I was listening to TalkShite when Dale and one of his own players Steve Dawson were facing off against each other live on air. Dale was making out that he had everything in hand. Another guy had come on earlier saying that he had made a concrete offer to Dale but Dale wanted £5m 'for his trouble'. He's completely ruined Bury FC!
Bury - EFL to discuss re-entry to L2 | and Bolton - sold
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
RedPed
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Think it was in the late 80s when Wolves dropped from 1st to 4th division like Man City did. They were in a sorry state at the time. A lot of people were really upset about it.Interesting. When was this?
Bwuk
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As awful as the Glazers are, we won’t ever have to go through this.
Feel awful for the Bury fans.
Feel awful for the Bury fans.
devilish
Juventus fan who used to support United
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I don't understand why big clubs aren't allowed to enter in some sort of financial agreement with smaller clubs. The former might loan players to the latter and have a say on the management of the club etc in exchange for a fee which should keep them up. Of course, if they ever reach EPL level then this arrangement is annulled, which is fair enough considering that these clubs would have enough money by that time to fend for themselves.
Such deal would mean
a- big clubs would have a way how to involve youths in competitive football
b- small clubs would have the necessary money to survive. They would also see some exciting players playing for their clubs (ex Gomes, Greenwood etc)
c- youth talent will finally get some competitive football instead of rotting into academy games.
Its a win win for everybody.
Such deal would mean
a- big clubs would have a way how to involve youths in competitive football
b- small clubs would have the necessary money to survive. They would also see some exciting players playing for their clubs (ex Gomes, Greenwood etc)
c- youth talent will finally get some competitive football instead of rotting into academy games.
Its a win win for everybody.
el diablorojo
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NO it's time for PL clubs to stop being so greedy and allow more money to flow down the pyramid, to stop being able to steal promising youth players for peanuts, to stop charging loan fees for clubs to essentially develop PL youth prospects. This B team idea goes against the proud tradition in England of having four professional leagues and I would be vehemently against it.Is it not time for PL clubs being allowed to work more closely with lower league clubs and having them as sort of B teams to create playing time for promising youngsters in a proper league instead of this under 23 football? Clubs like Bolton and Bury would benefit from this and that would create more young players ready for the bigger clubs or having a good career in the lower leagues.
I don't think that's fair for the top flight teams. They worked hard to be where they at now.Ridiculous when the P.L receive that kind of money - they really need do distribute the money better
PL is only rich because it's a global brand, you get that kind of money if you reach to that level. Distributing money from the top will make the teams below unfairly rich.
MsNuno
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Went into admin twice at that time scarily close to folding as a club the 80s on the whole were dark daysThink it was in the late 80s when Wolves dropped from 1st to 4th division like Man City did. They were in a sorry state at the time. A lot of people were really upset about it.
adexkola
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Um... They can just play them?I don't understand why big clubs aren't allowed to enter in some sort of financial agreement with smaller clubs. The former might loan players to the latter and have a say on the management of the club etc in exchange for a fee which should keep them up. Of course, if they ever reach EPL level then this arrangement is annulled, which is fair enough considering that these clubs would have enough money by that time to fend for themselves.
Such deal would mean
a- big clubs would have a way how to involve youths in competitive football
b- small clubs would have the necessary money to survive. They would also see some exciting players playing for their clubs (ex Gomes, Greenwood etc)
c- youth talent will finally get some competitive football instead of rotting into academy games.
Its a win win for everybody.
That whole train of thought can feck off.
johanovic
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How would that be done? It´s clear that many of the owners of lower league clubs are hardly trustworthy and how could it be bad for example Bury to have young players from United, coaching and financial input also and keeping the club alive? Bury would continue to be Bury but with a partnership in place to the benefit of both. The countries that give us some of the best youngsters in the game all have some sort of B team structure for example Germany,Spain and Portugal.NO it's time for PL clubs to stop being so greedy and allow more money to flow down the pyramid, to stop being able to steal promising youth players for peanuts, to stop charging loan fees for clubs to essentially develop PL youth prospects. This B team idea goes against the proud tradition in England of having four professional leagues and I would be vehemently against it.
Random Task
WW Lynchpin
Chester City were in a similar situation and ended up getting expelled from the football conference. Sad days.Went into admin twice at that time scarily close to folding as a club the 80s on the whole were dark days
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Seriously - not everyone has worked hard to get there. The gap between the P.L and the rest is so big that if a team gets relegated and don't go up in a year or two, they will struggle financially for a long time.I don't think that's fair for the top flight teams. They worked hard to be where they at now.
PL is only rich because it's a global brand, you get that kind of money if you reach to that level. Distributing money from the top will make the teams below unfairly rich.
