Why are we dropping the standards for Ole?

Sky1981

Fending off the urge
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
30,002
Location
Under the bright neon lights of sincity
Nothing under Jose was being built for the future and never will be with Jose it was all about him and the now. Finally we have some forward planning and a strategy under Ole.
Just because you win it now doesnt mean you'll win nothing 3 years after. Just because you dont win it now doesnt mean you'll win it 3 years later.

Our obsession with long term planning is hampering us. Even sad continually refresh his team with purchases. It's good if we happens to find a gem among the youth but investing in them blindly isnt a guarantee
 

lysglimt

Full Member
Scout
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
15,105
OGS is not up for the job for not creating a lot of chances against Leicester. Unai Emery is a brilliant manager despite letting Watford create 30+ goal attempts :)
 

VP89

Pogba's biggest fan
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
31,122
OGS is not up for the job for not creating a lot of chances against Leicester. Unai Emery is a brilliant manager despite letting Watford create 30+ goal attempts :)
It's true. Leicester created feck all against us and they are better attacking side than Watford are.
 

AshRK

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
12,095
Location
Canada
OGS is not up for the job for not creating a lot of chances against Leicester. Unai Emery is a brilliant manager despite letting Watford create 30+ goal attempts :)
I never understood the love for emery that some united fans have. He has done nothing to impress so far.
 

Shiva87

Full Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,852
Location
Mumbai, India
OGS is not up for the job for not creating a lot of chances against Leicester. Unai Emery is a brilliant manager despite letting Watford create 30+ goal attempts :)
The damning thing is Watford creating 30+ chances!

Arsenal have become a permanent up and down club. So far away from their performance against Spurs.

Aubamayeng + Lacazette really papering over their cracks.
 

lysglimt

Full Member
Scout
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
15,105
The damning thing is Watford creating 30+ chances!

Arsenal have become a permanent up and down club. So far away from their performance against Spurs.

Aubamayeng + Lacazette really papering over their cracks.
Watford were brilliant in the 2nd half - and could have scored 5. What Emery was doing God knows - he basically finished the game without a midfield. Imagine if OGS had done something like that
 

NWRed

Full Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2019
Messages
1,154
Just because you win it now doesnt mean you'll win nothing 3 years after. Just because you dont win it now doesnt mean you'll win it 3 years later.

Our obsession with long term planning is hampering us. Even sad continually refresh his team with purchases. It's good if we happens to find a gem among the youth but investing in them blindly isnt a guarantee
What a ridiculous belief.

The problem over the last 6 years has been the lack of long term planning, Ole is rightly changing that.
 

ZupZup

Full Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Messages
2,399
Location
W3104
Oh great stats thats just as good as watching the game I suppose which you clearly didn't do because stats never tell the whole story of a game. Maybe instead of copy and pasting stats you could go watch the highlights of the match alright.
The fact that you accuse someone else of not watching the match... a match you believe was at Old Trafford when it was away from home... very funny!

Must be a WUM account.
 

Shiva87

Full Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,852
Location
Mumbai, India
Watford were brilliant in the 2nd half - and could have scored 5. What Emery was doing God knows - he basically finished the game without a midfield. Imagine if OGS had done something like that
He was very open about his thinking in the post match press conference. It's best not to compare, but I really think OGS and Phelan are very astute. Don't know if he can make us win the league with Pep and Klopp around - but, I really want to see him get support from fans and the board alike.

Still early days. I just wish we had scored some of those penalties. The whole narrative would be totally different.
 

ArjenIsM3

Full Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2015
Messages
5,633
Location
Netherlands
Might refresh your memory mate you were probably watching the replay of the League Cup Final a few years ago dont worry about it you probably had too many pints.
A highlights video by Southampton themselves :lol:

Either you're the mods new wum account or you're an idiot :yawn:
 

Dec9003

Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
8,922
Once again, those teams have far inferior players to us, so you are missing the point. I would hope we would have a better defensive record than a team who lost one of their most experienced defenders, whilst having a transfer ban and two teams who should be relegation tier having spent a world record on a CB and having one of, if not the best goalkeeper in World football. Not to add the fee we paid for AWB. The other teams mentioned didn't/don't have that freedom. Not to mention, Lampard starting the season with key players, mainly Kante being out.

Whether or not Lampard's style is as good as Sarri's is also missing the point. That was never the argument. The argument here is that, Lampard didn't need a whole squad of his own players and all that time to start changing the style.

We beat Chelsea 4-0 on the first matchday of the season, because they allowed us to counter attack. That alone is the issue. We look great when teams give us space, but absolutely clueless if a team doesn't give us space to operate and attack. That is where the intricate coaching comes into play. Something that we very evidently do not seem to grasp.

