and his numbers in terms of goals and assists tell their own story
How much are injuries affecting us?
- Thread starter Le Red
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Do you think Liverpool would have won every game with both fullbacks and Mane missing?
Do you think Leicester would be as high in the table with Chilwell, Pereira, Maddison and Vardy missing most games?
You are right we aren't even that good with our first XI (i'd say around 6th) but it still does make a difference if half of them are missing.
This is a very desperate excuse thread.
Martial was dropped last season and Rashford was our undisputed No 9 under Ole. Now suddenly Martial is integral and having to rely on Rashford is impacting Ole?
Pogba is a loss obviously but its not like he's not played all season. We've had plenty of our squad available most of the season bar the Newcastle game where our squad was still better than theirs.
Martial was dropped last season and Rashford was our undisputed No 9 under Ole. Now suddenly Martial is integral and having to rely on Rashford is impacting Ole?
Pogba is a loss obviously but its not like he's not played all season. We've had plenty of our squad available most of the season bar the Newcastle game where our squad was still better than theirs.
Yes that sounds about right. Instead we hire a manager who yet again can’t improve players and is even worse than the manager we had. But we still finished 4 points from 3rd. Now we are 2 point off relegation. Explain that to me? Injures, crap players? We’ve lost 3 players 1 who didn’t even play and brought a better defence ‘apparently’. So What has gone wrong?
So why we blaming injures? Clearly they are all rubbish fit or not.
When you leave the squad depleted, in a long season with Europa league football on artificial pitches, then it’s stupid to blame injuries.
AWB has played in 6 of our 8 Premier League matches. I know that you think it makes your argument look better to continue to falsely claim that we have been missing both fullbacks all season but we haven't. It's just not true.
I didn't realise the season finished today. If you want to play that game we were 8 points from top 4 when Ole took charge but finished only 5 behind. How do you explain that one?
The defence is better when all are fit it's barely a debate. What has gone wrong is we sold Lukaku without replacing him and banked on Martial to stay fit which he managed for 3 games. It was stupid in hindsight but that's the main explanation for us struggling to score goals.
We'll never agree on the quality of the squad because you think most would start for City.
I never said otherwise but OK.
What should replacing Lukaku have to do with anything. The only reason he’s not here is because the manager didn’t want him. So he’s got what he wanted a replacement would have been a bench players like I.e Mandzukic. So our season relied on a super sub. The irony.
Like I said.. we can still make top 4 if he goes.
What the hell happened to Martial? Last seen limping like Jones against Crystal Palace. Live his injury didn't seem that bad but obviously it was as he's been missing ever since. What injury did he even get? 
They wouldn't be sub, they would be starting up front because Martial is constantly injured. If Mane gets injured for nearly 2 months does their season 'rely on' Origi?
Top 4 with Rashford, James, Mata, Lingard and Pereira as the attacking options. It will be some manager that gets top 4 with that.
What are you talking about. You’ve just proved your own point. If Mane or Salah get injured they have Origi. But no one will he saying Liverpool can’t get top four because of it. Why? Because managers that are good can get to champions league finals with Milner playing left back for a full season. Similar to how a good manager can get second with Ashley Young at left back.
blaming injuries? maybe you are jumping the gun here? are you saying injuries haven't had impact?
Martisl had 2 for 2 in that new role before injury. No one in midfield puts up the numbers that Pogba does and I think it's fair enough to say that Wan Bissaka has been a big loss too
Obviously there are other factors (Ole's lack of ability to get the team playing + weak squad) but it's certainly had a big impact
But we are lacking goals. We are talking about goals. AWB if rubbish in the attack his replacement is far better. Martial will be criticised as soon as he comes back as he can’t play with out of form players, which has been proven.
Pogba is creative when we play him further up he’ll be back playing in this double pivot. So how are we scoring goals and how is the injury ‘crisis’ an excuse?
They are going for the title. Having Mane injured would affect that, just getting top 4 is different.
We are a top 6 side hoping to get top 4. We have more chance if we have no injuries. Why are you trying to argue otherwise?
IF, and it’s a big IF, we had managed to keep Pogba and Martial fit, I believe we would likely have maybe 3-5 more points
So would we be challenging? No....but likely to be closer to top four
So would we be challenging? No....but likely to be closer to top four
So because we have injures i have to accept we are a bottom half side? That doesn’t sit with me. Even without Pogba and Martial we are a top 6 side. With them we are top 3.
