Lack of Coaching

Sky1981

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It's a question of being able to run more, and better, than other people who are elite athletes, so I do understand what the other poster is saying. You want to try and turn Veron into Milner?
So do i. I understand his point.

But we're not talking about having a 3 lung like park. Many team press intelligently without having to sprint for 90 minutes. It's not about running, it's about intelligently and tactically closing the space.

Barcelona tiki taka is the best team in pressing I've ever witnessed, they never broke a sweat in sprinting (although tbf they run alot).

The op is saying we cant train to press for 90 minutes, yes if you say it's headless chicken running. But coordinated press with 10 mths conditioning? Our team is one of the youngest, stamina and running should be abundance.
 

tomaldinho1

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Anyone wondering about whether our team is poor individually or is the coaching is poor, need only watch Brighton. They might not end up winning but it's all one touch, they're exploiting space and you can see how they want to develop the play - it's not just having possession for the sake of it.

As i type they go 2-0 up...
 

Anustart89

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Anyone wondering about whether our team is poor individually or is the coaching is poor, need only watch Brighton. They might not end up winning but it's all one touch, they're exploiting space and you can see how they want to develop the play - it's not just having possession for the sake of it.

As i type they go 2-0 up...
They'll probably say (with a straight face) that they've simply got better players than us.
 

AaronRedDevil

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One thing I can't wrap my head around is that when ole first joined United played free flowing attacking football, it was like watching united again. Now all of a sudden it feels like Jose is back in charge with zero attacking sense going on. What the hell happen to that attack? Yeah we conceded goals but at least we were fearless in risks
 

Schmeichel=God

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It's about identifying your players' strengths, spot the synergies that can be created between the abilities of two or more players and then use all that in order to maximize the spaces in the attacking half and increase the quality of your chances.

There are a lot of things you can say about Pep but we can use some simple things as an example. Firstly, his designs always revolve around the abilities of his creative players: On the right side, KdB is one of the most dynamic players on the ball and he's probably the best creative player in the world when he is running with the ball. He's accommodated most times by B. Silva who's an excellent wide playmaker and by Walker who can operate wide as well as more centrally. Silva's natural game creates spaces for KdB's driving runs and the havoc the Belgian wreaks opens up pockets of space for B. Silva. On the left, it's usually the steady presence of Silva (the Spaniard) in the left half- space that works as a stepping stone for Sterling's movement near or inside the box. It looks easy but it's not.

Then you see how rapidly they move the ball when they set an attacking move in motion successfully. KdB's runs with the ball generate movement in the box. Silva cutting inside sees Aguero dropping deeper and KdB moving wide for a cross etc. The way they create 1v1 situations for Sterling is fantastic and whenever the latter takes on a defender the rest help him not by simply making themselves available but by attacking spaces where they can be threatening themselves.

Ferguson was very good at it too and he didn't need the most expensive squad in the world to do it either. Nani could do 1+3 things good: Cut inside and then either shoot, cross to the far post or try a neat one-two. Evra's overlaps and Rooney's movement in between the lines created multiple opportunities for Nani to do his thing. And we made the most out of it. Valencia looked the part on the right wing before his injury because he and Rooney had developed an undestanding between them that Ferguson nurtured. Valencia would use his pace in order to receive the switch-play ball from Rooney and then Rooney would attack the cross at the far post from Tony.

There's a lot of talk on the Caf about flair, freedom of expression and managers who teach their players how to be robots on the pitch. Pep has claimed several times that the scoring of goals and the creation of chances is his players' responsibility. Klopp, when asked what his atracking plan is, he usually responds something like "getting as many players in and around the box as possible". Of course, there are patterns of play but i think it's one thing they are getting absolutely spot on: They don't overrate their players.

Which is somehing that is happening with Ole. For his trust in Lingard and Mata many words have been written on here already. But the truth is that this was a monumental feck-up because it forces Rashford in an Hazard-type wide role which is clearly too much for him. Shaw not being fit enough to constantly overlap adds to this.