Also this has nothing to do with teams we should emulate. Of course we should emulate Liverpool and City, but they are a million miles away from us, both in regards to their managers and their squads. The point was simply made to prove that you don't need to spend a feck ton of money, get a manager a team of players he wants, whilst granting him a free pass for 50 seasons before you start seeing progress.

We play shit football and look clueless, because simply put; both the players AND Ole aren't good enough. The standard of football in England now is insane, relying on a manager who has failed everytime he has tried stepping up from the Norwegian league, regardless of the players you give him isn't going to be enough. Molde are doing better without him.

I love Ole, but simply put, he is getting a free pass given his history with us. Any other manager in his situation at the moment would be getting hounded out.
Do Cheslea have far inferior players compared to us? Last season they finished in the top four and won the Europa league.
You keep changing the goal posts and contradicting yourself, I'm not sure you actually have a point. You seem to just be interested in having a moan about Ole/United.
have a good evening mate
 

NWRed

Full Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2019
Messages
1,154
Our predicament starts with long term manager vision named moyes, then the structure rebuilding by lvg


More harm then good
The talk with Moyes may have been long term but the signings (Fellaini and Mata) were quick decisions made out of desperation, exactly what Ole has declined to do. Besides Moyes was clearly out of his depth, the game of a million crosses vs Fulham showed he wasn't capable of an original idea.

LVG signings like Falcao, Di Maria and Schweinsteiger were hardly long term planning.
 

John Blund

Full Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2013
Messages
1,214
We're not dropping standards - we're being realistic. Top 4 is realistic. Rebuilding squad is realistic.

People moaning about us selling Lukaku; Lukaku pretty much talked himself out of our team. I was a bit annoyed that Ole accepted Lukakus BS hinting from early last season. Ole didn't force Lukaku out, Lukaku made himself unwanted after leaking results from training amongst other things. If Lingard or Rashford had said ANY in this direction, some of our fans would tell them to bag their bags: https://www.joe.co.uk/sport/romelu-lukaku-italy-204227.
 

steffyr2

Full Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
1,772
For me it means I’d rather have an Ashley Young than a Di Maria in the team. AdM is a far better player but only turned up for his salary whereas Young cares and will always give his all.
I have no idea whether AY cares or not. Actually I don't care if he cares, I'd like him to reliably put in a decent cross.
"Caring" seems to be a synonym with "British". Unfortunately it also seems to be a synonym for "hard-working" and "mediocre".
 

momo83

Massive Snowflake
Joined
Dec 5, 2013
Messages
1,463
Personally I think Ole has the right ideas, but right now we're seeing absolutely nothing, other than some basic talent acquisition.

What I don't understand is why we played so well for the first few games under him. If it was a mixture of decent ideas and morale boost from Jose leaving then why can't they still do that? Lack of belief? Lack of instruction?
I think the good form like you say was a mixture of boost of Jose leaving, players natural raw ability, and Solskjaer great early motivational use of United’s history. At a time when all the hype was about City and Liverpool, Ole reminded the players that they play for one of the biggest clubs in Europe.

But there’s only for so long that players can be motivated by an era that had nothing to do with them. Also “then what” after the motivation and natural talent comes the coaching and daily management.

Also think football got worse after Ole dropped the 433 and went 4231... beyond that might also be the more his influence took hold the more it had a negative effect.
 
  • Like
Reactions: VeevaVee

WR10

Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
5,644
Location
Dream
Our standards are healthy annual reports. Anything else and you're deluded
 

90 + 5min

Full Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2019
Messages
5,032
Well I hope you enjoyed because I didnt and for to say we deserved to win is embarrassing, if we deserved to win we would have won.

Of course last season is important in being able to draw comparisons and as you can see we are averaging 2 wins every 4 games. We have not improved since last season and that is clear to see and if you dont think 4 wins from our last 16 competitive is not something to worry about then your expecting to finish midtable because thats the form of a midtable side.
Preseason? Dont make me laugh.
Teams are not going to win everytime they are better. Sometimes it just doesn’t go its way. Norwich won against City yesterday and by no means they were better. Just lucky. So to deserve to win and actually win is not going hand in hand all the time.

Last season is not important. It’s history. Gone. Ole had his preseason and has improved us from last year even though we lost lots of players and have to play young team. He is on 2-2-1 after 5 games. Like some other managers that antiOle brigade hold much much higher. And that with a squad that is better then ours. On paper.

In all circumstance I think he is doing very good job. Do I always agree with him? No. But he will get my backing and deserve more chance because there is a plan and he is right manager for us at this time.
 

R'hllor

Full Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
15,414
Must say this thread is great if you arent on any far side of this discussion, JM sacking still stings and others turned into those they disliked during JM time.
 

Raees

Pythagoras in Boots
Joined
May 16, 2009
Messages
29,464
Some people seem to struggle with the concept that even if Ole was the wrong appointment that doesn’t mean by default keeping Jose was the right option.
 

