China bullies Hong Kong

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HK withdraws extradition bill. Incredible really Beijing has bowed.
Unlike 1989, sending the army was never an option. Would have done more damage than the protests.
They haven't bowed though. The protests now have 5 goals / demands (extradition bill withdrawal and the resignation of Lam, release of the arrested, removing the "riot" connotation from the protests, independent enquiries into police torture, and universal suffrage to the legislative committee) not just the withdrawal of the bill.

This is just a way to stymie the protests and say "see we met their demands yet they are violent and unreasonable and this is backed by USA & UK and they still violently protest" , and I expect there will be factions within the protesters now and the movement will break and eventually fizzle out

The bigger and key demands of universal suffrage and independent enquiry into police hostilities won't be met.
 

11101

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HK withdraws extradition bill. Incredible really Beijing has bowed.
Unlike 1989, sending the army was never an option. Would have done more damage than the protests.
They've only given the impression of doing so. They will bring it back soon enough in some other guise, and if they really want somebody they'll snatch them off the street like they have been doing for years.

This move just lets them say they've compromised on an issue next time they crack down.
 

Foxbatt

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Yes there are videos of it. Looks the Police had no choice.
 

Cal?

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Yes there are videos of it. Looks the Police had no choice.
You really are a CCP muppet aren’t you?
The popo in question was holding a beanbag rival with his other hand, but apparently he didn’t have a choice?

Also, did you see the part pre-shooting where he had his gun out, ran directly towards the protestors and wanted to execute him?
 

Foxbatt

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I have been to HK during the riots. These are not protesters. If this had happened in the USA these riots have been all over by now. How many riots have you seen? I am amazed that there have no deaths.
 
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Foxbatt

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why does anyone have to read the NYtimes to analyse it when you can see the video yourself. The Chinese government could be a nasty bunch if they want to but the fact the rioters can riot and destroy everyone's life in HK shows that they have too much freedom.
 

Foxbatt

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Well if the police can't handle it without having to shoot people perhaps it's time HK asked for China's help and let the army deal with it
I do not think that is the answer either. The army is geared for war and they would just shoot everyone in sight and that would be a massacre.
The fact that the Police have not shot anyone before says a lot about the HK Police. It is very well for people to pontificate about this and that without ever having experienced these kind of rioting and Police response(I am not pointing at you). I have seen this many times and frankly I am amazed how restraint the HK Police have been. If this had happened in any other country including the USA this would have been all over by now. Obviously this will never happen in China either as they would have shot everyone too just like in the USA.
 

sun_tzu

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I think yeah in many many countries they shoot the guy...
A lone office is down being attacked with a hammer and other weapons... More officers arrive and somebody attacks them... Bang... Frankly if your not going to shoot in that situation there is no point in having a gun
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/new...hooting-protester-live-round-officer-11961830
looking at some of that footage and having spent time in the USA I'm pretty sure lethal force would have been employed a lot more had similar protests happened over there
 
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Cheesy

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I do not think that is the answer either. The army is geared for war and they would just shoot everyone in sight and that would be a massacre.
The fact that the Police have not shot anyone before says a lot about the HK Police. It is very well for people to pontificate about this and that without ever having experienced these kind of rioting and Police response(I am not pointing at you). I have seen this many times and frankly I am amazed how restraint the HK Police have been. If this had happened in any other country including the USA this would have been all over by now. Obviously this will never happen in China either as they would have shot everyone too just like in the USA.
It says that they know how unpopular they are and that extreme measures will only eradicate whatever unpopularity they have even further.
 

Foxbatt

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They are extremely unpopular of course. This is not new to Hong Kong alone. Police are extremely unpopular everywhere.
But that said the point I am making is that HK police compared to other countries have been extremely restraint.
If anyone tried what is going on in HK in any other country including the USA they would have been shot at long time ago. Look at the Rodney King riots in the USA. Over two hundred dead. Look at China too. Hundreds dead. Look at what happened in Bahrain and places in the middle East. Hundreds shot dead by their armies.
Protesting and rioting are two different things. Honestly mainland China has not got itself involved so far but I feel that HK LegCo is going to declare an emergency soon and that will be the end of HK as we know it. It will end in the destruction of HK.
 

maniak

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These protestors are heroes. People living in free countries supporting the CCP should have their heads checked. Or maybe they could go to China and post a video on social media saying they don't like Xi, then they'd just disappear and we wouldn't have to listen to their bs ever again.
 

