It's not really based on the Killing Joke, has a couple of superficial similarities but not much.
Film Joker (2019)
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
PC gone mad
Ok every stand up comedian in 2019
Just seen it and thought it was terrific. Joaquin Phoenix was absolutely tremendous and certainly Oscar worthy.
Nowhere near as good as initial reviews or some are making out in this thread.
But not truly awful. They tried to tell a story and they did that. It's a good film but personally I think the pacing is off for a joker film.
Joker is unpredictable,you don't know what he's gonna do next. It should be constantly tense and it's one of the reasons the dark Knight is fantastic.
This however is very slow. Nothing really surprises you, nothing really shocks you. You get into why he is the way he is, which is interesting, but predictable. Could be done better. I've seen this plot before but this time it's the joker.
Think phoenix did a fantastic job playing this character, but there's something not quite there for me. Nothing do with his performance, just this particular joker.
Did not like this Thomas Wayne at all. And didn't particularly care for how they show horned in the ally scene. Or any of that random anarchy stuff.
A good film in its own right, 7/10. A good performance, but leaves a lot to be desired. Probably not the films fault, but I was expecting something groundbreaking and breathtaking.
It's neither of those.
Not all bad though. Liked the Murray Franklin scene. Liked what they did with the neighbor. Liked what they did with his mum but wished they delved into that a bit further.
But not truly awful. They tried to tell a story and they did that. It's a good film but personally I think the pacing is off for a joker film.
Joker is unpredictable,you don't know what he's gonna do next. It should be constantly tense and it's one of the reasons the dark Knight is fantastic.
This however is very slow. Nothing really surprises you, nothing really shocks you. You get into why he is the way he is, which is interesting, but predictable. Could be done better. I've seen this plot before but this time it's the joker.
Think phoenix did a fantastic job playing this character, but there's something not quite there for me. Nothing do with his performance, just this particular joker.
Did not like this Thomas Wayne at all. And didn't particularly care for how they show horned in the ally scene. Or any of that random anarchy stuff.
A good film in its own right, 7/10. A good performance, but leaves a lot to be desired. Probably not the films fault, but I was expecting something groundbreaking and breathtaking.
It's neither of those.
Not all bad though. Liked the Murray Franklin scene. Liked what they did with the neighbor. Liked what they did with his mum but wished they delved into that a bit further.
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Oh Nolans Batman films are more impressive as a cinematic achievement because he finally solved the puzzle of how do get people to take seriously the man in the bat costume(Plus Nolan is just technically a better film maker)but as a great philosopher once said - That don't impress me much. Out of sheer luck(As you said Phillips completely uninterested in the themes)the Joker movie is far interesting for me anyway.
Part of the love in for this movie comes from the same place as Leonardo DiCaprio is the greatest actor ever or Robert Pattson can't play batman. Scorsese is right , there's a ton of people who only consume nerd culture so it's superhero movies all the way down. So when one pops up that is somewhat like a actual movie(Even though its basically Taxi Driver)they go nuts and the film becomes a true masterpiece but the same was for the DK(If the DK is someone favourite film it just means they have yet to Heat)and really any type of media in fairness. Because we live in a hell world.
Yeah wouldn't disagree with you here.
DC gone mad.
Bravo
I haven't seen it and I'm not going to watch it because it's crap.
Went to see this last night and was blown away, without spoiling the movie the character development in this movie is up there with the greatest I've ever seen. Pheonix was simply superb in the role and I couldn't think of a better person to show the progression from local loser to confident psycho killer than this man.
10/10 for me, had me stuck to the screen the whole way through.
10/10 for me, had me stuck to the screen the whole way through.
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
Just want to add the the film score and cinematography were perfection.
That’s the spirit!
Just an explainer video about some theories/what the director has said. To be honest, it's actually pissed me off. When a director says after that he wanted the film to make people make up their own mind and we'll say what we wanted later feels like a cop out. You wrote it for feck sake, stop pandering and be afraid to piss people off
Did you read the plot summary? I've heard it reads rubbish.
It's not a superhero or supervillain movie.
It's a drama about mentally disturbed individiduals. For that it does the job brilliantly.
For a superhero movie... meh
It's a drama about mentally disturbed individiduals. For that it does the job brilliantly.
For a superhero movie... meh
I get that it's not a film for everyone, but I'm hearing some bizarre reviews about this film... one guy on a podcast I was listening too was basically complaining it's not a film about anything... and i'm thinking, feck me, this film (as people were saying on the other page) literally goes out of its way to tell you EXACTLY what it's about. Like its hardly ambiguous or anything.
Also on another podcast, the reviewer said that before they saw the movie, they thought they wouldn't like it and would have a problem with its subjects... and then came out of the movie with those thoughts reinforced... which makes me wonder then if that review of the movie is then a bit invalid?
Also on another podcast, the reviewer said that before they saw the movie, they thought they wouldn't like it and would have a problem with its subjects... and then came out of the movie with those thoughts reinforced... which makes me wonder then if that review of the movie is then a bit invalid?