There's also too much faith in Martial & Rashford's ability to lead the line. Modern creative/attacking footballers are all about intensity and the ability on the ball in tight spaces/under pressure. Rashford has intensity but he always seems to need acres of space to do his thing. Martial has very little intensity in his game. And our state in the post-SAF era has made people overrate his actual abilities too. He loses the ball as much as Rashford, his movement leaves a lot to be desired and he goes awol for huge portions of the games. Add Lingard and Pereira in the mix and you'll see why James, who can keep the ball for three secs, looks like our best player in the attacking half.

And there's always the Pogba conundrum. Fantastic player but also a headache for any manager who wants to build a side from scratch. This is because he needs others to create space for him in the midfield. That's three of the players we heavily rely upon to get us through the season.

Ole will probably get the sack during the course if the season but this doesn't mean that he's doing nothing at Carington. We try to create 2v2 situations in the wide areas, we want our 10 to either play closer to the forward or create pockets of space for the wingers to get into (goals against the Saints and Wolves), we want Pogba to pick his moments and influence the game from a slightly deeper position. And we should have more points by now, so there's that. But i do believe that we are going to have more discussions about the likes of Lukaku and Sanchez or even Smalling simply because the manager and his staff have overrated the abilities of our squad.

It happened with LvG and Mourinho too. Two different philophies which exposed two great weaknesses. Our innability in congested spaces made LvG's football tumescent and the complete lack of tactical discipline in the defensive shape hurt Mourinho's plans. Unless we want to believe that these two don't know how to train players either.
Logged in just to say great comment throughout and especially so the outset.


There is no synergy between any of our players and what does this lead to? Safe side and back passes. There is zero guile around the box and this has been the case for years now. Each manager has failed in some way shape or form. But it only requires one or two key relationships to form to give a fighting chance. As sad as it may seem the best one we had was the teams' understanding with Fellaini's strengths and positioning.

The current squad is just not good enough to play whichever variant of 4231/433 we've played in the last 5 years. Playing with one striker has borne no fruit, whether that striker is Romelu 'can't control the ball' Lukaku, or Marcus 'slap it ahead of me or I'll slap it from a mile out' Rashford.

In my opinion we need to define our attacking transitions better, because we simply cannot leave it up to the players to create dynamically in game. Therefore I truly feel we need to revert to a two striker formation, Yorke/Cole esq. Allow the front two to actually build a relationship based on movement and creativity. How can one striker build a relationship with a hit and run winger/wing forward who more often than not gets crowded out and forced to turn back whilst the opposition regroups? One striker to receive the perfect cross from a wide player running at break neck pace.

The two striker setup allows us two options when needing to play through the lines if it's tight playing out from the back or in midfield. Once at their feet we can spread play to either side of the pitch, or to the strike partner. Chances for a through ball that create a shooting opportunity will be increased due to the structure. It is a simpler structure that requires less movement and transition overall, which at the moment suits our less than intelligent team.

The only question for me that remains is whether that formation is best facilitated by a 4 or 3/5 man defence. Given our uselessness in midfield and lack of natural wingers I would say the following would be our best approach.



Security at the back and possibilities for both counter attack and possession across the pitch.

Presence in the attacking third with Shaw on the ball looking like this, mirrored for an attack on the right side:

 
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tomaldinho1

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They'll probably say (with a straight face) that they've simply got better players than us.
That game was actually just a great all round example of how individual player quality is secondary to tactics and team work. 4th is still, somehow, up for grabs if we get our shit together.
 

TheRedDevil'sAdvocate

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Cheers. I agree with you and i have mentioned in other threads that the only possible way i can see Rashford and Martial playing together is in tactics with two forwards. Their natural game is getting to the end of moves and not to generate them and whenever they are asked to be at the heart of attacking moves, they usually struggle to cope. Mind you though that it's easier said than done. Ferguson had an eye for good and well-functioning partnerships upfront and he understood that he had to get them spot-on otherwise he would pay the consequences of the numerical disadvantage in the midfield. Cantona enjoyed "imperial freedoms" on the pitch because he could create chances and openings for any type of main forward. Cole and Yorke's understanding of each other's movement in between the lines was phenomenal. Fergie wouldn't even hesitate to spend years fighting with Rooney over the latter's position on the pitch because he believed that Rooney as a SS would suit his plans best. On the other hand, we won the title with RvN leading the line only when Scholes managed to play well in a more advanced role. Berbatov's nonchalant attitude on the pitch didn't exactly bring the desired outcome either.

