we were on a roll after Ole's appointment, the team was a joy to watch, and Pogba was the central cog in that. I was at the Fulham game, and he was brilliant.
I gave you examples you ignored them. Clearly you have a different threshold for over the top. Many people believe he has gone over the top. You don't so you have to leave it at that.
It’s just social media for god’s sake...Why not just ignore these trolls?Why should anyone give them more importance than they deserve?By giving them all this attention,people are just inadvertently emboldening many more attention seeking trolls...
At the same time, he can't be held responsible for poor performances either. A whole bunch of players let themselves down by the season's end: DDG,Martial,Smalling,Jones,Matic,Young and others should hold their hands up and take responsibility.
It's easily forgotten that he's one player in a machine that needs all the parts to be working in harmony. As an example, did Messi cop as much abuse after the pathetic capitulation to Liverpool in the ECL?
Great article. I’ve been banging this drum for a while but a lot of Utd fans just don’t see it. He’s an exceptional footballer and we’ll be so much worse without him.
I don't think it's selfish if he wanted to leave the British media and supposed united fans behind though.
And as black man who's lived in multiple countries and experienced multiple cultures, I doubt he'd believe leaving united wouldn't suddenly make racists stop targeting him.
Not naive or selfish. If anything thing it's naive and selfish to think that.
Can I ask, what's your demographic? Your background?
You clearly haven't read the response.
The selfish comment was directed at the poster, not Pogba. His suggestion that he was only interested in Pogba's welfare,and not the wider issue, is selfish.
For the record, Pogba is of course free to leave and if he did I wouldn't not hold it against him.
What the F?
My demographic and background?
It's so sad that you should feel the need to ask a poster that. As if that should preclude them having an opinion.
I believe Pogba should leave because he’s been the target of a witch hunt, including from supporters of his own team, culminating in racial abuse, on what planet is that selfish? Not everyone has to be Malcolm X or ******* Tubman, this isn’t the civil rights movement, what incentive does Pogba have to stick around? From his own personal perspective, it would be beneficial for his career to move on. And I didn’t even mention Spain, you made that up.
Wtf are you on about?
Yeah, that's not selfish. That's literally thinking about someone else.
Are you drunk or just playing dim? Didn't ask you at all.What the F?
My demographic and background?
It's so sad that you should feel the need to ask a poster that. As if that should preclude them having an opinion.
Which is why I first said aggressive and used the term potentially in front of hateful, you can't ignore half of the words, some will think that he is aggressive others that he is hateful it's a matter of perception. And with Neville, it's all about the tone that he uses when he talks about Pogba, the delivery is as important as the substance.