Option to change your vote should be put up after every 5 or 10 games.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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Our general long term plan is probably the right way to go but without a competent manager this project won’t work. The sad part is that whatever we do it will temporarily take us backwards, one way or another.
I honestly don’t know what’s best. If we sack him we must find a better replacement. That’s the hard part.
Btw. I don’t know if I’m alone but I’m not even angry any longer, just tired. What a mess.
I honestly don’t know what’s best. If we sack him we must find a better replacement. That’s the hard part.
Btw. I don’t know if I’m alone but I’m not even angry any longer, just tired. What a mess.
Makes no sense. You appear to think our biggest problem is constantly changing of managers. In that case you believe
- Moyes shouldn't have been fired despite being out of depth. And he can't even blame the 'constant change of managers' given he got a club that had one man for 25 plus years.
- LVG shouldnt have been fired despite his team playing extremely boring and ineffective football, while spending massive sums of money on failed transfers.
- Mourinho shouldn't have been fired despite also spending enormous sums of money and leaving us nearly where we were when he began.
- Ole shouldnt be fired becuase the previous three managers were fired despite him appearing to be completely incapable of doing the job be was hired to do.
Maybe we should have just stuck with Moyes for these 7 years because our owners aren't perfect and hence he could never be held accountable.
The AZ game was not a typical of this season - it was a boring defensive effort where we didn't even look like trying most of the time. By design I think - and actually we did manage to put in a decent defensive effort so it wasn't all bad just horrible entertainment. However that's not how we've looked in the league this season. I mean come on you have to admit we've been unlucky as feck in The Premiership - that it isn't all down to lack of trying?
Two missed penalties that would have won us both games - neither Rashford nor Martial or anyone else for that matter being able to net even an open goal? Clear-cut penalties denied (Martial when they pushed him to the ground right in front of the referee and also that hands against Arsenal)? The assistant lineman gifting Arsenal their equalizer (seriously he should actually get an assist for that one) by putting both De Gea and our defense off their game confusing everyone and disrupting our flow with one of the dumbest decisions ever witnessed in a professional league?
We are pressing high this season - we haven't done that for years - and we're also keeping the ball something we certainly didn't manage last year. Also - our players are actually putting in proper shifts again even looking invested and focused while doing so - without having to spend minutes gasping for air - which again is a huge step up from our previous campaign. Our main problem is we're not creating as much as our buildup warrants and even when we do our attackers aren't converting.
Oh and I'm thoroughly disappointed we didn't fix this weakness already during the summer because it was too obvious for almost all of us that this part of our squad needed strengthening - that neither Lingard nor Rashford are mature enough to carry us offensively. If Ole did what he said he'd do and brought in a couple of quality players up front I think we'd all be laughing at present.
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I still think LVGs coaching was good, however he was bad at recruting and he lost the players (they stopped reading his e-mails etc, which was very unprofessional).
Technically he was a very good coach, in a different stratosphere to OGS. With the right recruitment and man management he would had been a success.
Mourinho also had some success, but then had his meltdown and there was only a matter of time until he had to go.
As someone else stated before, from Moyes to Solskjaer, the managers we have had with the best CVs have achieved the best results.
Important to remember that there are different levels of failing. Mourinho and LVG failed to get CL-football, but now we are in relegation form.
Not sacking Solskjaer because we have sacked a lot of managers and are still bad is a very weird and illogical argument. (I know that you did not state it, but I see others in the thread stating that argument).
The club is facing far too many issues right now but in the hierarchy of problems ole IMHO is the least of it. Starting with owners who have no idea how to appoint a CEO and how much to trust him. Followed by a nincompoop of a CEO who is forever chasing his own tail to the players and the sheer volume of deadwood we have accumulated and then the manager who is not proven or displayed any tactical brilliance in his time here.
I don't believe that firing a manager who is at least attempting to do the right thing is the right way to go right now. Especially given the poor quality of options available right now.
I don't believe that firing a manager who is at least attempting to do the right thing is the right way to go right now. Especially given the poor quality of options available right now.
If attempting to do the right thing was the only requirement for staying in a job, very few managers would be fired. There must be some standards and performance targets that must be reached.
As for the poor quality of options available, there are hundreds that are better than OGS. Lars Lagerbäck for example is a way better coach than him, not that I would want him here.
Difficult one.
He is clearing out well
And his signings have been good
And he’ll give youth a chance
And we can’t go an a perpetual cycle of hiring and firing managers
...and he’s a legend
But negating all that. The football is terrible.
Perhaps give him another 12 months. In that time 4 more signings and then let’s see how he does. He has after all inherited an awful squad.