The problem with all that is that a lot of responsibility will fall on Martial's shoulders and we might see him in the predicament Rashford finds himself atm. It's a role that demands alertness, good reading of the game and constant movement, not just flair and silky skills. And to be fair, Martial looks more like a Berbatov than a Rooney/Cole. Pogba playing in the hole is always a luring idea when you see his skills on the ball but with his lack of positional awareness, you always risk of making your tactics very rigid (less predictable thus creating the same problems). There's a logic behind Mourinho's then and Solskjaer's now utilization of Pogba.

Anyway, it's difficult to find the solution to this riddle simply because we always seem to assign key-roles to players with the hope that they will play the part and we insist on these players with the belief that they will somehow become the players we need. Good sides are always built around what the players are, not on some projection of the players we think they'll become in the near future or around the idea of the roles we envision them into. Klopp changed 9/11 of his starting lineup in the space of four years, Pep doesn't have time for players that don't suit his plans. People preach patience but Ferguson didn't build the 1992/93 title-winning side by giving second, third or fourth chances but by being ruthless. And when he sensed that several players had become complacent in 1995, he was ruthless once again. We and Arsenal are being left behind because our approach seems to be an exercise in futility more than anything else.

Your second image is what Solskjaer basically wants, give or take a few players' positions (swap Martial and Rashford, James where you put Fred but on the right side etc.). The idea is there but the execution is all wrong. IMO, the problem with the midfield is an inherent one and it hasn't so much to do with the formation. Pogba's erratic positioning (and the lack of serious defensive effort) creates the need for tactical discipline in the centre of the park. That's why we bought Matic. Solskjaer decided to use McT as a midfielder who will put pressure on the ball and help us regain possession higher on the pitch. He understood that this would bring Pogba playing as the deepest midfielder and that's why he spent every single penny he was afforded on fixing a back-four that could handle a lot of pressure. A lot of good faith was placed on Lingard/Mata and Rashford/Martial to retain possession in the attacking half and provide the midfield with some breathing space. As expected it didn't materialize because these front three aren't good at creating pockets of space and at securing possession. As a result, McT looks like a headless chicken (and now he rarely passes the ball forward), Rashford looks as hopeless as Januzaj did when Moyes was expecting him to play like Pele and Pogba has already started asking himself what the hell is he doing here. And because it's all started falling apart, Ole started using Pereira on the right with instructions to operate as a third midfielder in the defensive phase (the pressing can't work when you constantly lose the ball and you have to sprint all the time to get it back. This is what Klopp understood after his last season at BvB and what has turned him into a truly world-class manager) in order to create a semblance of compactness. That's also why we see more of Matic although Ole doesn't fancy him much. He is the only tactically disciplined midfielder we have. But that's one player who's clearly past it and one who's not a RW trying to fix our problems. Madness. And if we play Fred (and push Pogba in the #10 role), we'll still have to rely on Matic on screening the back-four because Fred is positionally all over the place too. On top of that, silly defensive mistakes cost us points despite of the fact that the back-four looks more solid.

I really hope that Ole sees something in training that we don't see on the pitch (for whatever reason) because it's very early in the season to be left devoid of good ideas.
 

Utdstar01

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The feck has happened? Looked like we had some sort of idea or system when Jose went and McKenna took training for a few sessions at the very beginning. High press. attacking, overlapping full backs. Bodies in the box. What are we actually doing in training now?
 

VP89

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One thing I can't wrap my head around is that when ole first joined United played free flowing attacking football, it was like watching united again. Now all of a sudden it feels like Jose is back in charge with zero attacking sense going on. What the hell happen to that attack? Yeah we conceded goals but at least we were fearless in risks
It wasn't. We had often had extended periods of less possession than the shitty sides we faced and didn't create that many good chances. We were just very clinical. It was never going to be sustainable.
 

utdalltheway

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The feck has happened? Looked like we had some sort of idea or system when Jose went and McKenna took training for a few sessions at the very beginning. High press. attacking, overlapping full backs. Bodies in the box. What are we actually doing in training now?
Keep aways, from the opponents 6 yard box?
 