The P.L could decide that 1% of their total payments to the Clubs are reserved for smaller Clubs - just 1% would probably save every single club like Bolton and Bury from bankruptcy.
cyberman
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The PL give away 25 percent of their TV rights to smaller clubs already don't they?Seriously - not everyone has worked hard to get there. The gap between the P.L and the rest is so big that if a team gets relegated and don't go up in a year or two, they will struggle financially for a long time.
The P.L could decide that 1% of their total payments to the Clubs are reserved for smaller Clubs - just 1% would probably save every single club like Bolton and Bury from bankruptcy.
Transfer fees and wages would just go up anf it would attract crooks as we are seeing now.
Its really not that simple
RedPed
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Yeah remember them days well. My family live 10 mins from Molineux where I grew up. Nice to see how much it has changed since then.Went into admin twice at that time scarily close to folding as a club the 80s on the whole were dark days
Thunderhead
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prem already give solidarity payments, which are roughlySeriously - not everyone has worked hard to get there. The gap between the P.L and the rest is so big that if a team gets relegated and don't go up in a year or two, they will struggle financially for a long time.
The P.L could decide that 1% of their total payments to the Clubs are reserved for smaller Clubs - just 1% would probably save every single club like Bolton and Bury from bankruptcy.
£4.5m per club in the Championship
700k per club in League 1
500k per club in League 2
Problem is when clubs like Bury start paying players 3k per week and trying to over achieve too quickly.
If I were a 2nd division chairman I'd probably try to reintroduce the North and South split, it must cost a fortune for clubs like Plymouth to travel to Oldham, Hartlepool and places like that, if you had top 3 divisions then split Championship 2 and the Conference into North and South I think this would help alleviate some of the costs.
Lynty
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Money isn't the problem.
The problem is shady or incompetent owners who mismanage clubs and their finances. Filtering more money down from the EPL will not solve this problem.
The only way to stop this is de-privatising football and putting all the power back in the FA's hands. Which is almost impossible to do without breaking the sport.
The problem is shady or incompetent owners who mismanage clubs and their finances. Filtering more money down from the EPL will not solve this problem.
The only way to stop this is de-privatising football and putting all the power back in the FA's hands. Which is almost impossible to do without breaking the sport.
Random Task
WW Lynchpin
Not least because there is nothing preventing the owners from pocketing that extra money rather than invest it in the club.Money isn't the problem.
The problem is shady or incompetent owners who mismanage clubs and their finances. Filtering more money down from the EPL will not solve this problem.
The only way to stop this is de-privatising football and putting all the power back in the FA's hands. Which is almost impossible to do without breaking the sport.
They need to discover a way that ensures players/staff receive 100% of their salary without fail before any extra money is issued to the lower league clubs.
André Dominguez
Full Member
EPL smaller clubs can easilly be in a situation like this if they get relegated and had spent a large chunk of tv revenue to hire overpaid international players and also most of those players won't accept a % reduction of wages if the team gets demoted.
Then they get relegated and have a very expensive squad while having to rely in much smaller incomes.
Then they get relegated and have a very expensive squad while having to rely in much smaller incomes.
Ivor Ballokov
Full Member
Sunderland averaged 32k attendances in League 1, that's better than some top division teams across Europe, you try telling them they have to become Newcastle's feeder club.I don't understand why big clubs aren't allowed to enter in some sort of financial agreement with smaller clubs. The former might loan players to the latter and have a say on the management of the club etc in exchange for a fee which should keep them up. Of course, if they ever reach EPL level then this arrangement is annulled, which is fair enough considering that these clubs would have enough money by that time to fend for themselves.
Such deal would mean
a- big clubs would have a way how to involve youths in competitive football
b- small clubs would have the necessary money to survive. They would also see some exciting players playing for their clubs (ex Gomes, Greenwood etc)
c- youth talent will finally get some competitive football instead of rotting into academy games.
Its a win win for everybody.
DavidDeSchmikes
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devilish
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I am not suggesting that this solution is for everyone. It would be optional of course.Sunderland averaged 32k attendances in League 1, that's better than some top division teams across Europe, you try telling them they have to become Newcastle's feeder club.
Lynty
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Even if someone from the Premier League (club, personality etc.) jumps in now and throws them someone money. It sets a bad precedent.Not least because there is nothing preventing the owners from pocketing that extra money rather than invest it in the club.
They need to discover a way that ensures players/staff receive 100% of their salary without fail before any extra money is issued to the lower league clubs.
What stops shady owners like Steve Dale from purchasing a struggling club with a bit of history (for £1 - which screams dodgy) and holding it to ransom, knowing someone will bail or buy you out.
DavidDeSchmikes
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Money isn't the problem.
