So?
Get rid of VAR NOW! We want our game back! (...or not, some are happy)
- Thread starter RedFish
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Yeah, that’s a perfectly acceptable thing to happen on a football pitch and not at all an absolute farce.
You mean a bigger farce than a game ending with the wrong result?
Yeah, that’s a perfectly acceptable thing to happen on a football pitch and not at all an absolute farce.
It took nine minutes and the ref didn’t even change his original decision. The VAR made absolutely no difference to the game, just made an absolute mockery of it for taking nine minutes.
I swear VAR diehards have absolutely no feel for the game. If anyone finds that kind of delay acceptable we might as well be watching different sports.
Seeing Salah get that penalty off from VAR... I can’t understand how Martial wasn’t given the pen. Like Drogba would have said; Disgrace!
Just because he took a shot, the fecking ref thinks it was advantage or something. Next game, I think he will do a proper dive
Rare farcical situations are the price to pay to avoid much more common farcical mistakes by the refs. It's a trade, one that falls squarely in favour of VAR so far
You think that is the reason he didn’t get it? That surely must encourage players to dive instead. Ridiculous..
I have absolutely no doubt. If he dived, he would have gotten the pen
Especially since it's the same crew reviewing both situations. Then again, it's Pawson, and he's fecking shit on his best days.
No excuse for refereeing in Utd game today, there is VAR too which makes it even worse.
I've just seen Salah one as well. May as well be a different sport being refereed in the Liverpool game...
Makes the premier league a joke for me.
How can it be remotely considered a fair sporting contest with such ludicrously inconsistent refereeing?
It's been like that for years too.
It was shocking. James also received a yellow card for being kicked in the knee. It is fecking crazy to me how shite referees are, with and without technology
The sleeping pillow theory is dangerous though, because in practice the referee's on-field decision prejudices the VAR review.
On Martial pen, referee says no and VAR says it's not clear/obvious enough to overturn original decision. But if referee had said pen, I am certain VAR would equally have found that it wasn't clear/obvious enough to overturn original decision. So the referee could've said yes or no, and in both cases VAR wouldn't have intervened.
It needs 2 tiers of VAR assessment more like rugby. First is when the ref is quite sure asking if he clearly missed something like current. Second is where the ref isn't as sure on a tight call so he asks for VAR to make the call based on the extra views they have.
VAR is shit.
Happy to see VAR doing its job and making a difference re: Salah and penalties. 
VAR and luck failed us today. That incident with Martial... Wtf was that? Clear penalty and red card and nothing, nothing!? Wtf.
But it was clear and obvious, he’d spun him and was 1on1
I agree with you on that. I was making a broader point about the sleeping pillow theory -- refs can't not make a decision on the basis that VAR will bail them out, because it seems pretty clear that VAR is placing a very high threshold on when it will intervene or not.
You guys are looking at it wrong though. VAR did a bad job, sure, but the game was a perfect example of why VAR is *needed*. Performances like the ref from united-palace are unacceptable
It needs to do a better job, of course. Hopefully that will improve
It needs to do a better job, of course. Hopefully that will improve
It looks on the face of it that refs have been told to tone done VAR over riding decisions after the Sterling offside and penalty retake. I mean the refs aren’t going to call out other refs for mistakes are they? If you have two incidents like Salah and Martial today, you have to scrap the whole thing until two things are treated equally
It's quite an interesting conflict of interest that exists when the on-field refs and the VAR refs are effectively all drawn from the same pool. I wonder whether in the future there will be a move towards specialised VAR-only refs to eliminate that conflict.
VAR is fine. The issue is the English FA/referees who seem hellbent on sabotaging it.
Today in the Chelsea game it was an absolute shambles. There was a blatant foul in the build up to Norwich's first goal and the reason given for not overturning it was it was a different phase of play. There was about 10 seconds maximum between the foul and the goal and Chelsea never touched the ball again afterwards. Then there was the blatant stonewall penalty on Azpilicueta not given because it bizarrely didn't "meed the threshold" for VAR to overrule the referee. Godfrey deliberately stamped on Mount while the ball was dead, they looked and gave nothing yet had the exact same thing happened in a 50/50 during play they would've almost certainly deemed it punishable. You could argue the Zouma goal was fair game too but I can at least understand that one given they've always given goalkeepers an ungodly amount of protection.
Not seen the United game yet but seems there was much tomfoolery there too.
The issue isn't VAR. It's the people in charge who are either too scared to get involved and 'show up' one of their own, too incompetent to be able to accurately determine what is and isn't a foul or are too stubborn to properly utilise it because they were always against it in the first place.