Foxbatt

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What is this talk about pressing and all this nonsense? Look at our possession percentage. It's not the pressing and recovering the ball that's the issue. It's what to do with it once we have the ball.
Now I know that Ole is a fake. All his talk is about pressing.
 

Utdstar01

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There were so many things wrong with tonight's performance but one thing I want to highlight is the movement of our players when crosses come into the box.

The cross by Pereira just before City's 2nd goal, many strikers would be begging for a ball like that yet there was nobody busting a gut to meet it in the middle of the box or at the back post for what would've been a certain tap in. This has been happening time and time again all season. Where is the fecking coaching?! Do our staff even analyse things like this?

This is coaching at the very basic level. You're always taught as a player to make those runs to the back post so why aren't things like this being drilled into the team?!
 

Utdstar01

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Passing into blind alleys. I lost count of the number of times our centre backs ran about 5 yards then passed the ball about 1 yard into a midfielder that was already surrounded by city players. Absolute morons.
 

Hoof the ball

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Well, you're either a manager who has expertise at coaching tactical concepts with great detail, like Guardiola, Bielsa, and therefore can take on the burden of coaching yourself, or you're the the type of manager like Sir Alex, who was wise enough to hire specialists and delegate that responsibility to them, like Carlos Queiroz when he ran the coaching during Sir Alex's tenure in the 00's. The point being, whether you're the manager/coach, or manager who hires specialists, the important thing is to have people in the club who are at an elite level when it comes to coaching high-level tactical concepts.
 

Foxbatt

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Look at Rashford today after he scored the first goal. He got a chance to pass in their box, yet he tried to dribble his way past three City players and they crowded him out. We had players in the box and he refused to pass.
 

AshRK

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One thing our coaching staff surely are not coaching is how to make best use of set pieces. My god we are bad in that.
 

croadyman

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Our coaching staff badly needs revamping but I just don't think Ole has the guts to demand drastic changes. Like people have said the set pieces are shocking in both boxes. I also feel that Dan James overall game will improve with proper coaching too.
 

passing-wind

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Our coaching staff badly needs revamping but I just don't think Ole has the guts to demand drastic changes. Like people have said the set pieces are shocking in both boxes. I also feel that Dan James overall game will improve with proper coaching too.
If the coaching staff need revamping then the first person to be tossed should be Ole because it's his ideas that are needed to manifest on the pitch.

I'm genuinely not surprised at how bad the detail in our build up play is. Look at who is directing the players not Klopp / Guardiola but a failed Cardiff manager who also stunk the place out in the championship. Solskjaer (managerially) is a serial underachiever who is parading the fortunes of our club into a bottomless pit of mediocrity with him at the face of it all.

If you want good football you need a good manager to coach the team into success. We have a rancid manager therefore we produce rancid performances.
 

Dr Fink

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If someone was to ask the question: "what do you think is Manchester United's current biggest problem?", then the answer is the title of this thread. It's as simple as that. Ole: legend as a player, League One as a manager.
 
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Champ

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Look at Rashford today after he scored the first goal. He got a chance to pass in their box, yet he tried to dribble his way past three City players and they crowded him out. We had players in the box and he refused to pass.
That's not coaching, that's decision making, that comes with knowing the game.
Prime example of this is Welbeck, technically gifted but constant poor decision making.
Unfortunately this side of the game is difficult to teach, it comes with experience more than anything.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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Ole and our entire coaching staff should be binned.

They're all clueless.
 

Judas

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Our team lacks calm, there's such a desperation for players to score that they so often pick the wrong pass or don't pass at all. There's such an uneasy unsettled feel about how we play, especially when chasing a game. You can feel the panic with the way they play.
 