Richjc

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 3, 2019
Messages
28
Did you actually watch the Southampton game? Southampton had two chances within ten seconds of each their and that was it. United lost control of that game for about ten minutes and utterly dominated the first half. The team’s underlying numbers are far better than the tail end of last year.

Defensively we’ve conceded the least high quality chances in the entire league and the two defensive signings have been excellent. We aren’t as fluid in the final third, largely because the quality isn’t there, but we’ve been the better side in all five of our games, had the superior xg in them all and if we’d scored a couple of pens would likely now be on 13 points.

Dyu want me to post the full match highlights for you so? Youll finally get to watch the match, They had the better chances- and we couldnt get any rhythm or plan working for the whole 90 mins. It's Southampton, the week before was Crystal Palace. But that's fine because we "should have won" and we were unlucky. Luck should never be a hope or an excuse. We have 4 wins from our last 16 games.. were we unlucky in all of them?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: Niall

Richjc

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 3, 2019
Messages
28
Mourinho had four wins in his last twelve league games after spending £350m on footballers.
 

Tarrou

Full Member
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
25,535
Location
Sydney
Ole took over a 4th to 8th placed team in terms of quality, that was in free-fall. And now we're spending like a 4th to 8th placed team as well.

We're not dropping the standards, those were the standards of the club at present we he joined. It's Ole's job to improve them.
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
12,555
It is both really. The coaching team should of course include the manager.
I completely agree with you about those players you have mentioned and as a result worry about how the new signings will develop. They have all started well but the concern is that they will stagnate like those you mentioned.
In term who, sadly I have no idea.
But I have to say that I have been less than impressed with Carrick, Phelan and McKenna.
The advances in modern coaching seem to have bypassed United and for a club like ours that is unacceptable.
Exactly, Carrick, Phelan and McKenna between them should be able to improve these players. Phelan was a Hull City manager, worked with SAF he should be really getting improvement.
Carrick is very calm and experienced and has worked with Jose

We need modern coaching introduced to tackle Liverpool and City.
 

Nikelesh Reddy

Full Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2017
Messages
1,912
Conveniently ignoring they sold Coutinho for 140m.


Conveniently ignoring two of those players replaced Courtois and Hazard.


The likes of Jerome Boateng, Yerry Mina, and a bunch of 30 years old wingers would have definitely led United to a title challenge. Can't argue with that.
Herrera and Fellaini left the club....Who did we sign to replace them this summer?No,but Harry Maguire would have made a huge difference....Don’t know which world you were living in,but Maguire was Mourinhos number 1 target followed by Toby Alderweireld...
 

AJ10

Full Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2018
Messages
2,498
People still going on about jose, Wonder why no one went for him.
 

mancave bear

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 22, 2017
Messages
196
We are not dropping the standards for Ole. We are dropping the expectations for this season and the next one, beacause we are doing a total rebuild. Haven't you got the memo : )
 
Last edited:

hn4manunited

Full Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2016
Messages
931
Just because you win it now doesnt mean you'll win nothing 3 years after. Just because you dont win it now doesnt mean you'll win it 3 years later.

Our obsession with long term planning is hampering us. Even sad continually refresh his team with purchases. It's good if we happens to find a gem among the youth but investing in them blindly isnt a guarantee
That’s always how I felt about a rebuild. You have to have experience and some players coming on to the end of their careers and seeding the team with some youngish players while buying seasoned and young players. That keeps a club competitive with a chance to winning something while building something continuously for near future years. The fallacy of just being in a rebuild phase for several years hoping for something good to happen is quite obvious in some of our fan base. Unfortunately, that is where we are at the moment and are taking that approach.
 

redIndianDevil

Full Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2017
Messages
3,633
Who posted the stat that we are the best pressing side using some crap statistics? Was it this forum or somewhere else? Where was this mythical pressing when Mark Noble kept the ball like he is some sort of Iniesta...
 

Dan_F

Full Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2012
Messages
10,317
Are we all happy to admit that the excuses of the players not being fit enough to do a high press last season is complete shit. There’s no intention of putting together a press.
 

Wayne's World

Full Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2010
Messages
9,259
Location
Ireland
Literally clubs like Watford wouldn't put up with this so why are we? We are the biggest laughing stock in Europe and especially England at present

What are we doing? We are acting like Stoke City not one of the biggest clubs in the world.
 

sunama

Baghdad Bob
Joined
Apr 26, 2014
Messages
16,830
Are we all happy to admit that the excuses of the players not being fit enough to do a high press last season is complete shit. There’s no intention of putting together a press.
I called this last season. Athletes do not need 6 months to increase their fitness - 6 weeks is more than enough to improve their fitness, after they have been playing in a relaxed (low intensity) style for over a year.
Our attack is particularly dreadful.
The strange this is that Ole was a top striker, so he should e able to teach the attackers how to attack...but apparently not.
0 shots on target, btw.