Josh King

SteveW

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And King had those same injuries at the start of his career. Injuries are a part of football. At the end of the day one is a pretty decent PL forward whilst the other is totally washed up.

PL stats:
Welbeck
209 games
42 goals
20 assists

King
142 games
44 goals
12 assists
I don't want to get into this with a Norwegian. As I said I've always rated King. I like him and I've followed his career with interest. I'm not going to start knocking him to prove a point. He's a good player. Would I take him right now over Welbeck? Obviously. Has Welbeck achieved more and had a better overall career so far? Obviously.

Welbeck played for United or Arsenal. He's won all of the domestic trophies. King has got himself to Bournemouth. Neither of them have particularly impressive career stats. Then again Danny's game was always about much more than goals. Stats have always been the reductive tool people have used to bash him with. Yet even looking at stats there's no major difference between them despite King being a penalty taker.

If's Josh is as good Welbeck was one of the big clubs will sign him. If not they probably won't. Do not misconstrue this as criticism. I'm a fan of King.
 

njred

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Made a mockery of our £150m defence.
That was bad.
United have taken 8 points off the top 5 teams. And only 5 points from the other 15 mid to shit teams. Really bad times for your team right now. Worst I can remember since the 80s. Played good against big boys but crap against the rest back then too
 

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I really rated him around 2009, but then again at the time I also thought Magnus Eikrem could make it here.
 

awop

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Made a mockery of Lindeloff you mean....
8 times out of 10 a striker in King's position looks for a cut back for someone to shoot. I think Lindeloff's instinct to go up and try to block a pass was the right thing to do.
I'm more puzzled why your right back is in that position on an open play sequence and why he didn't just stood his ground once he saw King had done him with a sombrero.
 

MikeKing

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It was a very nice goal. He has his flaws, especially in tight spaces but he is strong as a bull and very clinical.
 

MikeKing

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8 times out of 10 a striker in King's position looks for a cut back for someone to shoot. I think Lindeloff's instinct to go up and try to block a pass was the right thing to do.
I'm more puzzled why your right back is in that position on an open play sequence and why he didn't just stood his ground once he saw King had done him with a sombrero.
Because he was covering Lindelof who lost his man. Decent movement from King, but nothing out of the ordinary to lose track of him like that. Lindelof didn't try to block a pass, he tried to block a potential shot way before it was in front of him. That is not how defending works. He is so ahead of time and reads things so well the game just happens to pass him right by, innit. He watches everything closely, he'll have deep philosophical understanding of football when he is retired, but at that point it is too late to react. Maybe he can get into coaching, or maybe he'd be stuck in the books forever.
 

awop

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Because he was covering Lindelof who lost his man. Decent movement from King, but nothing out of the ordinary to lose track of him like that. Lindelof didn't try to block a pass, he tried to block a potential shot way before it was in front of him. That is not how defending works. He is so ahead of time and reads things so well the game just happens to pass him right by, innit. He watches everything closely, he'll have deep philosophical understanding of football when he is retired, but at that point it is too late to react. Maybe he can get into coaching, or maybe he'd be stuck in the books forever.
Don't know why you are so worked up but anyway watching it again, it looks to me like Lindeloff is expecting King to play the ball to Wilson (#22) who is clearly appealing for the ball with his arms and, i'm guessing, by voice too.

You are right that Lindeloff lost his man for a split second when the same Wilson made a run, ignored by Fraser. It takes a second for Lindeloff to make a step to the the left while King makes one to the right. Suddenly King has space to execute his move. But if Fraser plays a through ball between Fred and McTominay, who should have been there to stop Wilson ? Lindeloff. Again i think his instinct was good, he covered the most dangereous and probable option twice in a row. To me you can't get passed the way Wan Bissaka did 6yd in front of your goal. He might not be the strongest kid yet but that was too easy for King.
 

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Don't know why you are so worked up but anyway watching it again, it looks to me like Lindeloff is expecting King to play the ball to Wilson (#22) who is clearly appealing for the ball with his arms and, i'm guessing, by voice too.