Traub

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That's not coaching, that's decision making, that comes with knowing the game.
Prime example of this is Welbeck, technically gifted but constant poor decision making.
Unfortunately this side of the game is difficult to teach, it comes with experience more than anything.
Agreed, but some players need this pointed out to them. For example, are Ole et al. going to pull up this passage of play and show Rashford that he should consider passing in the future? If not, then I don't expect Rashford to improve this aspect.
 

Andersonson

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Ole and our entire coaching staff should be binned.

They're all clueless.
Same goes for our fans... I've wouldve sold you to Liverpool, because you seem to RAWKish.

Our coaching staff is fine. Alot of great coaches, but great coaches cant make Jones , Pereira, Lingard, Shaw, Lindeløf, Fred etc into class players, because they dont have it in them.

The squad is simply not good enough. Jose couldnt do it either with his coaching staff and he had a better squad plus alot of his coaches are deemed top class coaches.

Atleast our coaches has made the players who actually got potensial better. Rashford, Scott, Greenwood, Williams.

How the feck is Ole and his staff expected by our fans to win matches and challenge for a top 4 when he's forced to play Jones, Lindelof, Shaw, Pereira, Matic , Lingard etc ?? They wouldnt even get into the Everton 11.

We got a team full of Morgan Schneiderlin's.
 

Classical Mechanic

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Same goes for our fans... I've wouldve sold you to Liverpool, because you seem to RAWKish.

Our coaching staff is fine. Alot of great coaches, but great coaches cant make Jones , Pereira, Lingard, Shaw, Lindeløf, Fred etc into class players, because they dont have it in them.
I don't think this is true at all. Look at how Leeds completely outplayed Arsenal the other night. Their squad is far weaker than our own.
 

Ikon

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great coaches cant make Jones , Pereira, Lingard, Shaw, Lindeløf, Fred etc into class players, because they dont have it in them.

The squad is simply not good enough. Jose couldnt do it either with his coaching staff and he had a better squad plus alot of his coaches are deemed top class coaches.
How the feck is Ole and his staff expected by our fans to win matches and challenge for a top 4 when he's forced to play Jones, Lindelof, Shaw, Pereira, Matic , Lingard etc ?? They wouldnt even get into the Everton 11.
I'm so much in agreement with this.
This squad has taken approaching a BILLION pounds to assemble since SAF left, yet the majority of these players would be struggling in the Championship.
 

Fluctuation0161

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Really poor coaching from Ole and his team. Some poor tactical decisions now are mounting up, including late subs and starting line ups.

Combined with poor recruitment from the board. I.e lack of sufficient player investment under Ole and in Jose's final window plus some poor signings since 2013 and a lack of managerial style continuity.

We really are fecked from top to bottom.
 

soapythecat

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We complained about a lack of coaching with LVG (we don’t know how to attack), we said ‘what does Jose do on the training ground’, we are saying the same thing under Ole.
I get Ole doesn’t have a top flight managerial record but we do have qualified coaches. They may not be the best but at what stage do we say the vast majority of our players are just average and are playing at their best?
Jones, Periera, Lingard, Matic, Mata and so on. Have any of them played much better over the last 6-7 years consistently? No.
We don’t need new coaches, we need a better type of player.
 

dev1l

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Didn't know there are so many coaching experts lurking over here:) it s really a wasteful
 

LARulz

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The fact we have no identity after over a year is pathetic. There seems to be 2 kinds of managers:

1. Managers who have a system and stick to it. When players come in, no matter who and what experience, they know their job. It's reasons like that why generally managers like Klopp can be handed a team and his style is evident easily. Conte, Guardiola, Sarri, Simone, Wenger

2. Managers who create a system based on what's suitable for the majority of players. They asses it game by game and look to exploit weakness' and maximise their teams talent. I think this is the SAF and Mourinho mould

Ole is neither. He has now evidently no clue what we are doing except passing it to James or Rashford/Martial and keeping our fingers crossed.
 

