How is making up that he is getting out muscled by Lingard in training a measured post? You completely made shit up and then now act baffled when someone calls you out on it?
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"I completely made shit up?"
How old are you?
I speculated that it may be case. At no point did I state it as a factual occurrence.
You also have an absolute tone in your post stating something to be fact when actually you don't know that is it. Its possible that is why you got an argumentative response.
Anyway this is a forum, people with have opinions and argue their points.
Agree though with your last point, however you know these days that is just the internet..
From that perspective it is seemingly reasonable but risking losing Gomes so as to placate players like Mata, Lingard and Pereira is plainly idiotic to me. Gomes has the potential to be worth £100m plus in a few years time whilst the players blocking him now are not only useless for where we desire to be and doing literally nothing with the game time afforded to them. It would be understandable if they were fit for purpose for a team targetting a top 4 finish in the PL, the shortsightedness is astounding.
I haven't stated anything at all as a fact. The only thing that is a fact is that currently Ole fancies Lingard and Pereira over Gomes.
Everything I've said is speculation as to why that might be. No idea how people can take me saying "who's to say that...." as a factual statement. Beggars belief the bee some people around here have in their bonnet when somebody suggests something that might go against their personal agendas.
For someone to start saying "you're just making shit up" is unbelievable. I can only presume the "kid" in that particular poster's username is very literal.
What a fecking terrible and desperate post.
Never I said I knew it all, you are the one using mental gymnastics to prove how there's some reason that useless Lingard is starting over anyone. Based on that there must have been a reason that Lukaku and Matic started non stop for Mourinho despite being absolutely in shit form/in decline. Or how Rashford deserved to play week in week under Ole in the spring despite him being terrible in many games.
The reality is, without a right reason some managers have favorites who despite not deserving get chance after chance. Lingard is one of those for Ole sadly, and let's hope for his and the club's future he sees reason soon, otherwise we are going nowhere with someone as useless as him, on top we will probably lose a super talented kid like Gomes if not given proper chance. Gomes in those few minutes he got looked better than Lingard and Mata in pre season, he needs a proper chance in competitive games, and he will easily prove that he is a better option.
And then we come to the Mata situation. You use physicality as an excuse, Mata is no superior in that regard, which makes the situation even more bizarre. And not that won't be fixed by months of training, the kid need to play end off, we risk nothing since both senior options are completely useless.
They do often enough. Even at a lower speed they don't magically lose their strength in duels. Add in all the 21-23 years with lower league experience fighting for spots who play even more physical and dirty than is even allowed in the Premier League. u23s football is far dirtier than the PL. Angel will face nothing like the way he was kicked about last season.
You're not even looking at the right teams, you don't get into physical duels with your own teammates. Who is playing for United is irrelevant, in fact it is just a better point for Angel as it shows he didn't have senior players to rely on, he was the star and talisman who was relied on to take it to the opposition and he did it successfully in 99% of matches.
He's played in his time against countless grown men and you can count on one hand the number of times he's been muscled out of a game. In fact, it has practically never happened even once. There is no need to downplay that as 4 competitive games.
In the last year or so, below is a list of some players with their age when played against and their experience at the time.
Moses Makasi - 22 years old with ~10 senior appearances
Martin Samuelson - 20 years old with ~45 senior appearances and a full Norwegian international
Toni Martinez - 20 years old with ~45 senior appearances
Rene-Adelaide - 20 years with 8 appearances for Arsenal's first team and days later went on loan to Ligue 1 making 10 appearances that same season
Mavropanos - 20yrs with 20 senior appearances
Pleguezuelo - 21 with 15 senior apps
Kylian Hazard - 22 with 42 apps
Cauley Woodrow - 23 with 120 appearances
Mattias Kait - 20 with 15 full caps for Estonia
Harry McKirdy - 21 - 30 apps
Jordan Lyden - 22 - 6 apps for Villa but a physical DM that Angel was up against
James Bree - 20 - 80 apps. RB who Angel was up against playing on the left side
Jake Hesketh - 22 - 40 senior appearances in the same season
Yan Valery - 19 - again the RB who Angel came up against playing on the left. 23 PL appearances in the same season.
Charlie Adam - 32 - 385 apps. Angel out muscled him, made a mug of him and had his legs swiped out by Adam on 3 occasions. Is trying to injure a playing taking it 75%?
Moritz Bauer - 26 - 150 apps. Angel drifted left a lot and made a mug of him too
Callum Harriot x2 - 24 - 130 apps
Max Kilman - 21 - 70 apps plus an England futsal national
Dominic Iorfa - 23 - 120 apps. The entire Wolves side on the whole was older and very physical and disciplined. Was a great test that Angel did well in.
Sean Longstaff - 21 - 60 apps and months later playing in the PL and getting linked to us for 50m
Adrian Popa - 30 - 450 apps
Nathan Collins - only 18 but a mountain of a lad who has already captained Stoke's first team and was linked to us
Wes Hoolahan - 36 - over 500 apps
Jefferson Montero - 29 - 400 apps
Sam Field - 21 - 40 apps
Jamie Sterry - 23 - 40 apps
So that is combined experience there of over 3000 senior matches plus there were a bunch of other 20-21 year old with 10-20 senior apps which I couldn't be bothered writing down. Add in all the apps these players made after playing Angel too. Not like Longstaff suddenly become 10x better a month after playing Angel. Add in his first team cameos, the pre-season, BHC matches such as the Sheffield one, the EFL trophy against Rotherham. All in all he has played against countless fully grown adults who aren't youth players.