You are right that Lindeloff lost his man for a split second when the same Wilson made a run, ignored by Fraser. It takes a second for Lindeloff to make a step to the the left while King makes one to the right. Suddenly King has space to execute his move. But if Fraser plays a through ball between Fred and McTominay, who should have been there to stop Wilson ? Lindeloff. Again i think his instinct was good, he covered the most dangereous and probable option twice in a row. To me you can't get passed the way Wan Bissaka did 6yd in front of your goal. He might not be the strongest kid yet but that was too easy for King.
I get what your saying as I did watch the clip, but you just can't be dragged out of position that easily. The most dangerous area is right in front of goal. If you let a man down to the byline he still has a lot of work to do. If you let a man like King have that much space in the box, its a goal. That is what really happened if you ignore Bissaka stepping in, its wide open right in front of goal.
 

awop

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I get what your saying as I did watch the clip, but you just can't be dragged out of position that easily. The most dangerous area is right in front of goal. If you let a man down to the byline he still has a lot of work to do. If you let a man like King have that much space in the box, its a goal. That is what really happened if you ignore Bissaka stepping in, its wide open right in front of goal.
I don't know, if given the choice i'd prefer my team to be defending a static striker back to the goal than a rushing winger on the diagonal. But back to king he did great to create a goal for himself. Can't wait to see what he will do for Everton when they inevitably buy him for 50m this summer.
 

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I don't know, if given the choice i'd prefer my team to be defending a static striker back to the goal than a rushing winger on the diagonal. But back to king he did great to create a goal for himself. Can't wait to see what he will do for Everton when they inevitably buy him for 50m this summer.
You're kidding right? If Bissaka isn't there he wouldn't even be with his back to goal for that long, it would be a quick turn for a tap in. It was a nice bit of improvisation from King but there is no doubt Lindelof should be rushing in to physically offset him and crowd the area, thereby increasing the chance of our team blocking any potential shot if King manages to pass it out. Lindelof is not wrong in spotting the danger, but filtering out the information to then make the correct decision is a big part of top class defending, but the uncertainty he showed there doesn't belong at PL-level honestly.

I don't think Everton will buy him. They eventually have to stop making silly purchases. I do think King is at the perfect club for him and I don't see why he would want to move unless a big, maybe Italian club like Juve or something that wants him.
 

awop

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You're kidding right? If Bissaka isn't there he wouldn't even be with his back to goal for that long, it would be a quick turn for a tap in. It was a nice bit of improvisation from King but there is no doubt Lindelof should be rushing in to physically offset him and crowd the area, thereby increasing the chance of our team blocking any potential shot if King manages to pass it out. Lindelof is not wrong in spotting the danger, but filtering out the information to then make the correct decision is a big part of top class defending, but the uncertainty he showed there doesn't belong at PL-level honestly.

I don't think Everton will buy him. They eventually have to stop making silly purchases. I do think King is at the perfect club for him and I don't see why he would want to move unless a big, maybe Italian club like Juve or something that wants him.
But if Bissaka isn't there then it would have been Maguire that covered King and Bissaka covering Maguire's man (assuming the defense is in a "normal" position), every player shifts. It probably would have been even better that Bissaka wasn't there because i'd be more confident that Maguire would not get bullied by King that easily.
The Everton part was tongue in cheek but i agree that a front three of Ronaldo-King-Dybala is mouth watering. :lol:
 
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8 times out of 10 a striker in King's position looks for a cut back for someone to shoot. I think Lindeloff's instinct to go up and try to block a pass was the right thing to do.
I'm more puzzled why your right back is in that position on an open play sequence and why he didn't just stood his ground once he saw King had done him with a sombrero.
Its a miss match between most fullbacks and a striker like King. Lindeloff had no business leaving a King to a fullback to deal with.
 

awop

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Its a miss match between most fullbacks and a striker like King. Lindeloff had no business leaving a King to a fullback to deal with.
I must not be watching the same goal, if anything it's Maguire that have visual on King most of the time...He even clashes with AWB. In my honest opinion the biggest mistakes on this goal came from your two shiny new toys. You seem pretty hell bent on blaming Lindeloff though so i'll leave you to it.
 

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8 times out of 10 a striker in King's position looks for a cut back for someone to shoot. I think Lindeloff's instinct to go up and try to block a pass was the right thing to do.
I'm more puzzled why your right back is in that position on an open play sequence and why he didn't just stood his ground once he saw King had done him with a sombrero.
I'm not too surprised an Arsenal fan suggests good defending is rushing away from a striker in the box with the ball. Its suicide for a defender and a pass back to the edge of the box is a responsibility for the midfield to track
 

awop

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I'm not too surprised an Arsenal fan suggests good defending is rushing away from a striker in the box with the ball. Its suicide for a defender and a pass back to the edge of the box is a responsibility for the midfield to track
Yep, Lindeloff rushed away from King when he had the ball, that is exactly what happened. Maguire marshalled that defence to perfection and AWB, what a player ! As i said, keep bashing, nothing a hundred millions can't fix.
 