The Purley King

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We complained about a lack of coaching with LVG (we don’t know how to attack), we said ‘what does Jose do on the training ground’, we are saying the same thing under Ole.
I get Ole doesn’t have a top flight managerial record but we do have qualified coaches. They may not be the best but at what stage do we say the vast majority of our players are just average and are playing at their best?
Jones, Periera, Lingard, Matic, Mata and so on. Have any of them played much better over the last 6-7 years consistently? No.
We don’t need new coaches, we need a better type of player.
100% disagree with this.
Look at some of the teams in the Premier League who have far inferior players to us. Brighton and Norwich for example. When you watch them play, its clear there is a plan. When they attack, its coordinated, when they play out from the back, defenders have multiple options. When they press its either done as a team, or not at all.
With us, I see none of this. Numerous times we tried to play out from the back and when Jones had the ball, he had nobody to pass to. Was made all the more obvious by his silly arms in the air routine, but its symptomatic of a lack of coaching, a lack of a plan.
When we 'press' its 2 or 3 players that do it, then the ball goes between them they look up to see the rest of the team sitting by the half way line and its been a waste of time.
These are all things that can and should be coached. We exhibit 0 evidence of being coached properly at all.
These guys train for hours every day, what the feck are they doing? I spent 12 years playing semi professional football and we had hours and hours of drills on patterns of play. When the fullback has the ball, what run do I make, where should I be, who will be on the left of me that I can pass to when I get the ball. These are all drilled into you through endless repetition, so eventually you do it without thinking. We are a fecking shambles in comparison and the buck stops with Ole.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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100% disagree with this.
Look at some of the teams in the Premier League who have far inferior players to us. Brighton and Norwich for example. When you watch them play, its clear there is a plan. When they attack, its coordinated, when they play out from the back, defenders have multiple options. When they press its either done as a team, or not at all.
With us, I see none of this. Numerous times we tried to play out from the back and when Jones had the ball, he had nobody to pass to. Was made all the more obvious by his silly arms in the air routine, but its symptomatic of a lack of coaching, a lack of a plan.
When we 'press' its 2 or 3 players that do it, then the ball goes between them they look up to see the rest of the team sitting by the half way line and its been a waste of time.
These are all things that can and should be coached. We exhibit 0 evidence of being coached properly at all.
These guys train for hours every day, what the feck are they doing? I spent 12 years playing semi professional football and we had hours and hours of drills on patterns of play. When the fullback has the ball, what run do I make, where should I be, who will be on the left of me that I can pass to when I get the ball. These are all drilled into you through endless repetition, so eventually you do it without thinking. We are a fecking shambles in comparison and the buck stops with Ole.
Totally agree here. I think there is evidence for some coaching, but our pressing is very much individual. Also our movement in order open up space and time is very poor.
Many players also do not often know what to do since they don't know what others around them will do. Rashford the main culprit and it ends with him trying to beat 3 players or shoot from crazy angles more often than not.
 

Castia

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Phelan aside the lot of them including Ole just done have the experience. Ole, Carrick and McKenna? Jesus Christ.
 

arthurka

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The fact is there hasn't been any evidence of us building a system, pattern of play or any cohesion in that squad under Ole. Our defense is weak and prone to mistakes, with set piece defending being almost comical. Our attack isn't much any better at least when it comes to set pieces, no runs into the box, no passing patterns or running patterns it really has the look of a disjointed unit. We have good enough players to be playing much better than we are Ole's United Way Bla bla bla isnt helping him with systems and patterns at all.
 

KevinJoh

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I guess it would be nice to add a coach or two, especially coaches who can work on attacking patterns. But, I am not into that it is all up to coaching, and I think it is players that are weak in quality and mentality. Not all of them, it is a mix.

Why I think that? Check out playing style of Williams during games and Shaw and Young. All of them are different. When Williams is playing you can see he is running his brains out to give option to his teammates on the flanks, to overlap, to go behind players and take them to open space for wingers. When Shaw is playing you can't see that. When Young is playing it is happening once or twice in the game, but I guess it is more cause he can't track back. So, if it is coaching why Williams and Shaw don't have similar patterns? I think that Ole ask from them to make those runs, but Shaw just don't understand when to make a run and where to run, and he is just pretending to make those runs and stop as soon as possible. Also, maybe he is not fit enough so he knows that he would get injured if he makes those runs with full speed. I can't remember when I saw him running at full speed last time. Maybe it is injury concern in his head. On the other hand, Williams is running forward as soon as there is space in front and as soon as he pass the ball. My thought is that Ole wants that, what Williams is showing, and that only reason why he is not playing every game is that he is just a kid and he doesn't want to get him in trouble with injuries. He wants to keep him fit and to gain experience once a week.