The problem is shady or incompetent owners who mismanage clubs and their finances. Filtering more money down from the EPL will not solve this problem.
The only way to stop this is de-privatising football and putting all the power back in the FA's hands. Which is almost impossible to do without breaking the sport.
Let's compare 2 sides:
Huddersfield:
TV Money: £12.3 million which is minimum for all teams shown live 10 matches. The sum increases by £1.1 million for each additional game after number 10 regardless of home or away game.
Prize Money: All teams in the P.L are guaranteed £79 million in addition to a bonus depending on position. Huddersfield ended last received a bonus of just £1.9 million
In total Huddersfield received £93 millioner for doing horribly bad in the Premier League. The better and more popular teams received about £40 million more.
Leeds:
TV Money: A team in the Championship get from £100.000-180.000 for home matches - Close to nothing for away matches. Can't remember the details but midweek matches earn you more, weekend less. Leeds was live 24 times and is believed to have made about £2.5 million in TV-Money for being shown 24 times.
Prize Money: All teams in the Championship have a fixed Prize Money - £2.3 million for 2018, believed to be 10% higher for 2019. In addition they get a solidarity payment to help bridge the gap between the Championship and the P.L) of £4.5 million for 2018- expected to rise to £4.7 million for 2019.
Leeds for being the most popular and almost the best team in Championship received a total of roughly £9.5 million. That is almost exactly 10% of what Huddersfield received for being crap.
Let's for sake of argument say that Huddersfield signed 6 players on a free transfer and paid them as little as £15.000 a week - which by P.L standards is next to nothing. When Huddersfield get relegated and don't go up again after 2 years - these 6 players will cost the club £4.5 million a year in wages. And that is just for these 6 players. As Huddersfield is a lot less popular club than Leeds, they realistically will receive £8 million in TV and Prize Money. You don't have to have a Shady chairman or spending a huge amount of Money to end up in problems if you get relegated from the P.L
And that is why so many clubs get relegated 2-3 times almost in succession when they get relegated. They can have extremely low wages by P.L standards, but extremely high by Championship standards.
Clubs being relegated into the Championship need to offload players extremely quick, but not all players want to go. Look at us With Rojo, Darmian and Sanchez. And by off-loading their best players they also ruin their chances of going back up again. If a club like Huddersfield are stuck With 2-3 poor signings making £20.000 a week - how easy will they be to get rid of ?
So of course the gap is the problem. In order to survive in the P.L you need to spend a bit of Money - but someone will get relegated and then they haven't got the Financials to survive. Huddersfield will not come back to the P.L in the near future, Brighton and Burnley will probably struggle if they get relegated.
AlwaysRed66
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Nonsense. England has the best league system in the world, due to its massive pyramid, full of historical clubs, which many support, even deep down the pyramid. The countries you mention have dreadful league systems, if you take away the top level, full of empty stadiums & atmosphere as B Teams fight it out. Who cares if Man Utd B or Liverpool B wins league one, but independent clubs fans certainly do. The selfishness of some fans is amazing.How would that be done? It´s clear that many of the owners of lower league clubs are hardly trustworthy and how could it be bad for example Bury to have young players from United, coaching and financial input also and keeping the club alive? Bury would continue to be Bury but with a partnership in place to the benefit of both. The countries that give us some of the best youngsters in the game all have some sort of B team structure for example Germany,Spain and Portugal.
Classical Mechanic
Full Member
I’ve heard one of the Bury chair people saying this guy is an asset stripper and blaming the league for their fit and proper person test but don’t they have a responsibility to do their own due diligence too? I mean his directorships would have been visible with an internet search.Tweet
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Reducation
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Re Bury FC, "It's probably the biggest day in their history. Today Bury, the town, might not have a football club. It's absolutely disgraceful." said the multimillionaire former footballer Phil Neville.
shamans
Thinks you can get an STD from flirting.
I don't know much about this situation so don't attack me but I think it's common for people to blame just one person in these sort of things. I would like to know more about the owner. I don't think it's fair to blame all of this on him if the situation is just poor finances.
The Cat
Will drink milk from your hands
Hey he's made his money over his career and it's not up to him to squander it for other people's mistakes.Re Bury FC, "It's probably the biggest day in their history. Today Bury, the town, might not have a football club. It's absolutely disgraceful." said the multimillionaire former footballer Phil Neville.
AlwaysRed66
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Sorry, the owner is a known asset stripper, & been involved in 11 other companies being liquidated, with creditors losing everything. Disgusting individual, who should be in a prison cell, if we had adequate laws.I don't know much about this situation so don't attack me but I think it's common for people to blame just one person in these sort of things. I would like to know more about the owner. I don't think it's fair to blame all of this on him if the situation is just poor finances.