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Yep, Lindeloff rushed away from King when he had the ball, that is exactly what happened. Maguire marshalled that defence to perfection and AWB, what a player ! As i said, keep bashing, nothing a hundred millions can't fix.
Keep making shit up as if Maguire and AWB arent better than Arsenal's defenders :lol:

I hope everytime we play Arsenal your CBs defend like you're saying Lindelof did correctly here
 

MikeKing

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Yep, Lindeloff rushed away from King when he had the ball, that is exactly what happened. Maguire marshalled that defence to perfection and AWB, what a player ! As i said, keep bashing, nothing a hundred millions can't fix.
So your whole schtick here for saying ludicrous things was banter all along? "hurr hurr, defence sucks" Why can't guys like you make it more clear what you are up to so others don't waste their time misunderstanding your disingenuousness for actual stupidity.
 

awop

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Keep making shit up as if Maguire and AWB arent better than Arsenal's defenders :lol:

I hope everytime we play Arsenal your CBs defend like you're saying Lindelof did correctly here
Where did i say anything about Arsenal being better or worse than your defenders and why does it matter what club i support, you're the one bringing it up...
I can't comment on United players if i'm not a United fan ? No need to hope we're already defending like clowns every weekend :lol:
You're accusing me of making shit up when you're actually the one doing it, pretty weird.
So your whole schtick here for saying ludicrous things was banter all along? "hurr hurr, defence sucks" Why can't guys like you make it more clear what you are up to so others don't waste their time misunderstanding your disingenuousness for actual stupidity.
What on earth are you on about ? There is no intent for banter at all, i just watched the clip multiple times and disagree that it's all on Lindeloff and explained why with specific points. You're the one that went mental with "deep psychological understanding" and "he'll only be good when he retire" for no reason.
What did i write that was dinsingenuous ? Anything that doesn't align with your view of the incident ? Why are you so upset ?
The whole defence is to blame but saying that it's all on Lindeloff is disingenuous to me, that's it. You can disagree, relax, it's perfectly fine.Jesus. :houllier:
 

MikeKing

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What on earth are you on about ? There is no intent for banter at all, i just watched the clip multiple times and disagree that it's all on Lindeloff and explained why with specific points. You're the one that went mental with "deep psychological understanding" and "he'll only be good when he retire" for no reason.
What did i write that was dinsingenuous ? Anything that doesn't align with your view of the incident ? Why are you so upset ?
The whole defence is to blame but saying that it's all on Lindeloff is disingenuous to me, that's it. You can disagree, relax, it's perfectly fine.Jesus. :houllier:
Sorry then, mate. Maybe I was a bit heated from the game having lost to such a sissy piece of defending from Lindelof, and you are entitled to your opinion as well without being called disingenuous so I do apologise for that.
 
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I must not be watching the same goal, if anything it's Maguire that have visual on King most of the time...He even clashes with AWB. In my honest opinion the biggest mistakes on this goal came from your two shiny new toys. You seem pretty hell bent on blaming Lindeloff though so i'll leave you to it.
Its simple. As long as one striker of a twin is picked up by one center back, the other striker is the man of the second center back. There are zero excuses. Passing the player off to other defenders to supposedly cut out passes or whatever is just criminal. Its basic central defending 101. I'm not being "hell bent" on anything beyond obvious rules of defending. Lindeloff spends the entire move ball watching. Utterly oblivious to Wilson and King swapping positions and instead covering space that could easily have been dealt with by McTominay. He just let his man drift away unmarked and is literally in no mans land when Smith crosses to King.


Wan Bissaka 'made it easy' because he is simply not used to defending strikers. That is why I stated it was a miss match. He is used to having a person to tackle. Not a person who controls a ball to ping it. The moment King controlled the ball Wan Bissaka was done for. And I contend he should never have been the one having to pick up King in the first place. Because having a natural fullback as the marker to the striker is precisely the kinda confusion AFC Bournemourth wanted to forment when Wilson and King swapped positions...
 
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devilish

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He sold AWB a dummy. Its that simple
 

TwoSheds

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He sold AWB a dummy. Its that simple
Yep. I think a little blame can be attached to the other defenders but AWB is a young defender that used to be a winger who got over eager and sent to the shops by King. He'll learn from it, and tbh it was a bit uncharacteristic anyway, he was dreadful all game IMO.
 