Also, I think it is similar on the right. It looks to me that AWB is improving in that department and that is last few games against smaller teams he did better than before. Still, lot of space for improvement. Maybe, he is tired as well as he is playing almost every game and introduction of Laird or Dalot would help him to get some rest now and than.

Another issue is passing forward. When Matic is playing you will see he is waiting to execute pass between lines to number 10. He is doing that in every game a few times. Maguire and Lindelof are trying to do the same. The problem is that number 10 is more often than not hiding behind the players, so DM/CB can't execute that pass. They are afraid of interception, that with speed of our CB/DM partnership can lead to a goal conceded. So, they are executing those passes only when they are 90-100% sure that they will succeed which limits our chances. So, it is up to the players to open up for the pass, and to have pace to track back ad cover if something goes wrong. Also, coaching as players should move and open up better, but if they don't have it it is not like Ole has too many options.

Also, even when we make a space behind midfielders, and our Number 10 get the ball, our final pass is terrible. Decision making and executing are not on the PL level, and not on world class level. Whoever is playing it is the same. Mata is the only one that can deliver good ball, but he is slow to make that space and rarely is in position to do that. Pereira has bad decision making and vision, and Lingard doesn't have anything. Si, it is up to the players, although Ole could try Gomes there.

Also, forwards are issue. Movement in the box. It is not something you can learn easily, you need to have that in you, and Martial doesn't have that. He is more like second striker or winger, more like number 10. Also, passing, decision making in final third is something our players are not very good at. Maybe you can improve there a little bit with coaching, but to have it like Inzaghi or Chicharito, I doubt you can learn that.
 

Bobcat

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So do i. I understand his point.

But we're not talking about having a 3 lung like park. Many team press intelligently without having to sprint for 90 minutes. It's not about running, it's about intelligently and tactically closing the space.

Barcelona tiki taka is the best team in pressing I've ever witnessed, they never broke a sweat in sprinting (although tbf they run alot).

The op is saying we cant train to press for 90 minutes, yes if you say it's headless chicken running. But coordinated press with 10 mths conditioning? Our team is one of the youngest, stamina and running should be abundance.
All the good pressing teams have 2-3 CM's with a great engine and a deeper lying DM who is great at covering. The last one is particular is critical as without one you get very easily exposed if the other team bypasses your press and often then they can end up attacking your goal with a numbers advantage.

Fred and McTomminay tick the box for the engine part (although they are not as tactically astute and coordinated as they should be) but we lack a quality DM and have done for some time. There have been times where our press have worked well (Newcastle the most recent example), but against better ball playing teams we drop deeper because i think everyone knows we will get badly exposed if we try to press them high with both attack and MF
 

L1nk

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Dec 31, 2017
Messages
5,064
Watching the game last night it was easy to see a well drilled, well coached team, against a poorly coached, poorly drilled team. One simple thing showed me this, the movement.

Whenever City had the ball, say, a defender had the ball at the edge of their box, and they are playing out from the back, as soon as a central defender had that ball, a minimum of 2 City players would approach that player and present themselves as passing options, and this happened multiple times throughout the match, this is what allowed them to cut us open so easily in the first half.

Contrast that with us, a player gets the ball and there is virtually no movement, no players are presenting themselves for a pass, this is why we are constantly passing it from side to side or why we are always punting hopeful long balls. Sometimes you can actually see the palpable frustration some of the players when they realise there are virtually no options for them to pass infront of them, it's pathetic.
 

NinjaZombie

Punched the air when Liverpool beat City
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
10,119
This is my biggest problem with Ole and his coaches. There is no system. No patterns of play.

It's all well and good if you've got the best players in the league who will overpower teams based on individual ability. We don't even have that. In terms of squad ability and experience, we're probably top 7 at best.

We are not going to get top 4 at the rate we are going.