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As much as I support protesters an riots to fight for your rights, I completely understand that the police shot. They just ambushed the policeman
 

Cal?

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I have been to HK during the riots. These are not protesters. If this had happened in the USA these riots have been all over by now. How many riots have you seen? I am amazed that there have no deaths.
Another quote straight out of the pro-CCP camp, conveniently ignoring the fact that many US protestors have guns.

How many popo in HK even suffered any injury of note?
why does anyone have to read the NYtimes to analyse it when you can see the video yourself. The Chinese government could be a nasty bunch if they want to but the fact the rioters can riot and destroy everyone's life in HK shows that they have too much freedom.
Who said they've destroyed "everyone's life"?

I do not think that is the answer either. The army is geared for war and they would just shoot everyone in sight and that would be a massacre.
The fact that the Police have not shot anyone before says a lot about the HK Police. It is very well for people to pontificate about this and that without ever having experienced these kind of rioting and Police response(I am not pointing at you). I have seen this many times and frankly I am amazed how restraint the HK Police have been. If this had happened in any other country including the USA this would have been all over by now. Obviously this will never happen in China either as they would have shot everyone too just like in the USA.
Restraint? :lol:

The HK popo have brutally beat random passers by for nothing other than insulting them.

These protestors are heroes. People living in free countries supporting the CCP should have their heads checked. Or maybe they could go to China and post a video on social media saying they don't like Xi, then they'd just disappear and we wouldn't have to listen to their bs ever again.
Well said
 

Cal?

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They are extremely unpopular of course. This is not new to Hong Kong alone. Police are extremely unpopular everywhere.
But that said the point I am making is that HK police compared to other countries have been extremely restraint.
If anyone tried what is going on in HK in any other country including the USA they would have been shot at long time ago. Look at the Rodney King riots in the USA. Over two hundred dead. Look at China too. Hundreds dead. Look at what happened in Bahrain and places in the middle East. Hundreds shot dead by their armies.
Protesting and rioting are two different things. Honestly mainland China has not got itself involved so far but I feel that HK LegCo is going to declare an emergency soon and that will be the end of HK as we know it. It will end in the destruction of HK.
Right, let's just use the country with the highest number of guns in the world or some totalitarian regime as examples. :houllier:

They won't declare an emergency, the CCP have too much to lose if the US reviews the HK Act.
 

The Firestarter

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Isn't China overdue for another Tiananmen Square?

Half the people there are ignorant of the original one, so this one will at least be one they can experience through CCTV
I hope this last remark wasn't meant to be humourous. To me, as a citizen of a former communist regime such a possibility as well as the origianal events that transpired in the 80s, sound terrifying.
 

VidaRed

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Might is right has always been the way. Everything else is just noise meant to confuse people.
 

Foxbatt

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Another quote straight out of the pro-CCP camp, conveniently ignoring the fact that many US protestors have guns.

How many popo in HK even suffered any injury of note?

Who said they've destroyed "everyone's life"?


Restraint? :lol:

The HK popo have brutally beat random passers by for nothing other than insulting them.


Well said
What heroes? They have different laws to China. HK is not mainland China as per the laws are . concerned. It is called one country two system. The judges are independent and though the CE has to be ratified by the Mainland government the CE is also elected by the HK people. HK is part of China. It will always be no matter what some people in the west scream about it. This is the reality of this world.
The HK police have been restraint. I have seen many riots in many countries and you don't need guns in the hands of rioters for them to cause damage. Molotov cocktails are good enough too.
The only way now is for the CE to declare martial law and that will clear up the streets and expel the foreigners involved in this. They may just may be able to control this without shooting everything in sight.