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AWB deserves some blame for sure, but its not surprising when a RB doesnt play like you'd hope your CB would. I think AWB has a lot of potential for being a RCB in a back 3, but he has no experience playing CB. He was filling in, he shouldnt have needed to be there but Lindelof leaving holes meant he tried to cover him
 

devilish

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AWB deserves some blame for sure, but its not surprising when a RB doesnt play like you'd hope your CB would. I think AWB has a lot of potential for being a RCB in a back 3, but he has no experience playing CB. He was filling in, he shouldnt have needed to be there but Lindelof leaving holes meant he tried to cover him
AWB is a defensive Wingback. He needs to be judged on his defensive contribution rather then having to rely on a ball playing CB of all people to bail him out. Honestly if rather have CBs who know to defend and FBs who knows how to cross the ball. Unfortunately that's rarely the case with modern football


Having said that as TwoSheds said this is no biggie. AWB is young and learning and he will learn from it. I'm more worried about our inability to score goals. We played Bournemouth not Real M
 

11101

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Its simple. As long as one striker of a twin is picked up by one center back, the other striker is the man of the second center back. There are zero excuses. Passing the player off to other defenders to supposedly cut out passes or whatever is just criminal. Its basic central defending 101. I'm not being "hell bent" on anything beyond obvious rules of defending. Lindeloff spends the entire move ball watching. Utterly oblivious to Wilson and King swapping positions and instead covering space that could easily have been dealt with by McTominay. He just let his man drift away unmarked and is literally in no mans land when Smith crosses to King.
That's not really true at all. The two centre backs target the two forwards but they don't blindly follow them around the pitch. Lindelof moves to cover the runner coming in after Young leaves him, and AWB picks up King. That's all totally fine to that point. These are top level pros, all of them can defend. It's not schoolboy football where the biggest defender runs around marking the best player on the other team.

Lindelof made a mistake in stepping out when King turned but that's minor compared to AWB getting done so easily.
 

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Its simple. As long as one striker of a twin is picked up by one center back, the other striker is the man of the second center back. There are zero excuses. Passing the player off to other defenders to supposedly cut out passes or whatever is just criminal. Its basic central defending 101. I'm not being "hell bent" on anything beyond obvious rules of defending. Lindeloff spends the entire move ball watching. Utterly oblivious to Wilson and King swapping positions and instead covering space that could easily have been dealt with by McTominay. He just let his man drift away unmarked and is literally in no mans land when Smith crosses to King.


Wan Bissaka 'made it easy' because he is simply not used to defending strikers. That is why I stated it was a miss match. He is used to having a person to tackle. Not a person who controls a ball to ping it. The moment King controlled the ball Wan Bissaka was done for. And I contend he should never have been the one having to pick up King in the first place. Because having a natural fullback as the marker to the striker is precisely the kinda confusion AFC Bournemourth wanted to forment when Wilson and King swapped positions...
Fair enough, i guess i'm guilty of ball watching too when looking at that goal. You're right that CBs should be marking the 2 strikers but in every game you have moments like this where your form goes out the window and you need to adapt for a few seconds.Which to be fair, AWB did, by immediately seeing the danger and stepping up. That's the follow-up that ruined it. It was a bad mistake and, to me, a bigger one than Lindeloff made regardless of their age/experience. Your dificulties to score at the moment will obviously highlight any mistake your defense makes.
 

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AWB is a defensive Wingback. He needs to be judged on his defensive contribution rather then having to rely on a ball playing CB of all people to bail him out. Honestly if rather have CBs who know to defend and FBs who knows how to cross the ball. Unfortunately that's rarely the case with modern football


Having said that as TwoSheds said this is no biggie. AWB is young and learning and he will learn from it. I'm more worried about our inability to score goals. We played Bournemouth not Real M
A ball playing CB bail him out? He was filling in for Lindelof :lol::lol::lol:
 
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Fair enough, i guess i'm guilty of ball watching too when looking at that goal. You're right that CBs should be marking the 2 strikers but in every game you have moments like this where your form goes out the window and you need to adapt for a few seconds.Which to be fair, AWB did, by immediately seeing the danger and stepping up. That's the follow-up that ruined it. It was a bad mistake and, to me, a bigger one than Lindeloff made regardless of their age/experience. Your dificulties to score at the moment will obviously highlight any mistake your defense makes.
Fair enough