Saw it yesterday and here are my thoughts -
cinematography is beautiful. Shot on the Alexa 65 and I appreciate the wide aperture shots. Great lighting too.
Score was fantastic. Very foreboding and atmospheric. I especially loved how when a certain other character was introduced, the same moody undertones changed ever so slightly to add an element of triumph and hopefulness. The best scores are the ones you hardly notice whilst watching the movie and then at the end your ears finally tell your brain “oh that was a pleasant experience” haha.
Phoenix was incredible. An amazing, nuanced, performance that will rightly receive some Oscar buzz. The way he transformed both physically and mentally for the role was masterful. When he was on screen, all eyes were on him.
The weakest element for me was the plot. Whilst it certainly wasn’t bad, enough wasn’t done during the transition stages between Arthur and Joker. I wanted to really feel the relief when he let himself truly be himself through some tangible plot points rather than just rely on Phoenix’s visual and verbal cues to tell me that was happening. I also felt when we were firmly in Joker territory that he needed to be even more brutal. Whilst the movie was unsettling throughout, I felt they pulled their punches slightly and as uncomfortable as it would have been to watch, they should have gone all in.
Overall though, it’s very solid. I liked that I came out of the movie thoughtful at how despite being set in the late 70’s-early 80’s, it very much dealt with themes that are VERY topical in our current climate, how worried I am for people that may find themselves in similar situations (including some I have seen first hand in every day life- I think we all have) and how remarkable it was that after a film so bleak, I just wanted to give someone a hug.
highly recommended
cinematography is beautiful. Shot on the Alexa 65 and I appreciate the wide aperture shots. Great lighting too.
Score was fantastic. Very foreboding and atmospheric. I especially loved how when a certain other character was introduced, the same moody undertones changed ever so slightly to add an element of triumph and hopefulness. The best scores are the ones you hardly notice whilst watching the movie and then at the end your ears finally tell your brain “oh that was a pleasant experience” haha.
Phoenix was incredible. An amazing, nuanced, performance that will rightly receive some Oscar buzz. The way he transformed both physically and mentally for the role was masterful. When he was on screen, all eyes were on him.
The weakest element for me was the plot. Whilst it certainly wasn’t bad, enough wasn’t done during the transition stages between Arthur and Joker. I wanted to really feel the relief when he let himself truly be himself through some tangible plot points rather than just rely on Phoenix’s visual and verbal cues to tell me that was happening. I also felt when we were firmly in Joker territory that he needed to be even more brutal. Whilst the movie was unsettling throughout, I felt they pulled their punches slightly and as uncomfortable as it would have been to watch, they should have gone all in.
Overall though, it’s very solid. I liked that I came out of the movie thoughtful at how despite being set in the late 70’s-early 80’s, it very much dealt with themes that are VERY topical in our current climate, how worried I am for people that may find themselves in similar situations (including some I have seen first hand in every day life- I think we all have) and how remarkable it was that after a film so bleak, I just wanted to give someone a hug.
highly recommended
So is this the best acting you've seen in the last 10 years? It is for me. Saw it a second time. It was even more sadder then the first. And more brilliant watching him walk up those steps in utter defeat only by the end he comes down in the best joker outfit I've ever seen so far and starts dancing. (Damn good dancer too). What a performance.
I was trying to figure out which scenes were real and which were not. Obviously the scenes with the girl were fake except the first one. I'm guessing the part where he's watching the comedy stand up by some guy is also fake. Probably killed the girl too judging by the sirens shortly after.
I'm angling to go see it again hah.
I was trying to figure out which scenes were real and which were not. Obviously the scenes with the girl were fake except the first one. I'm guessing the part where he's watching the comedy stand up by some guy is also fake. Probably killed the girl too judging by the sirens shortly after.
I'm angling to go see it again hah.
I really enjoyed this but didn't care much for the last scene... felt like the credits should have rolled right after he gets up on the car. But hey a solid 8/10 I reckon.
It's one of the better acting peformances I've seen in awhile. But it's nowhere near Cranston in Breaking Bad which is the pinnacle for me. And as a Joker Ledger was superior for me. But yeah, one of the best of the last 3-4 years for sure.
I dunno... doesn't hold a candle to Affleck's "WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME" though does it?
Never watched a film in cinema twice before but I'm wanting to go see it again, the time flew by when I watched it and also want to see if I can spot what's real and what's not.
I loved the film and i'm still thinking about it 48 hours later but I can perhaps understand that perspective but I also feel it's missing the point. I left feeling that it was a great movie but that there was something missing from it, that it didn't 'commit' to anything, and that it just stopped short of being truly uncomfortable or 'dangerous'. Then I started to think that maybe that's the point. It's a nihilistic film about the Joker's origins. It touches on themes and certain political viewpoints (people suffering on account of government cuts to health) but it doesn't allow it to become the main focus of the film.
Yeah Bryan Cranston was amazing in BB. I reckon Joaquin acted better but ledger is more memorable and you know every line in every scene he's in. Joaquin is definitely getting that oscar.
Saw it last night and really enjoyed it. It wears it's Scorsese influence with no shame and Phoenix is a mesmerising presence.