This is the crux of it for me, I'm not on the hype train as Gomes hasn't done anything at senior level yet, but he's also not been given a chance, where as the other 2 options have been here for countless seasons now and 1 is clearly not good enough and the other is way past his best, we have nothing to lose in giving Gomes a run of games.
Angel playing against senior footballers a few weeks ago. Too big and strong for him to handle supposedly.
That’s the corner most on this thread are fighting on, then we have some like this Bond fella telling us we act like we know it all and we actually know shit, since the manager might think otherwise.
The whole idea of the manager knows best is limp, it's like you can't have an opinion on a movie if you've never made one, managers make errors in judgment time and time again, they put their faith in the wrong players over and over and then they get sacked, loads of them every season. Lingard hasn't scored a single goal in 2019, I'm willing to bet his assists aren't higher than 3 in that same period, I just can't see how Gomes could offer less on the ball, I don't know how his pressing is but again, in that regard he sure can press better than Mata who is Lingard's defacto replacement at the moment.
Not just 2019 mate. I've seen some post that goes back dating to a year back, from August 2018 up till now, he has goals and assist only in December last year in the PL. And you can bet half of those were in that first Ole game against Cardiff. And someone has the cheek to find excuses for that kind of output. I'd bet my nuts if given the same game time, Angel will be much more useful.
He's so much better at football than most players at our club
He will get plenty of games, you lot need to calm down.
His lack of output going even further back doesn't surprise me, it's ludicrous for a #10 at Manchester United, we had players like Cantona and Rooney in that role and now we have this. There really is no excuse for Gomes not to get a start but at the very least he should be on the bench ahead of Mata.
The funny thing is, we were/are laughing at City for loosing Sancho, and Chelsea when Hudson-Odoi was destined to leave, they at least had some proper quality playing, we had absolute mediocrity and it would total lunacy if we lose Gomes while wasting time on Mata and Lingard. Let's hope Ole sees reason very soon.
Hopefully he will, the key point here is that he's not being left out due to the top class players we have, and that's the argument in a nutshell for me, the players keeping him out have no merit to be picked over him.
I like Angel Gomes
I'm guessing since he’s included in the first team section now he’ll get games.
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Just as an example, this isn't fact but your opinion.
Its ok for someone to challenge it too or disagree and put their own opinion forward. Or even to have a different opinion
got to be on the bench this saturday at the very least. Lingard or Mata should be dropped.
can't see him starting, but hoping he can get at least 20 minutes.
can't see him starting, but hoping he can get at least 20 minutes.
What a bizarre response.
Lingard/Mata dropped, or a sub coming on before the 80th minute. I don't which is crazier under Ole.
I reckon he'll be on the bench this weekend
I'd suggest you check their record vs big teams, average vs lower teams no doubt.
That's a whopper of a post.
Could it not be that Chelsea and Wolves are two really tough games and therefore he said he'd favour experience?
Does that not seem as much a possibility as him just not being good enough or needing several more months of strength work?
Anybody who is worried about his strength needs to look at 2:48. Now once incident doesn't tell you everything but clearly he has the technique to cope with the demands of higher level football. At least that's what it looks like based on his games so far this preseason and season.
For those who feel Ole knows best, it turns out managers are humans and make mistakes all the time too. Obviously he knows more and is more likely right than us but it can happen to anyone.
Unfortunately I feel this weekend you will see Mata start and Lingard on bench along with Perreira. And still no place for Gomes. We shall see.
I think you're 100% spot on here. Coady and Boly in particular were able to shut Martial and Rashford down with their physicality throughout the match. It wasn't the right occasion for Gomes. I'd be a bit more surprised if he doesn't make the match day squad this weekend for a home tie against Palace than for Chelsea (against whom United have a fairly dismal recent record) or for a trip to the Molineux (which hasn't been a lot better).
Literally 2:05, not one of our other players gives us this and he does it all the time.
We can live in hope. For me, he is the player more than any other that I would pay to see in our squad. The kid is a prodigy.
I don't know if Gomes is ready or whether he is the right player for now but Wolves being able to shut Martial and Rashford down must also have something to do with the fact that there were our only two threats and feeding on scraps due to lack of creativity behind them. If the midfield is predictable and not able to hold the ball and find the forwards surely the strikers are easy to deal with.
Replacing Matic hopefully.
We have a new team in all fairness, a back four learning how to work together as a unit, as well as dovetailing with the midfield. A new style of playing as well as a new system. So many new things to learn for this team, so I'm not surprised the youngsters have not had much of a look in so far. I'm sure that Ole is looking for the defence/midfield two to get some sort of cohesiveness between them, so we have a stability in the side, and once we look comfortable with those six together, I think players like Gomes and Garner will start to get minutes in the team. It's probably easier for Chong and Greenwood to slot into the forward positions, as unpredictability can be a weapon in those positions. Hopeful that Gomes is on the bench Saturday.
He's going to become a fan favorite. So long as we keep him here, which is my big concern.
Crystal Palace would be the perfect game to start him in league games. At home means less under pressure than playing tough away games like wolves. And this is against a team of non top 6. If Sancho can do the breakthrough last season, don’t know why Gomes doesn’t deserve the chance. Both have been playing in the same level before and they both were equally highly rated.
I admire some of your optimism. I can't see Mata and Lingard getting dropped from the squad, not for a long long time. Gut feeling is he doesn't make a lineup (starting 11 or subs bench) until the first league cup game. Hope i am wrong, like very wrong and hes in the squad tomorrow.
edit: just saw he was not in the squad for the U23 game. There is hope yet for an appearance with 5 minutes left in the game tomorrow
edit: just saw he was not in the squad for the U23 game. There is hope yet for an appearance with 5 minutes left in the game tomorrow
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