He is clearing out well
And his signings have been good
And he’ll give youth a chance
And we can’t go an a perpetual cycle of hiring and firing managers
...and he’s a legend
But negating all that. The football is terrible.
Perhaps give him another 12 months. In that time 4 more signings and then let’s see how he does. He has after all inherited an awful squad.
If only you could get away with only doing 3/4 of your job in other professions.
Pilot : takes off well, decent in cruise, but often crash lands. Let's give him a few more years to see if he can fix his landings
Teacher : knows his stuff, teaches well, but is a paedo. Let's give him another year, if you can work that out of him.
1. He is clearing out some of the deadwood but not all of it - as evidenced by the fact that Young, Matic, Jones etc. are still at the club. He cleared out strikers and that has brought our attack to its knees.
2. Throwing youth into must-win games is not giving them a chance - it's making it hard for them to develop. Youth needs to be introduced into a well functioning system.
3. Big clubs take decisive action when a manager is found to be absolutely out of his depth. It has worked for every big club including Madrid, Chelsea etc. Just because we were lucky with SAF does not mean that we have to persist with every poor manager.
Ole please, just resign. A couple more months of this nightmare and everyone will hate you, regardless of those goals you scored for us. There's no shame in admitting you're out of your depth but being worse than Moyes is beyond shameful. Have some dignity and walk away.
We had been piss poor for the best part of a year when Fergie took over. He started off with 18 months of solid improvement, finishing his first full season in second. The following season we were all over the place, with really good performances followed by awful ones, which suggested that the problem wasn’t the coaching, nor the quality of the players, but more of a mentality thing. The fans were still fully on board at that point. Doubts only really set in during that shocking run you mention at the beginning of his third full season. I was firmly among the doubters by then, and all that really kept my faith was the clarity and wisdom he showed in his column in United Review. It was apparent he had a plan, even though it might not have been obvious to us what that plan entailed
I think it’s really stretching things to draw parallels with Ole. I know Haram winds people up by banging on about it non-stop (just noticed he’s been banned!) but we DID finish second only a few months before he was appointed. His initial good run only lasted around four months (at a push), not 18. We haven’t been enjoying the occasional sparkling performance in among all the garbage ones. And finally, his post match interviews are increasingly just displays of increasingly desperate optimism. Working harder and hoping for penalties isn’t a plan.
Oh, and we’ve been here before with how good his signings have been initially. In any case, I think it’s pretty certain that Jose wanted Maguire.
Let’s just hope for a sparkling performance against Newcastle. It’s about time Brucey did us a favour...
I wont hate him. Anyone that hates someone because of football is an idiot.
He's trying. Its not working. No reason to hate him.
Well that’s false.
He’s cleared out deadwood and also created more deadwood. Rashford; Lingard; Shaw; Lindelof; Pierera all looking extra shite.
His signings have been here a month. If Dan James doesn’t kick on with his development he’ll be deadwood too. I don’t want to be seeing this player 12 months done the line. Harry Maguire is good on the ball but I wouldn’t know because he don’t keep it well.
I rather he didn’t give youth a chance.. the more they play the more I fear for their overall career.
We’re in the cycle and to be quite frank.. we are sacking managers poorly too. We are taking too long at it.
You're right, let me rephrase: Disgraced, laughed at, remembered as incompetent failure, being the bottom benchmark for any future manager. Does the name David Moyes ring a bell?
It's not too late for Ole, he can just hand over the keys and return to Norway without financial compensation. Then we'll remember him as someone who "tried, but it simply didn't work out".
Moyes 2.0
This isn't true at all, where is Smalling, Sanchez, Lukaku, Rooney, Schneiderlin, Memphis, Nani, Evan's et al? Is that not being held accountable? After the Moyes debacle the likes of Rio, Kagawa etc paid, after Van Gaal another handful paid and we now have Ole doing a mini clear out. We do have issues and those issues center around poor recruitment of managers and players but the fact that Ole is another example of that poor recruitment shouldn't shield him from being held to account, unlike Mourinho no one is demanding that he goes toe to toe with City/Liverpool he is failing at the basics.
It really is the stupidest argument I regularly see for keeping him.
Just makes no sense at all
Moyes had no business managing us were it not for Fergie's recommendations. LVG's brand of football was outdated, he was a coaching dinosaur who was as stubborn as hell, Madrid had damaged Mourinho already and Chelsea escalated it before his sack and we picked him up. Hiring Ole is as sound a decision as hiring the coach of Rosenborg, only difference is he used to play for us.
While I know Woodward has been terrible but a progressive, modern tactically astute manager can get us playing decent football for starters and any day we appoint such and he still fails, then I will conclude that the players are that shit. No matter what you say, these players are better than the players of some of the teams they have lost to or drawn in recent times.