Reading this thread I hadn't really considered that he was imagining everything else other than the relationship with his neighbour and tbh I don't like that theory so I think I'll choose to disregard it.
I know it won't happen but I did wonder at the end what this Joker would look like in a Batman movie. It's oddly something that I'd both like to see and something that should never be seen in equal measures, not helped by that awful Harley Quinn trailer that proceeded this.
Reading this thread I hadn't really considered that he was imagining everything else other than the relationship with his neighbour and tbh I don't like that theory so I think I'll choose to disregard it.
I know it won't happen but I did wonder at the end what this Joker would look like in a Batman movie. It's oddly something that I'd both like to see and something that should never be seen in equal measures, not helped by that awful Harley Quinn trailer that proceeded this.
Oh best bit was young master Wayne sliding down his garden bat-pole. I see what you did there. 
I mean I enjoyed it and thought Phoenix was great but just this year, Edgerton in Rocketman, Masahiro Higashide in Asako, Nyong'o in Us, the 3 leads in Burning or Mads Mikkelsen in Arctic were all very good too (and there's loads of films I haven't yet seen). So past 10 years is a bit of an exaggeration...
Best acting in the last 10 years is just pure hyperbole. It's a gift of a role designed to show off acting.
I think the weight loss was more impressive. He went from a right unit in 'You Were Never Really Here' to a stick man in this. Can't be good for your body.
I think the weight loss was more impressive. He went from a right unit in 'You Were Never Really Here' to a stick man in this. Can't be good for your body.
Very Christian Baley indeed
I think that last scene was very necessary. Reason being, the last couple scenes tended towards just about crossing the border into painting him as an anti hero, a symbol of something for the downtrodden people of Gotham to look up to, which was epitomized in that scene with him on top of the car.
The last scene was necessary to remind everyone that Joker isn’t some inspirational figure for the oppressed, as the oppressed themselves are trying to make him out to be, but just a bad, dangerous, insane person.
I wouldn't call anything "Best" , but my favourite acting performance of the last 10 years is Gyllenhaal in Nightcrawler
I like the way you phased it
But yeah it's up to you decide what you believe was real or not. There are some scenes that require a very large leap of faith to believe they are not at least partially fantasy. Like the one below...
It's also necessary to showcase how much of this might just be in his head.
First it makes you wonder how he went from dancing in the middle of a cheering, adoring mob to being in a mental hospital.
Then we're asked to believe that this guy, a homicidal psychotic patient in a secure mental hospital, was presumably in an unsupervised meeting with his female therapist. Who he bludgeoned so much that his feet were soaked in blood. But his pristinely white uniform didn't have a drop of blood on it. And then he got chased back and forth along the same corridor without his scrawny arse being tackled.
He's very very clearly having delusions and these scenes are there to emphasise the surrealism of it all.
Then we're asked to believe that this guy, a homicidal psychotic patient in a secure mental hospital, was presumably in an unsupervised meeting with his female therapist. Who he bludgeoned so much that his feet were soaked in blood. But his pristinely white uniform didn't have a drop of blood on it. And then he got chased back and forth along the same corridor without his scrawny arse being tackled.
He's very very clearly having delusions and these scenes are there to emphasise the surrealism of it all.
That's how I felt about the ending of Taxi Driver, ironically - I wasn't sure if it was just Bickle's fantasy.
Anyone think it would have been a better film/concept if it was to turn out that Phoenix’s character is just your average Joe mental patient who thinks he’s the joker and these are his delusions based on what he has read of the character?
Personally to me this isn’t a joker movie and comes across more like them cashing in on the name instead of doing something that could have been really interesting. It might explain some of the ham fisted treatment Thomas Wayne got and why they decided to include I suppose a somewhat iconic moment in the Batman law with the pearls which really made no sense in the film other than a vanity moment by Phillips.
Personally to me this isn’t a joker movie and comes across more like them cashing in on the name instead of doing something that could have been really interesting. It might explain some of the ham fisted treatment Thomas Wayne got and why they decided to include I suppose a somewhat iconic moment in the Batman law with the pearls which really made no sense in the film other than a vanity moment by Phillips.
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Aaaaand breathe.
I saw this last night and I honestly don't understand the criticism. Thought it was brilliant. Was really buried in it. Sure it's not a film with a lot of the "Joker" as we conventionally know him. But that was clear from the trailers and press I thought so I had no issue with that at all. I didn't think any of the Batman universe was forced either, which it certainly has the potential to. Thought they handled all that brilliantly.
Also anyone who was worried about this celebrating incels either doesn't know what an incel is, or completely missed the point of the film.
Also anyone who was worried about this celebrating incels either doesn't know what an incel is, or completely missed the point of the film.
Yup, the last line sums it up pretty well.
Completely. I don't remember who posted it, but there was an article that underlined some journalists probably used that word as it's a flavor of the year kind of thing without really understanding what the term means.
Seeing it tonight. Both the positive and negative reviews have me excited. Though I suppose the chances of my son becoming an unhinged serial killer will dramatically increase by exposing his dead to this movie.