It's destroying lives when you can't get to work as the roads are blocked by rioting and the train stations are wrecked. The economy is dying as no one is traveling to HK and HK is a trading city and without the influx of the foreigners, mainly from mainland China HK is dead.
This has nothing to do with freedom as they still have at least 29 odd years for the one country two system to expire.
China if they want to can walk into HK during one afternoon but so far they have let HK government deal with it but it may not be so soon if this goes on.
Then you can see reality between HK police and Chinese Police.
It's very well for people to pontificate without knowing what is happening on the ground and getting emotional. At least try to understand the history and facts on the ground.
 

Cal?

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What heroes? They have different laws to China. HK is not mainland China as per the laws are . concerned. It is called one country two system. The judges are independent and though the CE has to be ratified by the Mainland government the CE is also elected by the HK people. HK is part of China. It will always be no matter what some people in the west scream about it. This is the reality of this world.
The HK police have been restraint. I have seen many riots in many countries and you don't need guns in the hands of rioters for them to cause damage. Molotov cocktails are good enough too.
The only way now is for the CE to declare martial law and that will clear up the streets and expel the foreigners involved in this. They may just may be able to control this without shooting everything in sight.

It's destroying lives when you can't get to work as the roads are blocked by rioting and the train stations are wrecked. The economy is dying as no one is traveling to HK and HK is a trading city and without the influx of the foreigners, mainly from mainland China HK is dead.
This has nothing to do with freedom as they still have at least 29 odd years for the one country two system to expire.
China if they want to can walk into HK during one afternoon but so far they have let HK government deal with it but it may not be so soon if this goes on.
Then you can see reality between HK police and Chinese Police.
It's very well for people to pontificate without knowing what is happening on the ground and getting emotional. At least try to understand the history and facts on the ground.
What the hell are you talking about? I live in Hong Kong, so I think I know what I'm talking about much better than you. :rolleyes:
 

Foxbatt

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So I guess you are a rioter? Only an idiot or a rioter would support what is going on in HK now.
 

11101

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So I guess you are a rioter? Only an idiot or a rioter would support what is going on in HK now.
I don't know a single person from all the time i lived there who doesn't support what's going on right now. You won't get this from the occasional business trip, but they are fighting for their lives as they know it.
 

maniak

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So I guess you are a rioter? Only an idiot or a rioter would support what is going on in HK now.
People fighting for their freedom? I personally support them everywhere, I don't care if they're in HK, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Cuba or whatever. I don't personally chose who are freedom loving people or who are rioting vandals based on the personal sympathy I may have for the ideology of their oppressors.
 

Nucks

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Right, let's just use the country with the highest number of guns in the world or some totalitarian regime as examples. :houllier:

They won't declare an emergency, the CCP have too much to lose if the US reviews the HK Act.
What do you think the US will do here? Nothing. The US doesn't want any sort of escalation or armed conflict with China. That would actually encourage, or even mandate, a realization of Chinese military potential.
 

Cal?

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So I guess you are a rioter? Only an idiot or a rioter would support what is going on in HK now.
On the contrary, if you look at any polls from HK, you'd see basically only CCP loving idiots support the government.
 

Foxbatt

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Then get more supporters in the LegCo. Change the voting rules. It's the Pan Dems who opposed to change it because they lose their power. Why not have one person one vote for the LegCo?
No matter what anyone says HK is a part of China. They may have a brutal government but that doesn't mean HK is a part of China.
 

Cal?

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Then get more supporters in the LegCo. Change the voting rules. It's the Pan Dems who opposed to change it because they lose their power. Why not have one person one vote for the LegCo?
No matter what anyone says HK is a part of China. They may have a brutal government but that doesn't mean HK is a part of China.
Where have you seen people deny that? Which of the 5 demands has anything remotely resembling independence?

The reason why the Legco voting can’t be changed is because the functional constituency seats are mostly controlled by the CCP and nothing can be changed without their say so