I think we should just ignore the fact that the longer he "coaches" us the worse we look. He is turning into SAF any moment now...
I'm not Ole out or Ole in really as let's be honest for the most part it will make feck all difference.
But if we are also honest with ourselves if our current manager wasn't an ex player he would have been sacked or be very close to it by now.
Again though all the major problems go back to Woodward and the board. There was 0 reason to give Ole the permanent position when we did. Should have waited longer into his run and evaluated.
They must likely saw a cheap option and not an adoption they where sure would work.
I'd Ole magically survives till Jan he needs to look at bringing in 2 maybe even 3 players. While unprecedented in the Jan window it will very likely be the only way he or any manager can salvage the season and start to build.
No sense waiting till another summer.
Drop points to Newcastle and lose to pool and it will all go really sour really quick.
But if we are also honest with ourselves if our current manager wasn't an ex player he would have been sacked or be very close to it by now.
Again though all the major problems go back to Woodward and the board. There was 0 reason to give Ole the permanent position when we did. Should have waited longer into his run and evaluated.
They must likely saw a cheap option and not an adoption they where sure would work.
I'd Ole magically survives till Jan he needs to look at bringing in 2 maybe even 3 players. While unprecedented in the Jan window it will very likely be the only way he or any manager can salvage the season and start to build.
No sense waiting till another summer.
Drop points to Newcastle and lose to pool and it will all go really sour really quick.
I actually think this is the one instance we will not sack a manager who finishes outside the top four. The decision makers feel/hope Solskjaer is building something and will give him another season. I guess they're praying lighting will strike twice as when Bobby Charlton et al persuaded Edwards not to bin Fergie in 1989/90.
If only...
If only...
I've told myself this in the past. Until we hire a truly progressive manager known for attacking football, I can't rule out the new manager can have a positive impact on the side. We literally haven't gone after that type of coach. LVG used to be that type of coach in the 90s. We're in the 2010s now, and about to be in the 2020s.
I don't get this argument at all. As useless our board is and as broken our structure is, neither Ed nor Glazers coach the team, pick stupid team selections etc (I hope?). Since Ole took over, every single player genuinely got worse and we are playing some worst football since SAF (including Moyes). How can having a better manager not improve things? Fact that we simply chosen the wrong managers (2 absolutely clueless ones in Moyes and Ole and 2 clearly past their best in LVG and Jose) shouldn't make people think that we should just stop trying anymore and stick with someone who is doing an absolutely terrible job just because we failed previous 3 appointments. We should try until we succeed, that's the only way. Keeping someone like Ole is clearly not a solution.
In relative terms, I’d argue were the worst run team in the league, value for money has been by far the worst in transfers. Still appointing coaches who don’t play an attacking brand, stripping out the squad to the bare bones.
Ole was a mistake, what do the coaching staff even do in training? Rashford 300k a week... Any good business gets ruined by countless mistakes elsewhere
Everyone said after Mourinho we need a hard reset, that was to flush out the mercernaries and get players in to fit with a style of play.
That meant literally shipping out 6/7 players and bringing 6/7 new ones in, not this nonsense everyone spouts about ‘you can’t just replace half a squad in one window’, yes, you can, it is desperately needed at United.
Every, and I mean every other club can find reasonably priced great players yet our lot can’t.
Ole was a mistake, what do the coaching staff even do in training? Rashford 300k a week... Any good business gets ruined by countless mistakes elsewhere
Everyone said after Mourinho we need a hard reset, that was to flush out the mercernaries and get players in to fit with a style of play.
That meant literally shipping out 6/7 players and bringing 6/7 new ones in, not this nonsense everyone spouts about ‘you can’t just replace half a squad in one window’, yes, you can, it is desperately needed at United.
Every, and I mean every other club can find reasonably priced great players yet our lot can’t.
No player is going to come to Utd with OGS as a coach.
UTD becomes more and more unattractive to majority of players the higher number of years we're mediocre, and he has no overarching philosophy or coaching pedigree to attract players that dont buy into the Utd Way and Youth mantra (next to none in the modern day we can target and be a top club...)
So far his decision making has been awful, even in pure squad selection and prioritisation. He benched Lukaku out of the club, a proven striker entering his prime year with guaranteed goals (and eventually forced out of the club at a meh price), for Rashford whos best position isnt even striker.
Similarily for herrera we kept the likes of matic, perreira, etc. and refused to upgrade Herreras pay. Bare in mind we've done that for Jones in that same time frame and put Rashford on one of the highest salaries in the prem.