Guy Incognito
Full Member
United and many Premier League clubs are set up not to fail. There is a level of accountability on the financial side, as well as growing demand, which sadly doesn't extend to the Football League. The ownership laws in that division are in desperate need of updating. I mean what use is asking an owner to prove they have funds after purchasing?As awful as the Glazers are, we won’t ever have to go through this.
Feel awful for the Bury fans.
Bury spent money they didn't have and it's come back to bite them on the bum. That isn't the fault of the players or managers but a board and owner who have allowed this predicament to grow. Dale is obviously after some quick money, and some sucker who would take over as owner. And what the next owner will find is a depleted squad, a novice manager, and a fan base in desperate need of hope. Money isn't going to solve their troubles, especially given what they owe.
It's a disgrace and the worst part is lessons will not be learnt from this. There is no accountability of ownership in football. Clubs don't live within their means.
Reducation
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Oh yes it is, but it wouldn't have to be squandered.Hey he's made his money over his career and it's not up to him to squander it for other people's mistakes.
Eboue
nasty little twerp with crazy bitter-man opinions
I have no idea what I'm talking about so dont criticize me but heres my opinion.
DavidDeSchmikes
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Tom Cato
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The English football league need to get on top of this immediately and put in place blacklist for club owners like Steve Dale.
As a business owner myself, this type of predatory operation makes me absolutely livid. I wouldn't care if the company was just a shell of numbers and paperwork, but this is a football club with a 135 year long local history, being run by this absolute clown.
The fact that he took over the club, without a sufficient buffer to keep the club afloat for at least 5 years on his own/the banks creditline with Steve Dale as personal guarantee/his holding company as responsible for the debt, is marvelously staggering. He knew what he was getting into, it's all turned to shit, and Steve Dale is entirely to blame.
As a business owner myself, this type of predatory operation makes me absolutely livid. I wouldn't care if the company was just a shell of numbers and paperwork, but this is a football club with a 135 year long local history, being run by this absolute clown.
The fact that he took over the club, without a sufficient buffer to keep the club afloat for at least 5 years on his own/the banks creditline with Steve Dale as personal guarantee/his holding company as responsible for the debt, is marvelously staggering. He knew what he was getting into, it's all turned to shit, and Steve Dale is entirely to blame.
Berbaclass
Fallen Muppet. Lest we never forget
He’s got a stake in Salford though hasn’t he so he wouldn’t be allowed?Oh yes it is, but it wouldn't have to be squandered.
shamans
Thinks you can get an STD from flirting.
Like I said I don't know much about this case but usually I find owners get a lot of blame.Sorry, the owner is a known asset stripper, & been involved in 11 other companies being liquidated, with creditors losing everything. Disgusting individual, who should be in a prison cell, if we had adequate laws.
shamans
Thinks you can get an STD from flirting.
People should care about shell of companies tooThe English football league need to get on top of this immediately and put in place blacklist for club owners like Steve Dale.
As a business owner myself, this type of predatory operation makes me absolutely livid. I wouldn't care if the company was just a shell of numbers and paperwork, but this is a football club with a 135 year long local history, being run by this absolute clown.
The fact that he took over the club, without a sufficient buffer to keep the club afloat for at least 5 years on his own/the banks creditline with Steve Dale as personal guarantee/his holding company as responsible for the debt, is marvelously staggering. He knew what he was getting into, it's all turned to shit, and Steve Dale is entirely to blame.
shamans
Thinks you can get an STD from flirting.
Am not surprised. Explains your positions on many things...I have no idea what I'm talking about so dont criticize me but heres my opinion.
antohan
gets aroused by tagline boobs
It creates a massive disparity though. Club X have the oil money equivalent of being City B, another United B... to the exclusion of all others. Effectively, you make it far more difficult for any proud and well run club with an identity to preserve having any chance at competing independently.I am not suggesting that this solution is for everyone. It would be optional of course.
One of the things that has always fascinated me about English football is how some teams can motor through to the Premier League, while others can go from playing European football to total obscurity.
It would be a massive overreaction to take that exciting prospect away from fans of smaller local clubs by creating a system anchored on big teams staying big and a few handpicked feeder clubs creating a wall of a second tier between them and the others.
And it would change nothing as far as some clubs being mismanaged and broke is concerned.
antohan
gets aroused by tagline boobs
ThisNonsense. England has the best league system in the world, due to its massive pyramid, full of historical clubs, which many support, even deep down the pyramid. The countries you mention have dreadful league systems, if you take away the top level, full of empty stadiums & atmosphere as B Teams fight it out. Who cares if Man Utd B or Liverpool B wins league one, but independent clubs fans certainly do. The selfishness of some fans is amazing.