I agree. Without injuries on key players, we're not a terrible team. Top 4 material for sure(though still far behind City and Liverpool).
what's this excuse stuff you are talking about? are you creating debates in your head?
the thread title is how much are injuries are affecting us.
When you lose your most talented striker and most creative midfielder of course it's going to have a huge impact especially when your squad is as light on numbers and quality as ours is
So injuries do affect us like the thread asks? You've said it yourself there with Martial and Pogba missing it affects us by 2-3 positions (3rd - 6th). The difference is you see us as the 3rd best team who would have most of the team starting for City, i don't.
Yes if you want to beat Liverpool. We lost to Newcastle. It’s not excuse and never should be. But let’s keep this up. We’ve played no-one hard during this injury run. No one.
So no matter how many injuries we have it can never be an excuse? You just sound delusional about how good we actually are.
We are closer to Everton level than Man City, that's the reality despite you thinking Mata is better than Bernardo Silva. If Everton have 5/6 of their best 11 injured you wouldn't expect them to go away to Newcastle and win.
Do you know where Everton are in the league. Probably not..
Yes let’s create a scenario where we create a debate of how many injures does it take for it to be an excuse for a club. If that’s the case LVG should never be critised he use to have a first 11 injured at one stage.
Of course injuries have played a part. But it's the manager who has put the team in this position.
You simply cannot sell your top scorer and not replace him and still think it's alright with the squad. You can't sell your bruiser without replacing him and think it's alright we don't need him.
In any other circumstances he would have been sacked on the spot for negligence.
This is not a corner shop. This is Manchester United we are talking about.
I saw this happen when Giggs took over from Moyes. He played to the gallery and immediately dropped Fellaini. LVG comes in and brings him back. Jose brought him in too.
Football is never one style. You have to adapt. When Ole came in and dropped Lukaku, it is telling Lukaku that he is not needed. It was the same for Fellaini. I have no issues with selling both of them. I have huge issues of not replacing them with better players.
I also don't accept the excuse that he is waiting for certain players. Those certain players are not going to come to play for Manchester United and coached by Ole.
You simply cannot sell your top scorer and not replace him and still think it's alright with the squad. You can't sell your bruiser without replacing him and think it's alright we don't need him.
In any other circumstances he would have been sacked on the spot for negligence.
This is not a corner shop. This is Manchester United we are talking about.
I saw this happen when Giggs took over from Moyes. He played to the gallery and immediately dropped Fellaini. LVG comes in and brings him back. Jose brought him in too.
Football is never one style. You have to adapt. When Ole came in and dropped Lukaku, it is telling Lukaku that he is not needed. It was the same for Fellaini. I have no issues with selling both of them. I have huge issues of not replacing them with better players.
I also don't accept the excuse that he is waiting for certain players. Those certain players are not going to come to play for Manchester United and coached by Ole.
I do know where Everton are in the league (again, after 8 games). What does that prove?
Taking a Punt in the Transfer Market - I think this is how SAF described some of his transfers. In his first 18 years SAF had a lot of success 'taking a punt'. He brought in legions of players cheaply, who performed magnificently and gave the club great service. Towards the end of his reign (last 7 years), SAF punts did less well; and were basically failures.
SAF also made huge blunders in the transfer market. Namely: Anderson, and Veron, and, possibly, Hargreaves. But only a few. These blunders made no lasting damage and were worth the price of success.
All this time, failed punts rarely made it past their second season. That's the big difference in the last 6 years. Today's failures and pitch invaders linger on at O.T. on massive wages.
Talk to fans, and it's always about which players United need to buy. Hardly every about moving on the under performers. Now we have half a squad of under performers. When injuries strike, the team lose. That's the cost of not clearing out the deadwood. Something Mounrinho should've done. Whether you take a few punts, or not, you must be brutal sending passengers, pitch invaders, and coasters on their way. If they're not MUQ - they need to leave.
SAF also made huge blunders in the transfer market. Namely: Anderson, and Veron, and, possibly, Hargreaves. But only a few. These blunders made no lasting damage and were worth the price of success.
All this time, failed punts rarely made it past their second season. That's the big difference in the last 6 years. Today's failures and pitch invaders linger on at O.T. on massive wages.
