The Oasis Draft SF: Physio/Synco vs Skizzo/Gio

It's amazing that Dzodshuashvili gets used often to bust Dzajic and Best but doesn't feature in anyone's top 20 RB's of all time except 1

I think if Dzodz would have faced United's Best rather than Ireland's, he would have struggled.

Sure Best was among the best in the world at that point, but in more or less a one man team, it easier to man mark and overload the GOAT and reduce his influence as much as possible.

Sadly the Northern Ireland USSR games are not available.

I did watch his game against Dzajic long long ago and it was the same. Track and overload the best player all over the pitch. Dzajic still managed to score in 1 out of the 2 games from what I remember.

GodShaveTheQueen said:

It's amazing that Dzodshuashvili gets used often to bust Dzajic and Best but doesn't feature in anyone's top 20 RB's of all time except 1

I think if Dzodz would have faced United's Best rather than Ireland's, he would have struggled.

Sure Best was among the best in the world at that point, but in more or less a one man team, it easier to man mark and overload the GOAT and reduce his influence as much as possible.

Sadly the Northern Ireland USSR games are not available.

I did watch his game against Dzajic long long ago and it was the same. Track and overload the best player all over the pitch. Dzajic still managed to score in 1 out of the 2 games from what I remember.

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It would have been easy to keep Dzodzuashvili on the bench. He's certainly not on the park to win any sexy names contest. It would have pulled more scan voter appeal to have used Lizarazu and Brehme as full-backs, or Brehme and McGrath. But Dzodzuashvili was the right choice, not the sexiest name, but the best man to tame Best, as he did so effectively twice in 1969. And yes Best has better team-mates here. And well Dzodzuashvili has Gaetano Scirea inside him, the GOAT Italian Libero, and Paul Breitner and Luis Figo in front of him. He's got a hell of a platform too.

Also if we discount injury plagued seasons for Gullit, let’s do the same for Van Basten and look at his actual peak numbers

Minus Van Basten's injury-hampered season in 90/91.

This is Van Basten's goal-per-game ratio for his 3 best seasons at Milan:

107 games, 82 goals = 0.77 goals per game

And at Ajax:

104 games, 109 goals = 1.05 goals per game

Skizzo said:

But Dzodzuashvili was the right choice, not the sexiest name, but the best man to tame Best, as he did so effectively twice in 1969.

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Let me share George Best and Northern Ireland record in 1969 and 1970

Played - 8 games
Games won - 0
Games lost - 5
Games drawn - 3
Goals scored - 3 (yea they lost more games than goals scored)

Taking that team to justify Dzodz being the best man to tame George is fairly (add rude GSTQ phrase) in my eyes.

You could take any right back from the rest of the 8 games and make that argument. Only difference being we wouldn't have some fairy tale back story of how the said right back prepared for 6 months to tame Best.

GodShaveTheQueen said:

Let me share George Best and Northern Ireland record in 1969 and 1970

Played - 8 games
Games won - 0
Games lost - 5
Games drawn - 3
Goals scored - 3 (yea they lost more games than goals scored)

Taking that team to justify Dzodz being the best man to tame George is fairly (add rude GSTQ phrase) in my eyes.

You could take any right back from the rest of the 8 games and make that argument. Only difference being we wouldn't have some fairy tale back story of how the said right back prepared for 6 months to tame Best.

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It’s also a better standard to compare his ability to do so, than what was lauded as Cole’s job on Figo earlier that went unchecked.

Skizzo said:

It’s also a better standard to compare his ability to do so, than what was lauded as Cole’s job on Figo earlier that went unchecked.

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I have ridiculed the Cole-Figo argument in the past and couldn't be arsed to repeat it again.

I think that is a stalemate. I of course rate Cole very highly. And Figo of course is love.

GodShaveTheQueen said:

Let me share George Best and Northern Ireland record in 1969 and 1970

Played - 8 games
Games won - 0
Games lost - 5
Games drawn - 3
Goals scored - 3 (yea they lost more games than goals scored)

Taking that team to justify Dzodz being the best man to tame George is fairly (add rude GSTQ phrase) in my eyes.

You could take any right back from the rest of the 8 games and make that argument. Only difference being we wouldn't have some fairy tale back story of how the said right back prepared for 6 months to tame Best.

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Those games were against World Champions England twice, the best Scotland team of all time (twice), the WC Quarter Finalists Soviet Union (twice), Wales (twice) and Spain. It's a little disingenuous to pick only those games out when Gio shared earlier a longer run of 20 games as well as their full 1970 World Cup qualifying campaign to give a fuller flavour of their standing in the international game at the time.

GodShaveTheQueen said:

I have ridiculed the Cole-Figo argument in the past and couldn't be arsed to repeat it again.

I think that is a stalemate. I of course rate Cole very highly. And Figo of course is love.