Today in the Chelsea game it was an absolute shambles. There was a blatant foul in the build up to Norwich's first goal and the reason given for not overturning it was it was a different phase of play. There was about 10 seconds maximum between the foul and the goal and Chelsea never touched the ball again afterwards. Then there was the blatant stonewall penalty on Azpilicueta not given because it bizarrely didn't "meed the threshold" for VAR to overrule the referee. Godfrey deliberately stamped on Mount while the ball was dead, they looked and gave nothing yet had the exact same thing happened in a 50/50 during play they would've almost certainly deemed it punishable. You could argue the Zouma goal was fair game too but I can at least understand that one given they've always given goalkeepers an ungodly amount of protection.
Not seen the United game yet but seems there was much tomfoolery there too.
The issue isn't VAR. It's the people in charge who are either too scared to get involved and 'show up' one of their own, too incompetent to be able to accurately determine what is and isn't a foul or are too stubborn to properly utilise it because they were always against it in the first place.
Can someone please explain to me why was there a VAR review and an announcement after Rashford's penalty claim but no review after Martial's penalty claim which was a 100% penalty? If 70+ thousand people in the stadium, millions at home and even the commentators unanimously agreed it was a penalty, surely VAR should've called it or at least provided a formal review like with Rashford's incident afterwards?
VAR is ruining consistency.
Should have like Cricket & other sports, where the Captain/Manager has a couple of calls in a match if he thinks decision is wrong & wants review. At least that way any call would have to be fairly certain, otherwise a more important decision may follow.
Surprised by VAR today. Couple of times they made a mess of it in our game. Not sure how consistent anything with the dopey people we have working as refs is ever going to be. You could show them the same footage twice and get three different decisions from the same ref.
Games like yesterday's makes you wonder what the point even is. I'm all for VAR as a way to avoid egregious errors, but when it even manages to fail at that, then there's literally no reason for it to exist. Missed a blatant red and a stonewall penalty, and the penalty situation should have seen Kelly awarded a red as well.
I thought about that - but that was an innocent trip. And it would not have been given as a yellow card anywhere else on the pitch...but now that I have seen it in replay as someone pointed out, Zaha should have had 3 yellows (one for the trip, one for the clapping and then for barging through Pogba)
I'm sure that the commentators said it had been reviewed and they sided with the ref
that Martial incident was a clear pen and red
absolute joke of a decision
absolute joke of a decision
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I think it has to do with the way that the PL's "high threshold" is applied.
The referee first tells VAR what he saw. If that vaguely matches what VAR see then they don't intervene. Which in effect means that VAR will only really intervene if the referee has missed something (i.e doesn't spot the incident at all, thinks there isn't contact when there is, etc.) rather than has seen the incident but interpreted it in the "wrong" way (i.e. "I saw X but didn't think it was enough for a penalty").
I'm very much in favour of VAR generally but the PL's system is fundamentally flawed due to their high threshold. It means the referee's original view of an incident still carries too much weight and dictates what VAR can and can't do, which will inevitably lead to inconsistent decisions.
The Utd game certainly seems like an example of how not to use it & also how not to not use it. Just got two layers of incompetence now, .
And the 2nd layer is making the first guy worse than he was before.
The system & the people using the system seem like a linked entwined issue to me. They aren't different things.
.And the 2nd layer is making the first guy worse than he was before.
The system & the people using the system seem like a linked entwined issue to me. They aren't different things.
It's weird that in England main ref has no say when decision goes to VAR.
England, bloody hell.
England, bloody hell.
Seems like this to me too.
The ref wants the VAR to do it though, is what I would reckon. So it it is the VAR man backing his mate.
The umpire is made to look wrong all the time in the cricket - probably why they have limited challenges, though.
The way English football 'wants' to do it, I kind of approve of, but they definitely aren't doing it well or even trying very hard, are they?
I like ref running away to the screen outside the field, watching closely, and making a tv sign with his hands and pointing to a spot...
In England they just point to their ears and telling players "dunno mate, I'm waiting too".
Death to VAR!
In England they just point to their ears and telling players "dunno mate, I'm waiting too".
Death to VAR!
Good point. Has anyone been reffered to the pitch side monitor yet
Are there even monitors on pitches? Can't remember now seeing one...
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/9625785/var-premier-league-rules-2019-20-video-referee/
Some more stuff from the article:
When can VAR be used in Premier League games?
VAR will be used in all 360 Premier League matches this season.
It will only be used for incidents involving:
- each goal scored
- each penalty awarded
- each straight red card shown
- cases of mistaken identity
- yellow cards, including second yellows
- potential fouls in ordinary open play
- to decide on corner or throw-in awards.
When is the Clear and Obvious Error rule applied?
Subjective decisions are the only ones where the clear and obvious rule is applied, and the PGMOL have instructed officials there should be a high bar in place before overturning decisions.
Incidents that are subjective include potential fouls given or not, simulation and handballs.
Factual decisions will not be subject to the clear and obvious test - they are treated as yes/no decisions.
These factual decisions revolve around:
- was a player offside?
- was a foul in or out of the penalty area?
- was the ball in or out of play leading up to a goal?