I think its time people wake up and realise we're not really going upwards with him, the only good thing hes done is clear out SOME dead wood, if at all (and hes added more as were going forward). His entire tenure has been awful with the exception of the initial run that any fresh face can inject.
Keep OGS for his contract if we want to be a mid table team that plays somewhat decent attacking football SOMETIMES, but mainly has english players that can run fast, e.g. Liverpool in the 2000s (minus the UCL pursuits). Otherwise get rid as soon as any other option is available, dont care if its mid season.
UTD becomes more and more unattractive to majority of players the higher number of years we're mediocre, and he has no overarching philosophy or coaching pedigree to attract players that dont buy into the Utd Way and Youth mantra (next to none in the modern day we can target and be a top club...)
So far his decision making has been awful, even in pure squad selection and prioritisation. He benched Lukaku out of the club, a proven striker entering his prime year with guaranteed goals (and eventually forced out of the club at a meh price), for Rashford whos best position isnt even striker.
Similarily for herrera we kept the likes of matic, perreira, etc. and refused to upgrade Herreras pay. Bare in mind we've done that for Jones in that same time frame and put Rashford on one of the highest salaries in the prem.
I think its time people wake up and realise we're not really going upwards with him, the only good thing hes done is clear out SOME dead wood, if at all (and hes added more as were going forward). His entire tenure has been awful with the exception of the initial run that any fresh face can inject.
Keep OGS for his contract if we want to be a mid table team that plays somewhat decent attacking football SOMETIMES, but mainly has english players that can run fast, e.g. Liverpool in the 2000s (minus the UCL pursuits). Otherwise get rid as soon as any other option is available, dont care if its mid season.
I mean sure but we aren't looking at finishing outside the top 4. We are looking at finishing outside the top 6. Maybe 8th?
We have a better team than that and we'll Ole allowed to team to get worse in attack choosing not to replace Lukaku.
We must have a cut off point that just isn't good enough. For me that can't be lower than 6th.
It’s very odd way of looking at it. You would keep the worst one on the premise that you fired the last 3?
Basically you are evaluated not on stinking up your job at the moment but on the guys before you?
The cut off point is anything below 4th im afraid. I don't care what the squad looks like, the manager said he is happy with it and we have to take it as that. If you are satisfied with the squad you have to deliver or face the consequences.
Enough about it will take time, what to finish 4th? Ole is ruining his reputation because there will be a point where NOBODY will believe him.
But the problem is that he doesn't have the competence to sort anything out and because of that the only thing that takes time is the trigger finally being pulled on him.
I'd take my chance on 50/50 chance on the next manager.
With Ole it's 50/50 we'd get relegated
With Ole it's 50/50 we'd get relegated
8th is really optimistic at this stage. He’s a relegation level manager. 10th suits us better if we are realistic.
everyone knows he will get sacked soon, same story of Jose last year.
I admire your optimism. Can imagine you will still swinging come November / December when we would be a lot worse than now.
Our mistakes is thinking 2nd with that United team is a failure. We're impatience and thinks all it takes is a modern young attacking manager and we'll win the league.
Bollocks our squad needs rebuilding, by the time we finished our rebuilt other teams have 3-4 more titles in their bag. Here we are thinking it's Ok, once the rebuilt is done we'll sweep everything.
I think Ole should be given until March 2020, and 1 more window to show if he can improve the team. If not then go all out for Pochettino.
Greenwood needs to go out on loan next season. Garner possibly too.
Ole has had a massive thankless rebuild, after 6 years of terrible spending from 3 terrible managers. He's gotten an awful lot right since he arrived, but is he making the correct team selections week in week out? I'm not so sure. His insistence on using Pereira, Lingard and Mata, while playing Pogba away from his favoured position is baffling. Diogo Dalot should play as the right sided forward, and I'm not sure who should play next to Scott in Central mid but Pogba, Fred, Matic and Pereira are all garbage there.
Greenwood needs to go out on loan next season. Garner possibly too.
Ole has had a massive thankless rebuild, after 6 years of terrible spending from 3 terrible managers. He's gotten an awful lot right since he arrived, but is he making the correct team selections week in week out? I'm not so sure. His insistence on using Pereira, Lingard and Mata, while playing Pogba away from his favoured position is baffling. Diogo Dalot should play as the right sided forward, and I'm not sure who should play next to Scott in Central mid but Pogba, Fred, Matic and Pereira are all garbage there.
He has the Jose card, ole was sacked because Jose the cnut left him a poisoned chalice of a team
Sense. Finally.
Why?
Nobody asked him to win the league in style, his job is top 6.
If he can't even get that he's not the man we could trust for a 3 years rebuild.
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