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I’ve used Cole many times and rate him highly, but I welcome you repeating any ridiculed posts you’ve made before

GodShaveTheQueen said:

Let me share George Best and Northern Ireland record in 1969 and 1970

Played - 8 games
Games won - 0
Games lost - 5
Games drawn - 3
Goals scored - 3 (yea they lost more games than goals scored)

Taking that team to justify Dzodz being the best man to tame George is fairly (add rude GSTQ phrase) in my eyes.

You could take any right back from the rest of the 8 games and make that argument. Only difference being we wouldn't have some back story of how the said right back prepared for 6 months to tame Best.

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Whether you think Dzodzuashvili is up to the task is your call. All we know is that he played brilliantly against Best and Dzajic on multiple occasions, arguably the two best left wingers of all time. Once when I played against a draft team sporting him, I fervently scrutinised his performances from other full international games, but couldn’t dig any dirt because the man was just defensively so immaculate and dedicated in his style.

Not that I reckon he’s the perfect defender. We didn’t rate his abilities to stop Cristiano in the last round, lacking the necessary height and presence. But any squad worth it’s salt has different tools in the box for the job in hand and his low centre of gravity and proven track record against world class dribblers makes him a good choice here imo.

Okay Skizzo I'll play along for one more post before I head out.

Skizzo said:

the best man to tame Best, as he did so effectively twice in 1969.

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USSR did play Northern Ireland twice but Best started only 1 game. So that is incorrect.

Skizzo said:

a longer run of 20 games

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Before the USSR games, Best played 6 games from 1966 to 1969. 20 games is ancient history there and irrelevant.

Gio said:

In the 20 matches Northern Ireland played before that double-header with the Soviet Union, they never conceded more than two goals in a game

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They conceded 3 goals just a few months before the USSR games. So that is incorrect as well.

https://www.11v11.com/matches/northern-ireland-v-england-03-may-1969-230591/

Gio said:

And they were only two points behind the Soviet Union in qualifying for the World Cup in Mexico (a side who they also defeated 4-1 during that period)

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It was a group with 3 teams and they finished 2nd. So saying they were only 2 points behind is funny since all they managed to do is to beat the 3rd team a shitty Turkey twice.

Gio said:

All we know is that he played brilliantly against Best and Dzajic on multiple occasions, arguably the two best left wingers of all time.

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And yet failed to make an appearance in your all time 20 greatest RB's of all time? How many rightbacks in history can boast of playing brilliantly against arguably 2 of the 3 greatest left wingers of all time on multiple occasions?

Slowly dawning on me that I have been a cnut to all 4 managers. I'll show myself out and vote tomorrow

GodShaveTheQueen said:

Slowly dawning on me that I have been a cnut to all 4 managers. I'll show myself out and vote tomorrow

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Equal cnutage for all!

GodShaveTheQueen said:

Slowly dawning on me that I have been a cnut to all 4 managers.

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Ah, not at all - I'm unable to add more due to posting restrictions, but you sure did some really good work for the discussion in here. Gonna reply after the game has ended.

Time to vote.

I love both the front 6. Both are beautiful.

At first sight Skizzo/Gio defense looks slightly better personnel wise to me but Scirea might not enjoy playing against Riva's physicality and well then there is Revaz. Looks fairly even there as well.

Buffon vs Pfaff steals my vote.

Skizzo said:

Also if we discount injury plagued seasons for Gullit, let’s do the same for Van Basten and look at his actual peak numbers

Minus Van Basten's injury-hampered season in 90/91.

This is Van Basten's goal-per-game ratio for his 3 best seasons at Milan:

107 games, 82 goals = 0.77 goals per game

And at Ajax:

104 games, 109 goals = 1.05 goals per game

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The reason I missed out Gullit for the 89/90 season was that he played 2 games. In 90/91 MVB played 26 games. Apples and oranges.

If you just take league goals which by far the easiest to compare in his best three seasons he scores 63 goals in 95 games which is 0.66 goals a game. Ajax is pre-peak and in a much easier league. If I included Gullit's goals for PSV they would be much higher.

I'm not trying to diminish MVB at all, I rate him as the greatest striker of all-time it's just our CB pairing is a very good fit for him and you lack goals around the park relative to us.

Just if anyone thought Hamrin was just a goalscorer see this:

Crosses at 0:33 (blocked), 1:39

2:42 (failed) attempt on cutback pass in the box

Again, mainly a scoring forward, but still versatility in his moves.

@Skizzo @Gio Good game.

Well played both - tough, tough game.

Congrats @Skizzo @Gio

Was fun to play against your excellent team, and I'm glad we could make it a contest. Contrary to your assumption in the OP, this lineup was our plan A all along. We just needed to react to a superior midfield in the quarters, so Hamrin had to wait. I'm glad we got the chance to play the team as we wanted it, thanks to Voronin.

Looking forward to the last two matches of this draft, good luck for the final.

Good game @Physiocrat @Synco

Wasn’t looking forward to facing up to some of my favourites. Well argued points too as always