Talk to fans, and it's always about which players United need to buy. Hardly every about moving on the under performers. Now we have half a squad of under performers. When injuries strike, the team lose. That's the cost of not clearing out the deadwood. Something Mounrinho should've done. Whether you take a few punts, or not, you must be brutal sending passengers, pitch invaders, and coasters on their way. If they're not MUQ - they need to leave.
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Martial was hobbling around injured for like the last 30 mins as well.
Injury is not causing Ole to be a shi* coach.
Injuries are not an excuse, but they really highlight how amazingly thin our squad is. We lose our two best creative/goalscoring players and anyone can stick a fork in us because we're done. Injuries should always be accounted for because we know they happen.
I don't think injuries are an excuse for Ole's coaching skills but fans on here who think injuries has not had an impact must be naive.
When you have worked a pre season with Rashford-Martial-Pogba-James and patterns of play. We saw in the early games we did create a few chances.
Then when you go into games with different injuries, with players out of position etc.
Ole worked on a system with Shaw and AWb int he team who could keep the ball alot better than Young, Rojo and Dalot.
Shaw and Rashford as a LW combination
AWB and James as a RW combination
It is not easy to work on combinations with players for 1 off games. This is why City / Liverpool do so well.
When you have worked a pre season with Rashford-Martial-Pogba-James and patterns of play. We saw in the early games we did create a few chances.
Then when you go into games with different injuries, with players out of position etc.
Ole worked on a system with Shaw and AWb int he team who could keep the ball alot better than Young, Rojo and Dalot.
Shaw and Rashford as a LW combination
AWB and James as a RW combination
It is not easy to work on combinations with players for 1 off games. This is why City / Liverpool do so well.
Good analysis by Michael Cox in The Athletic showing as we expected that the midfield isn't good enough and Fred is a complete flop.
https://theathletic.com/1284650/201.../?amp=undefined#click=https://t.co/R29tOq5vCB
He has also show that United have been much, much better with Pogba and Martial in the team in terms of chance creation. So yes injuries are clearly affecting United and the team should pick up if everyone gets back to the level of top 6 team pushing top 4.
The fact that they are in position is another question. Why the replacements for Martial and Pogba are so substandard first of all and second of all how there are so many injuries after an entire summer where all that was talked about was how much running was done, which suggests overtraining.
Overtraining + thin squad + Europa League football was a crazy idea.
https://theathletic.com/1284650/201.../?amp=undefined#click=https://t.co/R29tOq5vCB
He has also show that United have been much, much better with Pogba and Martial in the team in terms of chance creation. So yes injuries are clearly affecting United and the team should pick up if everyone gets back to the level of top 6 team pushing top 4.
The fact that they are in position is another question. Why the replacements for Martial and Pogba are so substandard first of all and second of all how there are so many injuries after an entire summer where all that was talked about was how much running was done, which suggests overtraining.
Overtraining + thin squad + Europa League football was a crazy idea.
Interesting article. Points out how poor Mata has been (if it was wasn't obvious)? We've never replaced Carrick in midfield for playing passes through the lines, we always looked better with him in the team.
A fit Pogba, Martial, Shaw and Wan-Bissaka would make us a lot better, no doubt about it.
Yeah, because we were so good versus Palace.
But they were quite good against Palace. United missed a penalty, should have clearly had another penalty...then conceded a last minute goal when they pushed everyone forward for the win where De Gea made a howler. Very unlucky and not representative of the game at all, they created plenty of chances. The difference between Palace game and last 4-5 games has been massive, where United have been quite toothless and haven't deserved any better results.
They really weren't. We didn't create much at all from open play. There's only so many penalties we can fight for. We were passing it around aimlessly but weren't cutting through them near as enough.
Mane is their dangerman this season so hopefully AWB is fit to start
They're affecting us badly.
However, we all knew this would happen. Our injury track record is absolutely appalling and this happens every single season without fail. The fact that the management team didn't take this into account when leaving our squad so thin is on nobody but them.
However, we all knew this would happen. Our injury track record is absolutely appalling and this happens every single season without fail. The fact that the management team didn't take this into account when leaving our squad so thin is on nobody but them.
Badly. Just imagine Leicester without Vardy & Maddison/Tielemans, Liverpool without Salah & Mane, Tottenham without Son & Kane, Arsenal without Aubameyang & Lacazatte.
At the end of the day we are not Man City with massive money that we can buy 5 players in one window during rebuilding process.
At the end of the day we are not Man City with massive money that we can buy 5 players in one window during rebuilding process.