Why is it United can't produce strikers?

032Devil

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Can't remember the last time United produced a top striker. Hughes possibly. Nothing of real note. I'm not including Rossi as he was bought in.

We seem to be very good at producing defenders and midfielders but not strikers.


Any reason for this inability?
 

Tribec

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Not to mention top class goalkeepers. The last good keeper we produced was Gary Walsh, and due to injury his career with us was cut short. It's something that has bothered me for a while, but I can't explain it to be honest.
 

a_devil_inside

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Gary Walsh was pants, I thought he was as bad as Pilkington.
We have tried with strikers but they just weren't good enough for some reason.
Webber and Healy are 2 examples
 

RedPhil1957

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a_devil_inside said:
Gary Walsh was pants, I thought he was as bad as Pilkington.
We have tried with strikers but they just weren't good enough for some reason.
Webber and Healy are 2 examples

garry Walsh ( before a bad injury) was a fantastic young keeper
 

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the striker position is just so imperative and its very difficult to just give a young lad a go. SAF clearly prefers to buy proven quality here because it can be the difference between a 10-15 goals man or a 20-25 goals scorer.

One thing is for sure - if a player is good enough, they'll get a chance - e.g rossi (hopefully) and maybe campbell in the future.
 

greater wall

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Bosnich was a United keeper and was half decent, ended up at Villa and Big Ron.
Liverpool have produced more than their fair share recently, I am including ones from Everton as well.
 

sparky

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Campbell does'nt look too bad. He made the jump from the Academy to reserves with ease last season.
 

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We pay anywhere from £12m to £25m+ for a striker, therefore to break the hierachy here as a striker you have to be absolutely exceptional to compete with the purchases we have here.

You can't have a servicable striker, they are too important, they more often then not have the power to decide the majority of games we play during a season. You can't do a Fletcher or O'Shea and play them for over a 100 games of moderate performance, they have to be top notch. Therein lies the difference between blooding players with obvious defeciencies like Fletcher, Richardson and O'Shea have, and doing the same with a striker.

Giuseppe Rossi is a perfect example of how superior a forward has to be to even be considered here. At any club outside the top 5, Rossi would be in serious consideration for the starting xi. Here he might not even make the cut for next season and get loaned out. It's that simple really. Strikers of a level we require rarely come out of any academy in England and in this regard we're no different. If we could breed our own strikers the club would save at least 12million quid a debutant. No top club in Europe has a success rate in blooding their own strikers. It's too risky and important a position to gamble with.

Having said all that, Frazier Campbell is a promising prospect. He has looked brilliant so far. If he continues to develop like he has so far in his short rise to the reserves, he has a decent shot at it.
 

greater wall

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Are you saying that if we had a Rooney, Fowler, Owen type player in our reserves they would not have broken through into the first team?
 

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greater wall said:
Are you saying that if we had a Rooney, Fowler, Owen type player in our reserves they would not have broken through into the first team?
I'm saying we don't have any of those types and that top class strikers breaking through to PL level before the age of 21-22 is extremely rare.

Along with Shearer that lot are the most prodigious youngsters to have come out of any English academy for striking talent before the age of 22.

We have one exceptional talent in Rossi, hence he is being given a shot, at 19 years of age. Which is unbelievable considering the stature of our club. It shows that he could well be in the bracket of brilliant forwards before 22 years of age.
 

Mr. MUJAC

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Interesting analysis.......

It is true that apart from Gary Bailey...no keeper has come through our ranks and made the position his own since Jack Crompton in the 1940's........

We have had plenty of forwards......Dennis Viollet, Billy Whelan, Bobby Charlton, Alex Dawson, Brian Kidd, Norman Whiteside and Mark Hughes but none over the last 15 years or so.....

Also plenty of known forwards have come through our ranks but had to move on....Alan Gowling, Don Givens among others....

I would still include Rossi as we have developed him further over the last couple of years and he played in our Youth team...

However...I don't know the reason why we can't seem to develop forwards like we used to...........
 

Red17

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This isn't a problem specific to United. If you have a look around today, almost all the strikers at the top European clubs are not home grown. The problem tends to be more acute at British clubs due to the tighter immigration laws, thereby restricting the pool of youngsters the clubs can work with.
 

Red17

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TonyPark said:
Interesting analysis.......

It is true that apart from Gary Bailey...no keeper has come through our ranks and made the position his own since Jack Crompton in the 1940's........

..........
I thought Gary Bailey almost practically went straight from South Africa to the first team when Stepney got injured.
 

Mr. MUJAC

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Red17 said:
I thought Gary Bailey almost practically went straight from South Africa to the first team when Stepney got injured.
Gary Bailey arrived in December 1977 and started playing in our junior sides....by the end of the 1977/78-season he had played...

'B' team - 5
'A' team - 11
Reserves - 6

At the start of the 1978/79-season....he played

'B' team - 0
'A' team - 8
Reserves - 7

.....before making his league debut against Ipswich Town on the 18th November 1979....

He had been in our juniors for a year before making his debut!
 

oskarutd

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TonyPark said:
Interesting analysis.......

It is true that apart from Gary Bailey...no keeper has come through our ranks and made the position his own since Jack Crompton in the 1940's........
You don´t feel Walsh made the position his own for a while?
 

Mr. MUJAC

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oskarutd said:
You don´t feel Walsh made the position his own for a while?
I actually rated Walsh very highly Oskar.....but he never made the number one spot his own at any time......his two serious head injuries came at exactly the wrong time for the lad.....

Very good keeper though.........

I think the point is....whether you include Walsh or not...at United we don't give our Youth keepers much of a chance...I actually quite rate Steele and Heaton but Fergie bought Foster and then went after Kuszsazk......

If you look at the stats...many of our young keepers have gone on to good careers elsewhere...Pollitt, Pears, Walsh and so on....

Mark Bosnich was a good keeper and did come through our ranks but politics dictated he leave....
 

Mr. MUJAC

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greater wall said:
Bosnich was a United keeper and was half decent, ended up at Villa and Big Ron.
Liverpool have produced more than their fair share recently, I am including ones from Everton as well.
Which Liverpool and Everton players are you referring to?

On a wider note.....

Of the 5 European Cups Liverpool have won....only seven home grown players have appeared in them.....In Everton's Cup Winners Cup success only two were home grown players....including reserves

United had 9 in 1968......4 in 1991 and 6 in 1999....and that's not including Scholes to the list as he most certainly would have played in the final........
 

032Devil

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Liverpool are the opposite of United ie they're better at producing strikers: Michael Owen, Robbie Fowler, Jimmy Case, David Fairclough, (I think) Ian Rush.

I'm not sure on all of these but they might be others I haven't included either.
 

Mr. MUJAC

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032Devil said:
Liverpool are the opposite of United ie they're better at producing strikers: Michael Owen, Robbie Fowler, Jimmy Case, David Fairclough, (I think) Ian Rush.

I'm not sure on all of these but they might be others I haven't included either.
Have to disagree....

Case was bought from South Liverpool playing non-league football and Rush was bought from Chester after playing the 1978/79 season with them.....I wouldn't exactly call Case a striker.......but Liverpool didn't produce them...

Keegan....Toshack...Dalglish...Cormack...Barnes...Beardsley...et al...all bought!

Apart from the three you mention Fairclough, Fowler and Owen.....Liverpool have a worse track record of producing forwards than us......it's only the last two have come in recent times and been relatively prolific....and therefore they stick in the mind...but don't be fooled....check the records....

Liverpool have a buying policy......always have!