I’m planning on not watching in 2 weeks, haven’t missed a Liverpool game for about 30 years. Don’t think I can take them going 9 straight wins at the start of a season 18 straight in total toying with us while we can’t score a goal. Sad and desperate times.We really do, don't we?
Million dollar question shambles Part 999...emergency
- Thread starter Ranchero
- Start date
If a star player especially of this generation doesn’t respect the manager or doesn’t want to be here, then he’s going to likely be toxic in the dressing room. It’s the same in any line of work. If we had good players who are also great leaders and a respectable manager, then we wouldn’t be having these conversations about Pogba.
He’s really more of player that makes great teams better and not one who makes mediocre teams take it up a level.
You cannot know that for sure, I'm sorry everything Ole has said regarding Pogba alludes to the complete opposite. It's not the same in any line of work, this is pro football, we don't know how it is. We cannot make projections like that and besides wanting to leave and being a poison aren't necessarily linked anyway. Plenty of players have been wanting to leave their clubs over the years but not everyone gets to leave when they want, they just carry on themselves professionally until the opportunity to leave comes back. Pogba is appreciated by his current manager and his current teammates, that's not really how a poison should work.
He didn't get along with Jose Mourinho but sometimes it's just how it is, Mourinho hasn't gotten along with plenty of players during his career.
You really are strong, I try to avoid watching under Klopp as much as I can. I just cannot stomach him, his players , their football and their fans.
Ole’s word isn’t something to go by if you haven’t noticed lately. And just like you tell me I don’t know for sure, I can say the same to you about your assessment. And if I can’t allude to other lines of work, I can at least allude to other pro sports like NFL and NBA where this very thing happens all the time. And I highly doubt it’s different in football.
The culture in the dressing room takes many years to build and just a few moments to destroy. I love Pogba as a player for sure but after his flirting with Real in the summer, he should have been forced to leave the club. I would hate to work with some dude who thinks he's better than me even if it's true.
Even if Ole gets sacked and we get another class manager there isn’t going to be an instant revival. This job is going to take time to get right and I don’t think any manager is going to be given that time and so it’s a vicious circle. I’m prepared to give Ole more time simply because I think he had been a bit unlucky with injuries so far, plus his signings have been good signings. If he can get back to full strength and make a couple more signings things may well improve but I’ve already written off this and next season. It’s just the way it is.
Ole's word isn't something to go by but Jose's is ? The main difference between us is that I'm not accusing him of anything though. You have made your opinion based on next to nothing.
Jose actually says what’s on his mind which is well known already and it’s what also gets him in trouble. Ole is trying to say everything is fine yet DDG says otherwise. That’s the difference and you’re either burying your head or you’re just arguing for the sake of it.
Regarding Pogba, I’ve given plenty of context in which to base my opinion from and it’s consistent with what happens in pro sports. Just because you don’t agree with it doesn’t mean it’s baseless. So you can either debate in good faith or leave me the feck alone on this because it’s tiring having to correct this bullshit.
I'm not burying my head in the sand, the club is in huge trouble without a doubt. No argument there.
Regarding Pogba, there ain't much to say. You're clearly talking out of your ass and that's that. I will indeed leave you alone with your delusion and your made up fantasy about the evil monstrous man he really is. My bad for even engaging in this mad discussion.
The fact that you even inferred this based on my points shows you lack basic reading comprehension. Your bad indeed.
I wasn’t specifically bashing Pogba to bash him. I was simply responding to the above comment where to be honest, he was part of the problem getting us in this shambolic state. you really cannot say “you can’t blame him for having his head turned seeing the shambles we’re in” because he is part to blame. It is not all his fault but...
I was clearly taking the piss there....
I can say that and I did.
Yet you could have chosen not to and explain to me how you think Pogba is instead a positive influence in the dressing room as one of the team leaders and provide your reasons for it, but here we are.
I could have but I feel like it'd be pointless, it's not about either being a poison or being a positive influence. There are many other possibilities in between anway. All I know is that during his entire career, there have been a lot more people in direct contact with Pogba (coaches, teammates, staff members etc etc) praising him than considering him a nuisance. That's all I only know, more than that I won't speculate because I wouldn't know.
Which coaches and staff though? For Juve and France?
So why do you blame him for having his head turned?of course you can and did
Reminds me of that Simpsons episode where Bart had evil powers and everyone was exceptionally nice to him as a result.
that is a great question. Im having a hard time responding to your question. I guess I don’t blame him for having his head turned?
Edit: but i’m not ok with him having his head turned seeing the shambles we’re in because he’s part of what put us in this mess.
What do you think he did to contribute to putting us in this mess? I’d say it’s our mess that contributed to him wanting out and half assing it.
Absolutely. What baffles me is a behind the scenes respected BBC report from multiple staff members stress it was felt keeping strikers Romelu Lukaku and Alexis Sanchez would have been "counter-productive because the pair had made it known they no longer wished to be at the club".
And yet Pogba and his agent have been far more vocal about the Frenchman's desire to leave, openly courting Real.
Yet we are hellbent on keeping him.
That's not counterproductive? Having someone younger players look up to making it known they don't want to be at Old Trafford.
It's more than counterproductive. It is poisonous.
It is one thing to be planning an exit strategy another to make it known publicly and to your teammates who look up you. The man is poisonous.
What about the time the manager of our biggest rival came out and said that Pogba's agent had sounded them out about moving across the city to join them? Or when we're getting beat by a seconds rate team and Pogba films himself with other players laughing in the crowd. Just that second one alone, if that's what he does in public then imagine what he's like I'm general.
He might be a good player now and then, but he brings it all on himself and makes the rest of the stories completely believable.
Irrelevant of the mess we re in, no player should ever be allowed to "half ass it"
How people cannot comprehend the extreme insult to the club and fans that Pogba's attitude is. "He messed with the wrong baller". Fckin cnut
You would have hated most of the players in Fergies squad then. Players who wanted to win and play at the highest level and wouldn’t be sticking around at United finishing 6th
José Mourinho is the greatest manipulator football has ever seen. He says whatever he needs to say to further his agenda, always and at all times. If you believe otherwise, that means he's got you, hook, line and sinker
And it's interesting that Mourinho's problems with Pogba began after Pogba refused to play a game through injury in the fall of 2017
The one big difference was that they would raise their game every time they stepped out on the pitch. If Pogba decided to raise his game, he'd be the best midfielder in the world alongside De Bruyne.
He is the most talented player in our squad, but what he's shown for us isn't irreplaceable for the type of transfer fee he would generate.
So are you implying that whatever he said about United is a lie? Or was he telling his honest thoughts but did so to influence the media? We were a poor squad and still are. He wasn’t backed (to his standards) in the market. And whether or not you think Pogba was a virus, Jose said about him (indirectly) whatever he thought about him.
I believe the best way to read José Mourinho's words is to assume he's working some angle and so the best thing to do is to either try and see what his angle could be or ignore them outright
Ultimately, José had no problem with Pogba until he decided he didn't like him afterall. Then he suddenly became a problem
Every United match I watch, with a decent centre forward Pogba would have one, maybe two assists.